Re: Advice sought for a novice buying a banana farm?
 

And before anyone points out that some scientists have attacked the study, let's take a look at who they are!
How independent is the Science Media Centre and its experts?


Yes lots of factors. Average human height is probably a mating issue.

I disagree that we were not fine. We made it here didn't we? We made it to the age of science in food didn't we?

Testing is needed, lots of it. FDA approving this stuff before any long term testing is reckless to say the least. It's all about money and power.

Re: Advice sought for a novice buying a banana farm?
 

that's all well and fine that plants have grown for millions of years without our help, but it's an irrelevant argument.

corn, bananas, wheat or whatever isn't going to spontaneously grow in fields ready for harvest in quantities capable of feeding billions of people. Sorry.

And large production attracts lots of pests.

So are the deaths of millions just to claim an organic victory worth the cost????? really?

Also, debunking articles based on the 'experts' being pro or con is as stupid as the yes it is, no it isn't John Cleese skit.

pssst..... organic crowds are going to use the most rabid organic fanatics to push their point of view, just like the GM side is going to do.

And for the record, I'm not against organics, but come on, at least offer a solution, not pontificate on how others are ruining the planet.

Re: Advice sought for a novice buying a banana farm?
 

Here is a good summary of the scientific view of why human height has increased: improved childhood nutrition. Note that improved nutrition corresponds with less natural ways growing plant and animal crops over the last couple of hundred years.
Why are we getting taller as a species?: Scientific American

Well, we were fine historically if you view widespread famine and disease that killed relatively large portions of the population as "fine". The population biologist in me wants to say that we need more famine and disease to solve the overpopulation problem, but I can't really maintain that heartless outlook when I think about the people involved, rather than the numbers of people.

I fully support adequate testing of new agricultural products, etc.

For some it is about money and power, but even in the big, money making agribusiness companies, I think you would find many who genuinely care about feeding the world in a sustainable way.

Re: Advice sought for a novice buying a banana farm?
 

I wish I had your hope in humanity.

Re: Advice sought for a novice buying a banana farm?
 

save the planet KILL YOURSELF

breeding caused the increase in height? LOL
you really think that children outgrowing their grandparents is breeding?
so where are all the unsatisfied short women hanging out?

yeah bro where's my 30,000 pounds of organic K ?

as I predicted the question was dodged





Irish Potato Famine and synthetic fungicides.... nuff said.....

Re: Advice sought for a novice buying a banana farm?
 

GW, if this was directed at me I will advise you that this is against the site rules.

BTW, who are you, why are you here, where do you live, what plants are you growing?(Edit, I see your list on your profile, nice list!) A little profile info would be nice from someone talking that kind of s h i t.

Yeah, it's really inconceivable that that people saw taller people as supreme and bred that way, or that synthetic growth hormones had any play in it, or many other causes. I mean seriously, do you want me to write a theseus on it?



So now I'm your "Bro" after you tell me to kill myself? :ha:

Potassium (K) is the most natural major plant food because potassium salts (potassium chloride, sulphate, nitrate etc.) are found so abundantly and so widely distributed in nature. In soils and plants these salts, which are all water soluble, separate into the potash cation K+ and the relevant anion Cl-, S04--, N03- etc. Potash in manures is also mainly (70-90%) in water soluble form with a small amount bound into the organic material which is released into the soil solution as the organic matter is mineralised. Potash from manures thus operates in the K cycle shown below in an identical manner to fertilizer potash and there is no reason to distinguish between these materials in terms of K supply. Potassium fertilizers are not associated with any environmental or health concerns. None of the forms of these materials provide any harmful effects, unless like any substance, they are used in excess

Re: Advice sought for a novice buying a banana farm?
 

Mitchel You're my bro too you organic tree hugger you!! and don't kill yourself I will have no one to send my Monsanto corn to. :ha: Talk soon

Re: Advice sought for a novice buying a banana farm?
 

Ok slim Tony! :ha:

Re: Advice sought for a novice buying a banana farm?
 

The wonderful thing about this thread is that, buried in among the entrenched opinions, haphazard theories and thinly veiled threats are heaps of fascinating facts.

Of course those commercial operators who use synthetic pesticides are going to believe their way is the ONLY way.. their very livelyhoods depend on it.

The manufacturers of pesticides and GM crops are claiming it's the only way to feed the world but their aggressive legal and sales practices, backed by US government foreign policy look less about feeding the world and more about profit, market share and control.

And organic proponents, distrustful of large, lawyer driven multinational corporations, want to believe there is another way.

