Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

Is potassium sulfate a good product to have on hand for banana plants? Or is it simply to high of a number? :2722:

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

The number is concentration in percentage by weight. It is an inexpensive source of potash if you are making your own fertilizer.

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

Thank you Richard ! I know bananas need a lot of potassium so I thought I might keep some on hand just in case of a deficiency, or maybe use as a supplement.

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

As in all nutrients, there are limits. For a banana plant past the juvenile stage, it's not going to utilize much more than net 1.5 lbs potash per year -- and somewhere above that level (perhaps double) it will suffer from potassium phytotoxicity and die. In terms of K2SO4 (potassium sulfate): net 1.5 lbs/yr potash is gross 3 lbs/yr.

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

You have a lot of knowledge concerning plant nutrients, that is an area I need to study more. It is very interesting, but I'm not about to even try quantum mechanics! Lol :ha:I'll keep what you said in mind. A little can go a long ways when it comes to nutrition.

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

Sounds like I'm doing it backwards. I've been giving juvenile plants 1/2 dose and adult plants full dose. Sounds like the young ones need a hotter dose. This is what I hate about the internet, ask 1 question and get 27 opinions and your lucky if 10% are remotely right

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

No.

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

Gotta love Missouri! Tornado time!! And I was sleeping so good. Just hope my fellow Missourians make it through ok.

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

I have a product at work called potassium magnesium sulfate. Sulfur 22 percent potassium 18 percent and magnesium 11 percent. Would this be good for make part of a fertilizer?

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

BTW thank you Olafhenny ! I appreciate the information you shared earlier.

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

Yes, that is commonly called Sul-Po-Mag and used in the design of some "complete" commercial fertilizers. Here is a blurb I wrote a while back on care of fruit trees. Check the "Feeding" section for some hints on designing your own: Fruit Tree Care & Feeding

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

Olafhenny
Were i live its is difficult to buy fertilizers because I stay in a remote area.
In South Africa in general i have not been able to find 10:10:10 or 19:19:19, or any balanced fertilizer, after months of searching. Best I can get is 3:1:5 or 3:2:3 etc. So I have been thinking of buying bulk bags from a farmers co op and mixing my own. For example the local farmers co op has Potash and ammonium sulphate & Potassium sulfate in 25kg bags, I just don't know how to combine them. Would mind you sharing what you mix, i.e. what are the bulk N:P:K products you mix.
Also are you mixing granular or water soluble?

what is the source of the 0-45-0 ? And what would be a N source (e.g. 40-0-0 )?

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

Ammonium sulphate has 21% nitrogen. But, the 24% sulphate (sulfur) would likely be a problem as it would cause a high acidic condition. ... Use Ammonium nitrate, urea, or may be composted chicken manure for a nitrogen source.

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

Urea (46-0-0) would be a good, cheap, nitrogen source to use in combination with potassium sulphate. I would apply each separately i.e. no mixing, unless you have a big plantation and then it would make sense to combine to save application time. Just use the appropriate application rate.

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

Great thanks for the replies!

N: urea [CH4N2O] (46-0-0)
P:????
K: potassium sulphate (K2SO4) (0-0-50-18S)

What is a cheap bulk source of phosphate?

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

You need to locate fertilizer base stock material which available to you in South Africa. ... See this refference for how to calculate fertilizer formations and base fertilizers to use in the blends. ref: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...LVona4Cnu8W6BT

Also, this reference gives basic blend formulas & amounts. ref: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...COk70FlcsPBKVp

Both above reference list fertilizer stock materials needed or to use in making a blend formulation. ... Don't forget the micro elements needed! ... And, be careful using urea as it is not comparable with some fertilizer types.

The second reference shown above using 7 basic fertilizers (raw materials) gives the many different blends that can be formulated and the weight of each base fertilizer required.

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

Thanks for the tables, very useful and include examples.

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

There is no need for you to buy N, P, and K separately. There are farm suppliers in South Africa that sell fertilizer mixes suitable for bananas -- for example 20-10-30 including micronutrients. Look for a store that sells the USA-made Grow More products or the Israel-made ICL/Haifa products, typically water-soluble in 10 or 20 kg bags.

