beam2050

it has been 7 months since I posted this picture of 3 Sumatrana x and 3 zebrina rojo. I lost all of them. and a maureli. I lost NO other tc, just the variegated ones, NONE. now I have read posts of people who had the same problems with variegated tc's. the first ones to die, after 3 months, were the Sumatrana x plus 2 of the zebrina but the zebrinas came back. all my my tc's were wintered on the dining room table, south side of the house lots of windows and plenty of morning and afternoon light. I left the dead plants in their pots on the dining room table and after about 3 weeks the zebrina came back. then after about 2 months later the 2 that came back died again and the 3rd died about a week later.
all the tcs were treated almost identical. I used a water meter and watered when they were very dry, giving them about 1 shot glass of water each time. but every time I watered the variegated they stopped. did not do any thing for weeks at a time. over watered you say. yep BUT HOW. well after some time I dug the first zebrina that kicked the bucket out of its pot and discovered the problem.

I had planted the tc's in 6 inch pots. well while the potting soil I put in was bone dry the medium they were shipped in was very wet. they were shipped in 2 inch square pots and had no roots sticking out of the soil.

ok here is a pic taken today after I dug the last 2 up today. my potting soil is almost desert dry and these are still moist.



YOU tell me. I am thinking that my potting soil did not match theirs and mine was not sucking the water away from their medium. now when I watered I watered mainly the center while still trying to water the whole pot. even so the soil in the pot was laid flat and water might still be going to the center which was to their soil. and their potting soil while having the ability to hold water longer also took it in more readily. I am not sure I am being very clear on all this. everything I am going to say now is purely conjecture and subject to scrutiny.

anything I say from here on I believe not only applies to the variegated but would also include all tc's from most any source.

now for another pic. in this picture I broke up the left one dry and soaked the other in water for a time and then broke it up. with this I would like to simulate the first course of thinking, breaking up their medium before planting in a pot. now you might think of leaving the tc to air dry before putting it in a pot, but I do not think this is an option. the reasoning in this is any roots sticking out of their medium is going to dry out and die also. many of the tc's I have received have had the roots sticking out of the medium and some of them substantially. I have since replace the sumatrana x with 2 and both of them were approximately 14 inches in p-stem length. I have had them about 2 months and they are thriving out in the rain.

back to the pic. this again is a simulation not plants newly received from say wellspring gardens. probably all the fine roots have rooted away and there is less holding them together. the one on the right was harder to break apart. and I know with a live plant it is worse. this was unscientific but about the same amount of effort.



my NOT proven hypothesis would be to not JUST throw the plant in potting soil and water. but to put the potting soil in the pot, then water while also packing it down. water enough so that water comes out the bottom of the pot. then after it has sufficiently drained dig the pot out enough so the plant can be installed at the right level. quickly bust up the medium of the plant and set it in the pot and pack it all down again. pack down the edges of the pot so water tends to go to the outside but do not water again. do not water again for at least 2 weeks to a month, hopefully the plant has survived its ordeal and by now shows signs of growth. from there on it would be BY GUESS AND BY GOLLY.

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npk of wood ash 0/1/3 to 0/3/7

npk of banana leaf ash 1.75/0.75/0.5

Mark Anthony Phair

Hi there!

In my experience of growing bananas since the early 1970s, I have found that bananas with white or light (olive-green) leaves (Ae-Ae) are devoid of the chlorophyll that also acts as a deterrent to sunburn, much like melanin protecting from sun cancer in humans. They should ALWAYS be planted with some shade cover---strong filtered light. In a greenhouse this would not be necessary...

Kindest regards,

Mark Anthony Phair

PS:Bananas around the world (particularly commercial growing areas in the Equatorial regions are under severe attack from several deadly and highly contagious diseases. Be sure that stock purchased is from certified disease-free stock. Digging up a corm in the wild may result in the introduction of these diseases to your clean stock. BEWARE!

edwmax

I basically agree, ... however ... root rot or the fungus that cause root rot, can cause this too. The fungus will draw water to the roots for itself from the soil or if the soil is dry, from the plant. The result will be exactly as you described.

I've had the exact same situation with larger corms in 12 dim pots. The difference here was: no soil was on the corm when place into the pot. This was why I bought a water meter to use checking the potted plants: outside, of the pot top, middle, and bottom; 1/3rd the way in, top, middle, and bottom; and then directly into or against the root ball.

Dry potting soil to the outside and wet root balls indicates a problem. Most likely Root Rot.

I had 3 or 4 corms that were cleaned (including cutting away soft back parts), treated and repotted several times. I still lost the corms to rot even tho the corm did regrow new roots after each treatment.

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Tytaylor77

What I would recommend is immediately when getting these tiny tc pots get shipped to you is immediencly repot them into larger small pot with 50/50 mix of perlite. Maybe a 1/2 gal pot. When you are trying to control moisture in those tiny tiny pots it is very hard. In a larger say 1/2 gal pot the moisture would be controlled much better. The larger amount of soil will stabilize and you won't have wet and dry spots. Instead the soil will absorb the wet spot and be much better. 2nd don't go by moisture meters 100% a good tactic is to water them once per 7 days. If you really wanna know gently dig down with your finger and look for moisture.

