imdocrob

Hi everyone, hope all had a wonderful New Years Eve celebration. Just a quick question for the forum. I have all my bananas in my greenhouse for the winter. The temp. varies from approx 80 during the day down to about 65 at night. I have noticed though that the bananas have seem to gone dormant. Is there anything I can do to spark new growth out of them? Is it a lack of light that has caused this or am I missing a fertilizer? Thanks for your help with this.
Rob

BonsaiTom

You need to give them a heavy dose of 0-10-10 Alaska More Bloom.
Use at least 3 TBSP. per gallon. you can double the strength with no worries.
There is no N in the NPK. Get some fish emulsion. Alaska fish fertilizer 5-1-1
Add 1 tablespoon per gallon with the More Bloom. Neither one stinks. This will fix your problem Guaranteed. After the first dose. Follow the label instructions. My greenhouse here in IN will hit 90 by noon and around 100 by 1 on a sunny day. That has only happened once 100. I had my exhaust fan unplugged, by an ex-friend who thought he was doing me a favor.hingy:

Tom

mrbungalow

Can it really get this warm in a Greenhouse located in Indiana state in January?

Imdocrob, lack of water and fert is probably the main reason. You should have enough light at your latitude.

__________________

BonsaiTom

Yes it can, and does. On a sunny clear day the temps, go thru the roof.
Then I open the roof vents and the heat goes thru the roof. Sorry bad joke. It has been warmer than usual the past few years, but when it is sunny, snow on the ground or not, it get's hot. It got cloudy and rainy early yesterday, but before it did it hit 83f. This was about 11:00 a.m. It is cloudy and rainy today so I got a break from having to open the vents. It has been in the high 30's most of the time, and yesterday it was in the 50's and it is 60 cloudy and wet now. As soon as the high temperature is reached in the day, and it happens much earlier that I had expected, by 1:00pm. As soon as the high temp. is reached, the temps. start to drop. By 3:00
the temps are down to about 80f. At first I did not understand why the temp. in the greenhouse would rise so fast, and the drop off as soon as it peaked, even if it is getting warmer outside. Here is an example: The temps reach 100 by 12:30 and the outside temp. is 35f and sunny. By 3:00
the greenhouse temp is down to 83f, but the outside temp. is above 40f. Last year I did not have it heated or vented. I have a wireless thermometer in there and the receiver in the house, a wireless weather station. Last winter I monitored it pretty close, because I had intentions on heating it and wanted to know what to expect. I was very surprised to find these results. I remembered when I bought my telescope that the book said that the the best time to view the moon was just as it comes up. The reason for this is because it is closer to the Earth. As the moon makes it aver head it is much higher in the sky. That is why the moon looks huge when it first rises. The same principals are at work with the sun. That is why the sun looks huge when it is setting. And rising, but it is much to bright to look at when it is rising, or all day long. The only time when you can see the sun without hurting your eyes is usually when it is setting. At first it was a puzzle to me and then remembered the telescope. I am not sure if this is the reason why the high temp in the greenhouse peaks so early and then drops off even as the day gets warmer. Keep in mind, that out of sheer luck and space my greenhouse is positioned exactly the way you want it. For best sun, especially in winter, you want the peak of the GH to be aligned exactly east west. This puts one side of the roof facing directly south This fall I moved my ficus bonsai into it. I had been keeping them inside, under a fluorescent light. I hung a piece of 60% black night shade cloth up so they would not get sunburned. I was only going to leave it up for a couple of weeks tops. It is still up. Partly because I am in a wheelchair and can't take it down by myself and partly because it has been so warm. This winter we have had 0 inches of snow. Any precip. has been rain. I am not complaining cause I hate snow, being in a chair, but it has been so sunny and warm this winter. Can you say global warming. Just another reason to garden organic. I'll post a couple of picture links so you can see my greenhouse. I am very proud of it. I bought it in Feb. 2005. The greenhouse was up but far from finished in 05. Actually finished it this late summer. I did not start using it until it was complete. I have natural gas heat, year round water, (it can't freeze) and electric. All ran from the house. All up to code. All done by professionals. One great friend that did almost all the work is a plumber. Built the greenhouse, ran the gas, water, and electric. Another friend is an electrician, he wired all the outlets. And my buddy that owns his own heating and cooling business wired the exhaust fans and shutters. I have a 4 foot wide walkway out to the greenhouse and a 3 foot patio, out front. I designed the floor out of panels for chicken coops and dog kennels. Perfect. See what you think.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...e/DSCF1569.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...e/DSCF1563.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...0/DSCF1527.jpg http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...0/DSCF1530.jpg

Tom

PaulOdin

That greenhouse looks great, but I have my doubts about the astronomy.