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

Thanks for the advice Richard.
Unfortunately the growmore in South Africa is not related to the USA products in any way, and only sell 3-1-5 ; 2-3-2; etc.
I found a SA supplier of Haifa products, but they are over 1000 km away from me. I will inquire if they have a distributor in my area.

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

Actually the owner and vice president of marketing of Grow More Inc. are colleagues of mine -- the latter I grew up with elementary through high school. They do have a sales presence in South Africa ... but I understand that a farm supplier that carries their products could be far from you.

But no worries -- I think you understand the kind of product I'm referring to: water-soluble fertilizer with major, minor, and micro nutrients. I also think you know that the numbers on the bag are percentages by weight -- so the higher the better because each dosage will be less. Of course the numbers on a bag will never add up over 100 because we're talking about percentages, and due to chemical properties of minerals they'll rarely add over 60%. Now specifically for bananas you'd like the N:P:K ratios at 4:1:6 -- for example 16-4-24 -- but you will probably not find it because (1) it is difficult to make and (2) in low demand. Now 20-10-20 is a popular formula available from many factories and reasonably close to the optimum. The Citrus growers in northern South Africa use it so perhaps you'll find it. Another formula that Grow More makes but sold only in pallet quantities of 10 kg bags is 16-8-24 "Fruit Fuel" -- sold to some pit fruit growers in central South Africa on an annual basis.

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

Richard
You know more about fertilizer suppliers in SA than I do!

If you can let me know the contact details of Grow More Inc in South Africa I will contact them.
They may be far but there is always a way. Retired like yourself, I have the time and resources to fuel my passion. I have waited years to have the time to grow Bananas, so I wont give up easily.

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

Not really! I just know they ship there.

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

So could someone check my maths, these fraction / ratio calculations can be tricky for me.

I can get from the local farmers co op:
N: urea (46-0-0)
P: mono-ammonium phosphates (MAP) (10-50-0)
K: Sulfate of potash (0-0-50-18S)

If I am aiming at Richards suggested ratio of 4-1-6 and mix:

8.2 kg urea = 3.8kg nitrogen

2 kg MAP = 0.2kg nitrogen and 1 kg phosphate

12 kg potash = 6kg potassium

total weight of mix = 20.2 kg

In 20.2 kg I have 4kg N: 5kg P: 6kg K
Which is a (19.8)-(4.9)-(30) ratio , which is very close to 20-5-30, which is in the desired 4-1-6 ratio.

Have I done this calculation correctly??

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

Not bad, but you weight is off. It's 22.2 from your numbers. i calculate 22.48k, but this is rounding differences. NPk from the 'as blended' mix is 18-4.49-26.96 @ 22.48k

What this shows is the target wt. being less than the actual mix wt then the actual NPK is insufficient for target wt ... IF YOU were selling and guaranteeing the mix. But it is usable as is knowing the correct NPK ratio then weight quantity doesn't matter. The NPK ratio is the same for 5 lb or 50 k.

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

Using Urea (869.6 lb), DAP (217.4 lb), KCL (1000 lb) ... The closest i can get is 20-4.8-28.8 for 2087 lb batch, assuming standard analysis values. This will vary for the materials you can obtain and their actual analysis.

To scale down to a 50 lb batch (or 22.7k) multiply by .025; (50/2000 lb).

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

Thanks for the help Edwmax!

Now I need to know how much to apply to each tree at a time, and how frequently to maximize growth and more importantly fruit production.
I assume also the size of the tree makes a difference, i.e. knee high or near fruiting height (which for my trees is usually about 4 meters)

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

That's simple! See the forum wiki for more info about fertilizer.

Now a banana plant needs 1lb of nitrogen and 1 1/2 lb of potassium during the growing season. You decide how many times during the season to apply the fertilizer (monthly; bi-monthly; 3 or 4 time per season). However, the type fertilizer (slow release, quick release, or standard grade types) have some bearing to application timing.