The pot is so small the air is drying the outer part of the pot leaving a dry but the center still wet. The larger pot/more soil volume would absorb the inner wet area into its dry soil.

I would never try to break apart the TC rootball it would almost for sure kill the TC plant. I also find fertilizing TC plants does more harm than good. There is plenty in the soil to feed them unlit they get more roots and a few weeks older.

On corms it is very very risky potting up a rootless corm in any soil or soilless mix. They use no water since there is no roots. Using no water can root them very easy! Instead coarse sand works way better. It doesn't stick to the corm causing rot. And it doesn't hold hardly any moisture to cause rot. It drains extremely fast and creates the perfect environment for root development. Try it! Every 7 days check for roots. Spray the water as you pull the corm up and check for roots. Be careful not to damage New roots! When you have some roots showing then pot it up in 50/50 mix potting soil and perlite!

I have tried every method you can think of and my methods above work by far the best! I DO NOT use coarse sand in the ground or deffently not in pots! But for rooting corms there is nothing even close!

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edwmax

Beam can answer for himself, but from my reading he used larger pots exactly as you described.

As for my Corms, they were not rootless. Further the corms did grow new roots each time it was repotted until root-rot set in again. At the last repot the pstem (2 plants) had died back to the corm, That repot was in 100% course builders sand. The both corms came back with a new pstem and both grew pups which I have reotted. The greenhouse got too hot so the potted nanas were move to a shaded area under larger nana plants at the 1st of May.

By the end of May the the 2 mother nanas had died back again to the corm. I check the first of this week, both corm are gone/rotted. But I have two healthy growing pups and all 5 potted nana plants, other than the dead 2, are doing & growing great.

I think those 2 plants/pstems were at the end of their multi-year life cycle even thou they had never flowered. The pups were save by repotting to kept the rot from attacking their roots.

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Tytaylor77

I saw him showing the final dead plants in the small cube like he smashed so I was thinking he grew them in the tiny starter plug pot. Because there is dead roots/plants in those tiny plug pots in the pictures above.

Root rot mostly can only occur if your:
1- not well draining soil/pot
2 - overwatering

It took me one entire growing season to figure out bananas LOVE perlite! A 50/50 mix of perlite and a decent potting soil works so well! I also find cheap black nursery pots work by far best. They offer excellent drainage.

Perlite keeps the soil very light and fluffy so it will drain fast! It is also way harder to overwater. You still can and I bet 70%+ of dead bananas in pots is due to either not well draining soil or overwatering or both.

Not saying that's what caused yours. I'm just trying to give useful info and help everyone! Sounds like part of your trouble was during winter and strange things can happen during winter. Bananas do not like winter. Even in a greenhouse. Some dislike it way more than others.

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beam2050

will fungus kill slowly, can it take its time like 6 months?

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npk of wood ash 0/1/3 to 0/3/7

npk of banana leaf ash 1.75/0.75/0.5

beam2050

yes I had them in 6 inch pots as soon as they arrived. if you look at the second picture those came out of the pot like that after 7 months of watering. kinda don't figure they should have done that. they died 3 or 4 weeks ago so they were not watered for better than a month but still wet while the surrounding soil is dry. they were kept in the porch where they could not get wet.

I have 24 living tc's right now 18 of which went thru the winter just fine.

thank you all for your help you did come up with some good points.

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npk of wood ash 0/1/3 to 0/3/7

npk of banana leaf ash 1.75/0.75/0.5

edwmax

That is my point. The fungus is a parasite and like a sponge will draw water & nutrients from the plant & corm when the soil is dry. Thus causing a very slow death to the plant.

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edwmax

Yes, and it depends of the size of the host plant, weeks to several months.

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edwmax

So you didn't read his post.

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edwmax

ALL my pots are very well draining and I do add perlite to commercial potting soil mix. However, I will be changing to a course composted pinebark for potting mix. I can buy it at the manufacturer's plant for $20 / yard. Pine bark don't hold water, only what sticks on surface contact just like course sand.

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edwmax

Just as a note & info. When I repotted these plant/corms, I cleaned the corm removing all black/soft spots & dead roots ( good roots were left on the corm); and wash with a strong bleach water to kill any fungus & infections. The 2 problem corms I believe the infection had penetrated deeply into the tissue and thus came back after a little time as the bleach wash only kills surface infections. This little time let the corm grow new roots and a pup or two.

Also, for the last repots I put soil mix in the lower haft of the (12") pot and then packed the plant/corm in sand in the upper part of the pot. This was to kept air to the corm and try to prevent wet root balls. When the roots start growing, they can then growing into the soil at the bottom. I have 5 potted plants that are doing very well with this. AND, my troubled GM TC (the only TC out of 6 that lived) has suddenly started growing with this potting method. It's about 2 ft in a month.

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