I remembered when I bought my telescope that the book said that the the best time to view the moon was just as it comes up. The reason for this is because it is closer to the Earth. As the moon makes it aver head it is much higher in the sky. That is why the moon looks huge when it first rises. The same principals are at work with the sun.

Can you make that a little clearer?

Paul

BonsaiTom

No I am not an astronomer. I just figured that when the sun comes up it is closer to the earth. The moon is. When the sun is high in the sky it is farther from the earth. The closer the sun is to the earth the faster the greenhouse temp. will rise. Once it gets so high the temp in the greenhouse starts to fall even though it is getting warmer outside. That is just my theory. I was surprised to see that as soon as the high temp is hit, it stays there for not long at all before It starts to cool off. It is cooling off in the greenhouse even though it is getting warmer outside the greenhouse. This must mean that whatever is heating the greenhouse, the sun, is not as intense, and the temp starts to drop. 1 more time. 12:30 Greenhouse temp 95f, outside temp 35f. 2:30 greenhouse temp 85f outside temp 40f. Why is the greenhouse warmer at 12:30 when the outside temp is only 35 then at 2:30 when the outside temp is 40? This is only with it totally closed. If you open a roof vent, the heat can escape. That is the best I can do. I hope this is clearer. It is pretty simple to me but then again, I thought it up. I am sure there is proof, I just know what my thermometer says and came up with a theory. By the way, I do have a thermostat controlled exhaust fan and a thermostat controlled motorized exhaust shutter. It does not reach those temps. now. That would not be good. That was last year, and this spring/summer. It has hit almost 95 this December with plants in it. That was 'cause I slept in a little and the thermostat was not set exactly right. I leave it set on 90 for the winter. That is not too hot and it could be 35f outside. I don't want the fans coming on at 80 if it is cold out. I want the heat to build a little more. Cheaper on the gas bill, and electric for that matter.

Tom

zergas

im courious, what are ur temps at night?
i like ur setup, looks verry professional.

imdocrob

Hey Tom, first of all thanks for the advice and secondly where did u get ur heater and flooring? That looks very cool.

mrbungalow

I like your GH Bonsai Tom. I see you have plenty of room still! But when you get hooked on bananas it will soon get crowded!! Well, any greenhouse would be too small for bananas if you ask me...

I was very excited about space, rockets, and astronomy as a kid. Could anyone have guessed that the sun is actually closest to the earth in January and furthest away in the northern hemispheres' summer? I think it's the azimuth (and possibly shade from trees?) that is responsible for the higher morning temps.

Erlend

__________________

BonsaiTom

Ok. Zergas, I don't let the temps get below 56f at night, although the past few nights have been real warm for January. Right now it is still 53f out and still raining a little. Supposed to be warm for the next couple too. I think. Last night I turned the heater down as low as it would go and still come on and it stayed about 60. I was worried about how well it would keep up, but it has not been a problem. Even when it got down to 8f.