In the meantime the big chemical experiment continues and it's a challenge to avoid it, because labeling of GM produce is limited (in Australia at least), to raw unprocessed goods.

The only easy way to avoid GM, is to buy certified organic produce because GM is totally excluded.

Fortunately, from my organic perspective, more and more people are becoming aware of the dirty aspects of commercial agriculture and livestock and choosing to vote, with their wallets, against the synthetic pesticide and gene-spliced model in favor of the organic one - as evidenced by the increasing shelf space devoted to organic and free range produce in supermarkets.

Just thought I'd better chip in my two cents.

Please keep it up.. I'm loving this forum, it's really bananas!

Nigel

Re: Advice sought for a novice buying a banana farm?
 

GW the video you posted is CATEGORICALLY offensive.

Re: Advice sought for a novice buying a banana farm?
 

Hi Nigel.
I'm glad you are still reading this thread. I'd like to apologize for my off topic nature. It's sometimes hard to talk about one thing without mentioning the other.
Hopefully soon we can veer back into soil amendments to make better use of your synthetic fertilizer, which won't leach if enough organic material is added and CEC is raised.
I believe this will become more popular with large scale farmers in the near future.

Killing yourself is'nt just against the site rules LOL

It is a joke and I thought everyone had heard of this.
I don't subscribe to many subcultural fanatical beliefs but recognize a citizen having their voice heard.
Use the search.

"Korda described the project as reflecting his contempt for and frustration with the profound ugliness of the modern industrial world." Church of Euthanasia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Voluntary Human Extinction Movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I don't really want to have a long chat about myself but since it's become clear I'm not being understood, I'll try and explain more.

I'm a pragmatist who likes to crack jokes because the truth is often "softer" that way.
I'm from the third Earth shot in that video.
My current ZIP is in my location on your screen right now.
That is only part of my list. (adding Latin names to simplify searching threw me for a loop)

I'm growing, for profit, bananas,sapodilla, lychee, longan, pina, and other things aimed at immigrant populations in my area whose needs are only supplied by distant growers.
see this post http://www.bananas.org/f2/advice-sou...tml#post205571
I've only been a landowner 3 years so it's early in my tropical farming career.
I am entirely self educated.

My neighborhood was built on old lake bed and so I have sandy/silt/loamy soil with a hint of clay. Richness of soil was a major factor in the purchase of a house.
I'm currently clearing 1/2 or 3/4 acre down the street in a semi swamp, where I was advised by the landowner to "Kill the vines and plant whatever you want and give me some".
He has about 2.5 acres and I hope to convince him to use it all.

I am opposed to buying and maintaining land as fallow or mixed grass/weeds.
I am opposed to land owners growing in containers.
I am in favor of amending the soil so that conatiner growing becomes pointless.
I am in favor of landowners planting for food security.
I am in favor of the spouse in the lowest paying job taking their children out of daycare and planting the largest garden possible while raising their own children.
I reduce/reuse/recycle.

Maybe.
I will be quite happy when Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is universally known and accepted.



I'll see your HA and raise you $20 sir !
We are all brothers and sisters. There is not THAT much genetic diversity in any species.
All animals are essentially the same such as the books in the library are all the same, while still being wildly diverse.

Learning, communication, and emotion are all proven in animals yet they have little if any status. We can clearly see that the construction is very similar or identical, yet hold ourselves superior over all.
The eagle has an eye, as I have an eye, as the frog has an eye.
"Life at All Costs" mentality is employed in regard to humans, and we sacrifice billions of animals lives like they never existed.
We are all brothers, all of the creatures of earth.


[/quote]



REALITY CHECK :ha:
I'm a weightlifter and have personally consumed 3 chickens, 36 potential baby chickens, and 3 gals of milk THIS WEEK, all produced under unnatural conditions at the expense of the planet and the lives and freedoms of animals.
I'm also behind on my protein for the week. :ha:
Bananas provide potassium, a gluten free source of carbs (because I seem to have a problem with wheat or something on/in the wheat) and I swear this is true... 5 bananas a day increases my feeling of well being.

Re: Advice sought for a novice buying a banana farm?
 

Well thank you for causing me to read the rules and I will agree that the vid is against them.
I am on my way to edit it from the post now.
I am not here to discuss religion and that was an oversight. My bad.

I just posted that because he thought I meant him.
I also posted a couple of links to further verify that this was a broader statement made by others and not ad homenim attack.
I also made a HUGE post in the interest of satiating Mitchel who was needlessly offended by my poorly formatted post.

