Richard

That is a curious problem. When people make pancakes etc., they generally measure the ingredients. If they looked at the directions on the 10-30-10, they would likely find 1-teaspoon per gallon of water, whereas with the 1-3-1 it would be about 1/4 cup per plant. Either would deliver the same nutrient content, and neither would provide a risk of over-dosing.

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tommyg

Richard feel free to start your own thread on your topic. I would like to continue discussing kumquats and meyer lemons on this one.
Jananas your fruit plants are awesome. Im not skilled enough to grow from seed. Feel free to post more pics as they get bigger.
Im hoping my meyer lemon tree buds continue to grow well and open soon.

T

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Richard

Yes, we are all discussing containerized citrus here. The last post was regarding Lisa's (fmu65) question on fertilizer concentrations. Her other question was:

For references, I would point you at a succession of textbooks and research papers. However, there is a course taught on Citrus at UCR which is available through extension. Our very own member here GoAngels recently took this course so perhaps he can point you at the course materials.

The two main challenges in growing citrus and other fruiting trees indoors are: (1) supplying enough energy via light in the correct spectrum to the plant -- think of the leaves as solar panels, and (2) getting supplying enough potash in relation to nitrogen so that the plant can "service" the fruit.

For light you need between 55 watts/sq.ft. to 75 watts/sq.ft. in the 6500 Kelvin spectrum for a period greater than 7 hours per day. 9 hrs per day is sufficient. Hopefully you have some natural sunlight enveloping the plant and a very cheap light meter that measures watts (not lumens) can tell you what the contribution is. Then of course you need to make up the difference with supplemental lighting: the CF65K (compact fluorescent 6500 Kelvin) bulbs work well as do a bank of 4-foot 6500K fluorescent bulbs.

For nutrients, you would like the nitrogen (N) to potash (K) ratio to be about 1 N to 2/3 K, and the phosphate (P) to be the lowest. There are many fertilizer products in all shapes, types, and sizes from many suppliers that do this. These formulas are all examples: 3-1-2, 6-2-4, 9-3-6. If you walk into a big box store you'll likely see (among other things) an organic Citrus food that is 8-6-8 and an organic Palm food that is 8-4-8. Well, the first one is a little high in P, but the second is a pretty good choice. It's a bit more K than the plant will use but at least it meets the plants need. In the water-solubles you will see 20-10-15 which again is not quite the 1 to 2/3 ratio, but pretty darn close.

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iz

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iz

fmu65

I would like to also take responsibility for having taken us a bit off topic here and I apologize. In my citrus news- my Meyer lemons are still doing well and haven't dropped the fruit! Will post pics soon, and hope to see everyone else's pics as well!

harveyc

By the way, I've heard a few times that the best-tasting kumquat is Meiwa. I haven't tried it yet and want to give it a try. Centennial tastes pretty good and is a very attractive variegated form.

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Richard

Among my customers, I have found that the American/European palette prefers Nagami, while the tropical Asian palette prefers Meiwa.

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harveyc

I've got Nordman which is like Nagami, but seedless. Probably will be a year or two before it fruits.

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Richard

It's awesome.

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venturabananas

Meiwa is good. If you like the sour flesh of Nagami, you might not love it. It is sweeter, with very little juice/flesh at all. At least that's my limited experience.

Slightly off topic, I had a taste test with Oro Blanco and Melogold pummelo hybrids today. Both were very good. I liked Melogold's texture and thinner skin, but would probably give Oro Blanco the nod for flavor -- it had a bit less bitterness. Neither is very sour, due to their acidless pummelo parent.

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Yug

I have something called an "Improved Myer Lemon", although I couldn't tell you what that improvement might be - for that matter, I'm not even sure what a "Myer Lemon" is like either.

I read somewhere that they bred a lemon with something else to get the Myer and Improved Myer types. The fruit is a little more roundish than what I see in the stores, and I believe these are less acidic. I think you can use these when they are still slightly green, too. The blooms smell great, and are mostly white with lavendar streaks. If there is a cluster of blooms, I generally don't allow more than 3 to make fruit. It is rather prolific, so I don't want to overtax the plant with too much fruit. At present the plant is about 5 ft high.

venturabananas

Meyer lemons are a lemon-mandarin hybrid, and so are sweeter than regular lemons and have a hint of mandarin. The peel is tasty, too, at least to me. The only difference between "improved" and regular is resistance to some virus. I love them, grew up with them.

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Richard

The Meyer lemon is a naturally occurring stable hybrid between Lemon and Orange discovered in south-east Asia decades ago. Initially its parentage was debated as either a species or hybrid. After the details were worked out, the patented "Improved Meyer" was developed in a breeding program. It is unclear whether any of the original Meyer is present in U.S. nursery stock since the major U.S. growers all graft from mother trees of "Improved Meyer".

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fmu65

While testing the soil for my Meyer lemon, I accidentally knocked one off! now there are only two, but the are going strong. And yes, the soil was way too high in nitrogen. Ugh. Could that explain why it dropped most of its fruit initially?

harveyc

The Improved Meyer is the same as Meyer. They just cleaned it up (removed virus) and that was the "improved" part.

My mother-in-law made a nice marmalade with it but I otherwise didn't care for it. When I want a lemon I want the real thing. I removed the one that was here when I bought my place since it was in the way of a project.

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Yug

Well, getting rid of a virus is certainly an improvement in my book. The only other citrus I grow is called Kalamansi by local Filipinos, and I'm not sure what that equates to. I've heard it called a lime, but it eventually gets orange on the outside, usually 2 in or smaller, and stays pretty sour.

Richard

For citrus to grow fruit to maturity (a) the roots need to have sufficient stores of potash to produce carbohydrates, cell structure, etc., (b) the root system needs to be mature enough to deliver sustenance to the fruits, and (c) leaves of the plant need to be receiving enough power in the form of light to photosynthesize so the plant can function. For indoor plants, the total of all sources of light should work out to at least 55 watts/sq.ft. with a 6500K spectrum. Further, even if all of these criteria are met, an over-abundance of nitrogen can cause fruit drop. An over-abundance would mean a ratio of N to K way beyond 3 to 2, or simply bad timing: applying a high-nitrogen fertilizer (e.g., fish emulsion) during early stages of fruit formation.

Lisa, if the fruit dropped off just by casual bumping of the plant then my guess that situation is a combination of a,b,c and not just timing of fertilizer.

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venturabananas

Yug, Kalamansi is Calamondin.

Harvey, try Meyer Lemon squeezed in club soda and drop the peel in to get the flavor of the oils. Really good and refreshing.

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Richard

For my tastes, I think it is good in this role -- but sweet lemon is even better. For lemon zest, the rind of Eureka or Lisbon is hard to beat. Again, that's just my finicky tastes

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harveyc

I bought a Centennial kumquat the other day because I like the way it looks. At Riverside it's reported to have ripe fruit year-round. The fruit I've tried are okay.

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