imdocrob:The heater and flooring came from Farm-Tek as well as the greenhouse. The heater is a pro-com blue flame 10,000btu vent free natural gas heater. They have a propane model too. It has a push button starter, not an electric starter, so nothing to worry about in an electrical outage. The flooring is made by a Canadian company called Red Rooster. Farm-Tek sell the panels for I think they were about $15, each. They are 2'x4' panels that overlap and interlock. They did not fit perfect. We had to cut one end short and the 9' wide required that 1 panel on each row had to be cut in half. For them to overlap and interlock correct we ended the first row with a half panel and started the next row with the other half. I only had to buy 14 panels instead of 16. I did not want to buy 3 panels to cut in half. The overlapping part you have to cut off the little plastic nubs that fit into holes on the corresponding panel 'cause they don't line up. We had to take it up and shorten it a bit 'cause it was bowing in the heat, when it expanded. I had it screwed to the ground with gutter screws and washers. It was all working just like I had planned, but it worked a little to good and the floor had no where to expand. It gets very warm when the sun is shining. We took the floor up well my buddy took the floor back up not all of it but 2 of the 3 rows. Shortened the end row and put them back together. Instead of using the screws again we used cable ties. Heavy ones. They will let the floor expand a needed, and no more bowing. I am real proud of the floor. I have to have a floor, and gravel sucks. The company makes white panels too. Farm-Tek only sell black. I found them at another place for about $50 for 2. They sell them to be used for table tops. I didnt know they made white until I ran across them in a Charleys greenhouse supply catalog. I have not looked for a dealer with white one's, but I am sure that you could call the company and ask for one.

mrbungalow: I don't know if the sun is closest to the earth in January. When I was monitoring it without plants in it and it was completely closed I surmised that the sun must be closer to the earth in the morning. In summer the closed greenhouse with no shade cloth, I have a 60% cover for it in summer, would get to 135f-140f. I never saw it go much above that, but the roof vents are large, and I have solar vent openers for the summer that will open the roof vents, as soon as they get warm. They work by heat not light. They have a black piston that is filled with something that expands when it heats up. And a motorized fan and shutter.

Thanks for all the complements on it. I am super happy with it.

www.growerssupply.com Farm-Tek.

Tom

zergas

imdocrob, the home depot in my area sells something similar to thoose floor panels.
they are 1 1/2 thick and 2'x2' for 8 bucks a piece plus tax and they are rated for outdoor use.

Pithy_Cherub

Very clever setup, Tom!

Do I see (in the DSCF1569.jpg) you use the - not sure of their true name, lazy susan-waist exerciser-spinner type thingies to be able to rotate the plants w/out picking them up? I use those (I haunt the dollar stores & thrift shops to buy in bulk when I find 'em!) - handy little gadgets, they are!

I'm sooooo gonna get my floor done like yours .... I like it!

BonsaiTom

They are made for bonsai. They are bonsai turntables. Hard graphite with stainless ball bearings. No rusting!!!! I got them from ebay. About $10 each and they hold up 200lbs I think. Many bonsai tree's are heavy. Mine are. Turn the tree without lifting. I can examine all sides daily with no prob.
I can't use cheap dollar store ones for heavy bonsai. I also use them for work turntables. When I am styling a tree I probably turn it 50 times or more for perspective. do something and then turn the tree and see what it looks like from all sides. The only thing better is if they were motorized so I could view from a distance. I guess I need to look for an old record player I love them and will probably be ordering more.

Tom

Pithy_Cherub

That's the word I couldn't come up with - turntables! Doh!

Yep, the $store cheapies won't hold much weight. But they're great for lightweight pots (ie indoor stuff like african violets, little philos, etc.) - the heavier ones like yours ... I swear they used to sell them to women for whittling the waistline (so they are sure to be heavy duty! LOL!). I might just be dating myself admitting that I remember those, though! Those are the ones I keep an eye out for in thrift stores, yard sales, & the like. I have our TV's sitting on them too, so I can easily angle to where I'm working.

Now the motorized angle? You do have a creative bent! There has to be something, somewhere, out there that will fill that bill - we just have to find it!

BonsaiTom

Yea, stuff like that can be made pretty easy you just have to think outside the box. I looked into tv/vcr lazy susans but fir the price and the quality, when I use 1 during re-potting a big tree, after out of the pot I can set it on the turntable and get must of the old soil off before I have to hold it in hand, turn it upside down and get all the old soil out. you do this on all bonsai but azalea. prune the roots, grab my pan of newly sifted and mixed bonsai soil and finish off. I use a table-mate. One of the fold-up tv trays that they sold on tv as a work table. I am in a wheelchair so it is perfect. Adjustable height and fold able. I can pull up under it have a tree in front of me and go to work. When I am done I file it up and set it behind the heater. Totally perfect. I'll probably get another table-mate. I would dot trust it with a tree over 50 pounds, and my heaviest is about 35-40.

Tom