louis14

Hello to all
I would like to discuss possible techniques for forcing our Kluai Namwa to grow faster. Our climate conditions here in Thailand are ideal and Namwa is a local variety that will survive the dry season without irrigation and still bear quite nicely sized bunches. Of course when watered and properly fed, they grow stronger and can bear beautiful and heavy bunches but taking a good 18 months minimum from transplant to harvest.
Because of its capacity to survive drought, I believe Namwa has a slower metabolism than for instance K. Hom (GM).
We currently deleaf the younger pstems quite heavily, hoping this will push them to grow new leaves faster. It's the rainy season and they do grow well. I was wondering if anyone has any experience in forcing Namwa to reach maturity in the fastest time possible. We of course give all our bananas a good program of NPK and complements throughout the rainy season and irrigate the rest of the time. We don't feed them during the dormant period which tends to be November till March.

aruzinsky

In your picture, the leaves look chlorotic which suggests a nitrogen deficiency. Also, there seems to be mostly grass covering the ground around your banana plants. From what I have read (because I have no experience with this), you can kill two birds with one stone by planting a nitrogen fixing cover crop around the banana plants. See

Cover crop | ProMusa - the banana knowledge platform

louis14

Thank you for this excellent suggestion. You are correct regarding the leaf colour as I do have an alkaline soil problem as the measured pH is around 8 in about half the plantation. This does affect nitrogen and other fertilizer intake. We are now compensating with folear feeding. I am attempting to get my hands on large volumes of granular sulphur for a long-term pH correction. I am still however still looking for a technique to speed up the variety's growth rate.

Akula

I've got namwas so in for answers!

It may be just correlation but I have noticed that the quality and rate of growth picks up dramatically with the application of grass clippings from my lawn. I think the clippings help to manipulate the ph lower helping my bananas to absorb nutrients more efficiently.

I measured the ph level in my patch at the end of the season and it was in the 6 - 6.5 range but had risen to about 8.0 by early Spring using a Big Box ph measuring device. I had leaf deformities earlier this year due to over fertilization but they have cleared up in recent weeks.

My tallest namwas have greater than 11 feet of pstem.


My patch as of June 30, 2018:

aruzinsky

I have some experience with foliar feeding. If I were you, I would try spraying just one plant with a solution of 3% urea, 1% ammonium sulfate and 0.05% Triton X-100. Triton X-100 is, in my experience, the best surfactant to prevent beading of spray solutions. It is available online, but, I don't know whether they ship to Thailand:

Triton X-100 Nonionic Surfactant Detergent | TALAS

If and when you get good results with foliar feeding, you can experiment by adding various plant growth regulators to the spray solution. The plant hormone, brassinolide, is supposed to benefit some plants under some stresses.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.ed..._the_plant.pdf

Note:
"Extreme temperatures (7 and 34 C) increased stress symptoms,
i.e. necrotic areas on the leaves of bananas. However, in plants
treated with a trihydroxylated spirotane analogue of BR the effects
of thermal stress were significantly reduced. Cool temperature
affected leaf emergence with a significant reduction in their
number, but application of BR analogue had marked positive effect.
Plant height was also significantly reduced by both temperature
extremes, whereas the application of BR analogue was effective
only in plants exposed to the warmer temperature [25]."

https://www.thehindu.com/thehindu/se...2200341700.htm

Brassinolide can be bought from Ebay stores:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw...&ul_noapp=true

jmc96

I have a different theory in removing the young leaves.
Leaves are the power house of the plant, they are what nourishes, feeds and pushes the plant on. by removing a leaf you are removing like a piston in a car engine. I'd suggest, with a few trial plants, not removing any leaf at all and compare side by side growth to the ones you do remove.
Cheers from Australia.

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Currently growing:
M.velutina, M.ornata, M.zebrina, M.sikkimensis, M.basjoo,
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M. rajapuri, Blue Java, dwarf red dacca, Williams, Dwarf Chinese plantain (same as dwarf cav?), dwarf cav, super dwarf cav, Choui cau (Senorita), Goldfinger, Pisang ceylan, and Four Tongan varieties I'm working through,one is popoulu. Newly added: Gros michele, lakatan and saba.

louis14

Thanks for the suggestion
Actually in the test we started yesterday, we are removing more older leaves than usual. Previously we would always leave five to seven leaves. This time, as a test, we left only the three youngest leaves on plants shorter than average. Seeing how much energy there is in a corm, I don't think a lower rate of photosynthesis will affect the plant. However the phytohormonal response triggered by the stress might push the plant to grow more leaves in response, thus increasing its height. I know this works extremely well for palm trees, I am interested to see how it works out for Namwa

louis14

Hi Akula,
Our tallest Namwa, those in favorible parts of the plantation are fifteen feet tall, with a stem diameter around a foot and a half near the base

BTW: Nice pool 😎

louis14

Thanks for the surfactant suggestion.