Now I use 10-10-10 for vegetable gardens. It has all the minor elements needed and economical ($10 for 50 lb bag). Applied 4 Xs during the season. For Fertilizer amount: 1lb nitrogen / 10% (aka: 0.1) = 10 lbs fertilizer for the season per plant. The same 10 lbs also furnish 1 lb of potassium. Supplement additional 1/2 lb potassium needed with murate of potash or potassium sulfate. ... The application rate for the 10-10-10 is 10 lb / 4 applications = 2 1/2 lbs per plant per application. ... The extra phosphorous has not been detrimental to the plants.

This year i may try fertilizing on a monthly schedule at 1 1/2 lb 7 Xs for a 6 month growing season. This may reduce loss due to runoff & leaching.

Knowing the fertilizer grade (NPK) you can use any grade available and that is economical. ... But for your situation, blending your own mix may be the better option over buying the low grade 'hobby' fertilizers.

Check with your locale Co-Op for when they Blend or who Blends fertilizers for the local members. You might be able to get your years supply then ready mixed. The low grade 'hobby' mixes would be too labor intensive and expensive for large farm applications.

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

The size of the plant would make a little difference if the plant is very young. Less than 3 ft tall i cut the fertilizer amount to 1/4th or 1/2 that for a mature plant as the roots are in a smaller area at the base and apply the fertilizer in a 2ft or 3ft circle. ... 3 1/2 or 4 ft tall plant i apply full dose. Apply fertilizer in a 10 ft circle around the plant. Not at just the base. Roots can extend up to 15 ft or 18 ft from the mature plants. This will help to keep heavy applications from burning the roots.

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

That is very useful, many thanks.

The local farm co op sells the NPK as I mentioned but they don't contain any micro nutrients, should I worry about them?
My soil is very beach sand in nature because my proximity to the sea.

I will inquire if they do any blends for local farmers.

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

I just came back from Diamond R with a 50 lb bag of 6-3-16. Called the "Super Fruiter" it lasts for a full season with number of mats I currently run. This stuff is the best for naners.:08:

Now if the friggin H-canes leave me alone I'll get a full season of fruit bunches. Fingers crossed. :08:

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

How much of that do you apply per nana plant during the season?

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

I purchased an 8-2-12 fertilizer with micros recently locally at $25/50#. It uses K2O which some people don't like due to chlorine (<2%) and also has sulfur which could be a plus or minus depending on the situation. I think its actually marketed as a palm fertilizer.

Does this stuff look okay for the price?

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

Wow ... That's got some jacked up minors. About 4 Xs more than fruit fuel and 2 Xs more than the 10-10-10 I use ($10 for 50 lb). ... I think the price is a little high, but that's probably brand name.

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

Well ... may be your price for the 8-2-12 isn't so high. I just checked with a local manufacture their 8-2-12 Palm mix is $35.70 for 50 lb. Their label matches yours. I believe i will keep using the 10-10-10.

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

Thanks for the comment.

Last year I used urea and potassium sulfate augmented with st. Augustine clippings from the yard and had pretty good results. Thought I might need the minors and the price seemed attractive so picked up a few bags of this stuff. If it’s too high with minors and that might be a problem I can use this stuff every other month with my normal urea and p sulfate applied the other months.

Does this sound reasonable?

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

May be some one else can weight in about the minors and have used the Palm type fertilizer. ... i haven't seen any problems using the 10-10-10 with minors which are double (+/-) the minors in Fruit Fuel.

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

I am also planning urea and potassium sulfate and would be interested how to add the minors.

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

See this reference for a list of materials to blend fertilizers and for micros. NESAC-Fertilizers (Inorganic Fertilizers)

Check with your Coop or garden centers there may be concentrated blend of the micros available to use in the fertilizer batch.

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

One level cup --- spread around the stems in the mat. Yields biggggg bunches.

