Jack Daw

Agreed, here they grow in either drier or wetter conditions, no center.

__________________
Thnx to Marcel, Ante, Dr. Chiranjit Parmar and Francesco for the plants I've received.



Zeitgeist - Corporatocracy 101 (~2hrs)

Zeitgeist - Moving Forward (~2.5hrs)

harveyc

Chestnuts are very susceptible to Phytophthora cinnamomi and this problem exists in many mountain chestnut growing regions in Italy, France, and Portugal (I've witnessed it firsthand in Italy and Portugal and discussed it with many researchers). The Marsol cultivar which I use as a rootstock was bred in France to help combat the problem. If soils are well-drained and saturated conditions are avoided, Phytophthora cinnamomi does not multiply and destroy plants. I've read that it requires saturated conditions for 24 hours to to multiply. It requires warmer soil temperatures so saturated soil in the winter will not usually result in problems either. I witnessed a chestnut orchard here in California which was under several feet of water for a few weeks during the winter due to a levee failure and the orchard survived fine. However, it later was in decline as a poor practice of flood irrigation was being used which resulted in saturated conditions in the heavy soil this orchard was planted in. If I recall correctly, Phytophthora cinnamomi was introduced into the USA from Europe but is widely spread here now.

Most of the huge wild chestnut forests in the USA were destroyed by another pest, the Chestnut Blight. This pest was introduced from Asia and is also present in parts of Europe.

Another pest that is causing widespread destruction of chestnuts in parts of Europe (at least in Northern Italy and perhaps elsewhere, but I'm not certain at the moment) is the gall wasp which is another pest which was introduced into the USA and Europe from Asia.

This does reinforce the comment I made earlier that planting non-native plants is not natural either and in these cases the results have been very disastrous.

I'm now recalling a very interesting discussion (more like a shouting match) at a chestnut conference I attended in Marradi, Italy in October 2001. I nurseryman was discussing various cultivars that could grow well in Italy, including some Asian selections. He illustrated his presentation with photographs of orchards planted on fairly level ground. Some of the audience were mostly interested in chestnuts in their natural mountain environment and were appalled that anyone would propose that chestnuts be planted on flat ground. These people were mostly interested in maintaining forest conditions without consideration of chestnuts as a food crop. The discussion did calm down but it was clear that there were very strong and different opinions on the culture of chestnuts.

__________________

Kostas

Its unfortunate they are vulverable to so many things.

I think the rot issue exist for you because they are grown in warm locations where they dont grow naturally.Our Chestnut forests are located in the coldest and wettest of our mountains. Soil is saturated all winter and possibly most of the year(they are on mountainsides though so there is decent drainage although the soil is heavy and saturated) but its cool most of the year as well. The trees are abandoned and they live just fine here!

I think planting exotics doesnt present a problem as long as you get healthy plants and they dont belong to a genus native to your country. There do are some exotics that are invasive and destructive to the local forests and may present problems and these are better not planted.
Exotics arent natural to an area outside their environment(but do are natural as species and do exist wild in their home environment!) but add beauty to the scenery and makes you feel you are in the place you are imitating! Many are pretty rare as well and some outright endangered and benefit from being cultivated and propagated for more people to enjoy and ultimately,for repatriation if possible.

__________________
''To try,is to risk failure......To not try,is to guarantee it''

harveyc

I don't have a particular problem with root rot as I manage my irrigation water carefully and have my trees planted on mounds. Still, having a resistant rootstock is something that would make management easier.

I have met an Italian researcher on two occasions and her father has 5,000 hectares of chestnuts in the mountains of Italy and Phytophthora cinnamomi has been a serious problem for them. It was also a serious problem in native areas of northern Portugal which I visited. Maybe the pest just has not been imported to your location yet?

A problem still exists whenever you import non-native plants into your area as you must be careful not to overlook any hidden pests, including ones that may not even be recognized or identified yet. They chestnut gall wasp introduction cited above is a relatively recent phenomena when people thought they were being careful. Unfortunately, the pests hide in dormant buds and were not detected.

Some of the exotic insect pests introduced into California in the past couple of years have a very wide range of hosts, including native species. I sometimes wonder how much different the area around me may look when 30-40 years from now.

I certainly am not trying to discourage you from bringing in exotics, but just pointing out that it is not natural and has risks that come along with it.

__________________

Kostas

I think just working with what you have is the best. After a while,you learn its problems,what works and what doesnt with it and from then on you cultivate it successfully!

I am not sure if we have this pest in Greece but if we havent better it stays away i guess!

I do agree there is such risk unfortunately. But it can only be close to eliminated with measures such as the ones Australia has taken and not by anything less. We can only do our best to avoid bringing pests to our country by knowing the pest of the country of origin that would affect the plant we are bringing and checking for them when we get it,taking the neccessary measures to eliminate the pests.

Native species usually are part of a big chain of biotic and abiotic relantionships and so native habitats are generally more stable and can counteract some influences such as certain foreign pests. If the natives however are really prone to a certain pest,then the results are devastating such as those with Cycas micronesica in habitat,in Guam where it used to be the dominant species all over the island and now it is predicted to become extinct there by 2012....Many corrective actions have been tried with limited success and now another natural enemy of the offending insect will be introduced to the island to hopefully prevent the prediction from becoming reallity....

I agree it has its risks but i am putting the best of my effords minimizing them while still being able to have the plants i want.

__________________
''To try,is to risk failure......To not try,is to guarantee it''

Bob

Hi Konstantinos, just getting to look at your garden just today because I havent had a lot of free time on the computer lately and the org has become so large. Very impressive. Hopefully I'll make it to Greece ( as well as a few other European spots where friends have gardens) and have a look.

B

__________________

Kostas

Thank you very much for your reply Bob!

I am glad you like it! You are very much welcome when you make it here to see it from close and hopefully the plants will have grown some more to be more impressive!

__________________
''To try,is to risk failure......To not try,is to guarantee it''

Kostas

I updated my Pyrgos Garden thread on PalmTalk with lots of new pictures!

You will find the latest updates here.

__________________
''To try,is to risk failure......To not try,is to guarantee it''

Kostas

I have updated my thread on PalmTalk several times in the past months and a good volume of photographic material has been gathered there for anyone wishing to see.

Enjoy!!!

__________________
''To try,is to risk failure......To not try,is to guarantee it''

momoese

Just checked out your PT thread. Looking good!

Kostas

Thank you very much Micthel! I am glad you like my garden!

__________________
''To try,is to risk failure......To not try,is to guarantee it''