We actually are planning the next folear feed for this coming week with the following.
20-20-20 fertilizer
Manganese sulfate
A cocktail of TEs , Zinc, Boron and calcium

We will add a surfactant as per your suggestion

Ten acres to spray

Akula

Fifteen feet! Wow! Hopefully mine are runt 12-13 footers! I'm getting tired of the waiting game. Haha.

aruzinsky

I forgot to mention that the best time to spray is just before sunset. The second best is right after sunrise.

Have you done a leaf analysis?

Calcium does not travel down the phloem and forms an insoluble precipitate with sulfates that might clog your sprayer.

louis14

Yes, thanks, we always spray in the morning. The additives cocktail is in an liquid form so no blocking there, also, we spray with a tractor and a powerful setup as it is a rather large plantation.
Unfortunately, leaf analysis is not available anywhere near our area, basically, for this geographical area, everything we are doing is quite experimental. The locals only know Longan and Mango, everything, every supply depot, are angled on those two or on Rice, Onions and Garlic.
We are doing better and better however, very thankful for the wonderful and enthusiastic knowledge sharing available on this forum

Tytaylor77

Techniques I use for faster growth include:
Proper watering and mulch!
Keep pups to 0-1 on fruiters.
Proper NPK and I apply every 2 weeks!
After flowering I remove male bud and deflower all female end flowers!
Finally I prune the bottom 1-3 hands depending on the bunch.

Great job Louis!
You will inspire many people in your area!
Your doing a great job man!

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louis14

Hey Ty, cheers!
We are doing all that, except for the mulching. I would like to use rice straw that is available here but in very short supply and booked years ahead (for real) as they use it for onions and garlic.
We need to get a mulching implement for the tractor and make our own, that would be the best. But them machines aren't cheap, even here.
Yesterday we deleafed a good 400 five footers down to the three/four newest leaves as my first tests are looking good. All to push that slow metabolism into higher speed. It's raining some, we are feeding them plenty. I will take some photos tomorrow and report back after a few weeks on how they are progressing.

louis14

Update
We are definitely doubling down on forcing growth through severe deleafing. The results of the first three weeks are clearly visible as the space between the frond bases has suddenly expanded even though we have been going through a dry spell rainwise, and this for about five weeks now.
We now deleaf young Namwa down to three leaves every week, counting even rolled leaves. We will stop basically once they get out of reach. Early pupping also seems to be enhanced by this treatment which is fine as we let the Namwa fields multiply as much as they want. Plants are looking good, stems are clean and healthy.

beam2050

thank you for this post. keep it up. all of us backyard farmers can use this info. I have often wondered if it would speed things up. think I read a post where somebody said it wouldn't. thought maybe it could heat up the plant and dry the ground out with less shade.

what do you do with the dut off leaves, leave them lay for compost and hold compost?

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npk of wood ash 0/1/3 to 0/3/7

npk of banana leaf ash 1.75/0.75/0.5

louis14

Thanks for your support! We are learning more every day, often through trial and error. We can afford errors; they are the cost of improving our knowledge.

The dead leaves are either chopped up when we rotoblade the undergrowth, or picked up and put on the compost heap.

I need a large mulcher attachment for the tractor, one that can take in whole Namwa adult stems.We have to wait however as this cost cannot be justified right yet.

louis14

The sun came out this morning following a wonderful night of rain. It made for a nice photo of these young Namwa, as they are right now

beam2050

I am sorry but I have another question for you;

I have around 10 namwa mats going at this time. my property is pretty much the same soil [golden sand] front to back and near 20 ft. down.

question is; you have some small plants here and there that do not seem to be keeping up. you do something to kick them in the pants?

I have a couple doing the same thing, not moving. look healthy but not moving. come from pots.

beautiful scene. looks like a wonderful place to live. all your pics say that.

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npk of wood ash 0/1/3 to 0/3/7

npk of banana leaf ash 1.75/0.75/0.5

edwmax

The 'dut off leaves' contain a good bit of the fertilizer being applied to the ground & plant. ... So certainly mulch and reuse! ... As long as there are no disease.



View the leave as a 'concentrater'. In the wild, over time, this is how the plant builds up the (poor) soil with the nutrients & minerals it needs. In time you should be able to reduce the amount of fertilizer being applied some.

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