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

Do you use a nitrogen supplement with the 6-3-16? I ask because 1 cup (1 lb +/-) of the 6-3-16 applied monthly (6 or 8 mn) would only supply about 1/2 (+/-)of the nitrogen and 3/4 ths of the potassium the plant needs for the season.

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

Hope this is not a silly question, but I have never had to feed anything that fruits before.

Concerning fertilizer application in the “OFF SEASON”.

Edwmax, you kindly share your fertilization for the 6 warm (growing) months of about 1 pound nitrogen per “growing season”.
Here in Natal, South Africa the coldest period historically is June, with daytime high of 22°C and night low of 14°C, and average of 19°C.

http://www.worldweatheronline.com/du...-natal/za.aspx

I do not recall if my Bananas actually stop growing in the “cold” months. Would I notice a lack of new leaves forming?

Is there a temperature at which they become dormant, or is it a reduction in daily light that is the trigger, or both?

How should I be fertilizing them during winter (April to Sept) if they are still active?
I have planted some Pawpaw seeds that have now reached about a foot height. I know they will continue to grow through winter. Can I feed them the 10-10-10 through winter?

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

@ Stonefox

You seem to have a year round growing season. Banana dormancy depending on variety is about 10° - 15° C. Gros Michel a heat loving plant may go dormant a little higher. ... We push our bananas because our growing season is only about 6 months (or less) out of the year. This winter ALL my bananas froze and died back to the ground. I lost some very big pstems which should have been close to fruiting this spring. ...

So now to regrow those plants I have to push the new growth hard with lots of fertilizer. ... Many of us on this forum are 'Hobby Farmers" or 'Backyard Gardeners". We can afford spending a few extra $$$ on our FEW plants to see fast results. ... BUT, in your case this may not be the best or most economical way for a field with several thousand plants. Those few extra $$$ per plant for you is more likely a difference of loss or profit.

You have to work your economics and field management to be profitable and yield big heavy bunches. Yes, you should be dividing the fertilizer application over your 12 month growing season; may be 3 to 6 applications with a little heaver application during the most active months so fertilizer will be available to the plant year round. ... I'll also suggest may be using folar spray during the most active growing months along with some pesticide. The folar spray is near instant absorption and boost to the plant and very little lost to run-off or weeds. ... I doubt what I just wrote is any different than the recommendations by your local Ag Agency.

The simple answer to your question is: As long as the plants are active growing ... fertilize ... However with the above economics taken into consideration it not exactly that simple but more of timing/scheduling.

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

@ Edwmax
Many thanks for the advice.

Can I make a folar spray by dissolving the urea, mono-ammonium phosphates, and Sulfate of potash from my bags of granules?
Any special concentration?

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

Check with the manufacture, but these should be soluble.
urea = 1000g/L ; sop = 111g/L ; MAP = ???
Just strain to remove any solids.

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

Not so=====I want fruit not bigger pstems. 6/3/16 isn't called the "super fruiter" for nothing). Bunches are enormouse!!

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

While that is true, a friend of mine put it this way... Bananas have two stages, vegetative and fruiting / flowering... They must go through the vegetative one to get to the fruiting one. The faster they get through the vegetative stage, the sooner they get to the next one and plenty of nitrogen speeds up the vegetative process... Once they get to fruiting stage, stop the nitrogen and add extra MOP... Unless you are working on building your patience or just want them to take longer to fruit.

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

6-3-16 Super Fruiter Diamond R was actually designed for Fruit Trees (hardwood type) more specifically citrus. These don't need as much nitrogen as Banana plants do. The citrus trees are fully grown and only put on new leaves and fruit each year.

Banana plants must regrow their trunks & leaves for each fruiting cycle. Thus need LOTS of nitrogen for the vegetative green growth about 1.5 lbs to 2 lbs. If you want to see enormous bunches, get the plant to its proper size then feed it the 6-3-16. Stop starving the growing plant which also effects bunch size.

Sputinc7's post is correct.

Re: Potassium sulfate 0-0-50 question?
 

OH ... you need the bigger pstems for wind resistance (fla. her/him -icanes) and strength to support those BIG HEAVY Bunches.