Hopefully Momose is cool and we can get back to dirt.

Nigel
I'll tell you one thing you might watch carefully is water table/ groundwater PH, irrigation practices, and microclimates.
These are sometimes overlooked issues.

One that I have unintentionally be victim to is the issue of dissolved carbonates in irrigation water leading to the formation of calcareous soil.
I knew little about soil and water chemistry a few years ago and made the mistake of irrigating with 8.5vPH water with high dissolved carbonates.
I killed at least half of my container plants before I became aware of my mistake.

Re: Advice sought for a novice buying a banana farm?
 

Nigel,

If you are still considering growing bananas and have not yet read Dan Koeppel's book "Banana: The Fate of the Fruit That Changed the World", you should.

Among the myriad interesting points he makes is that the organic bananas in supermarkets (at least in the US) are almost certainly worse for the environment than the "traditional" bananas. This is because of how they are farmed: a plot of rainforest in Latin America is cleared, bananas are planted, synthetic pesticides and ferts are not used, and after a couple or a few years disease are so rampant in the plot that they plow it under and move on to the next plot of rainforest that they clear. Dan's take is that currently, if you are buying bananas in the supermarket in the US, it is more environmentally responsible to choose the non-organic ones.

This is not to say that organic bananas could not be grown in a more responsible way. They could. But the big agri-businesses that put bananas on supermarket shelves in many parts of the world are not doing so currently.

Save the rainforest: grow you own bananas!

Re: Advice sought for a novice buying a banana farm?
 

Well thanks for the explanation.

Still not sure how this plays into the thread.

Re: Advice sought for a novice buying a banana farm?
 

A perfect example of how the world is heading for bankruptcy in economical, moral and ethical terms; big business caring only for the bottom line.

I guess the only way we can be sure is to grow our own. Fortunately I have awoken to the desire to do just that, hence the drive for self learning which brings me here. My back yard veggie garden is far from productive but, far more valuable than the produce is instilling the familiarity with the process into my 5 year old daughter. I was raised in a small town and my ignorance in terms of plant identification and husbandry is shocking.

What few veggies I have managed to grow have proven the tastiest I've ever had. This morning I had a strawberry the like of which I've never had before. Perhaps this is because it had ripened naturally and not been picked green with a view to transportation and storage? Whatever.. it was an amazing flavour and extra-satisfying because I had grown it, without any pesticides.

Cheers
Nigel

Re: Advice sought for a novice buying a banana farm?
 

.............:lurk: ...............
Great opines on this thread!!!!
This is exactly what forums are about .
This is what we are about.
Opinions, Beliefs, Resolution , Common Ground, Agree to Disagree or Whatever.
Great minds here throwing it down !!!
I listen and I learn !!
WE ALL DO !!

On a lighter note check out my thread :
I AM GOING TO BUY A ZOO.:ha:

Re: Advice sought for a novice buying a banana farm?
 

This is GOLD.. I have become aware that the coastal regions of Australia (where the vast majority of the population live), have an Acid Sulphate soil problem.

The local council have surveyed the area and prepared a map which one can download.

I'll be sure and check soil and water table too.

Thanks heaps G.W.

Nigel

Re: Advice sought for a novice buying a banana farm?
 

While discussing this thread with a friend I learned about this Open Source Ecology project.

Category:Food and Agriculture - Open Source Ecology

And a TED talk by the guy who started the movement..

Marcin Jakubowski: Open-sourced blueprints for civilization | Video on TED.com

For those unfamiliar with the term Open source
"In production and development, open source is a philosophy, or pragmatic methodology that promotes free redistribution and access to an end product's design and implementation details".

I've long thought that Open Source is the kind of revolutionary social approach that the world needed but hadn't considered how it could make the leap from the digital world into the physical.

Hope this may be of interest

Nigel

Re: Advice sought for a novice buying a banana farm?
 

I may be wandering too far off topic here but I just read this article which, to me, may be a good explanation of how we got into this situation where 'regular commercial farmers' "have to" use pesticides and GM crops in order to feed the world's population.
Link to the article..

The USA is headed for a fiscal cliff | Your Medieval Future

The article itself..

The USA is headed for a fiscal cliff

13 September 2012

Norman Pagett writes:

But this is more than just a fiscal cliff for the USA, it is a financial crisis pushing the industrial world over a cliff.
The problem isn’t economic, or political, it is one of denial of reality, the refusal to face the reality that the American dream has turned into a nightmare. There is no longer enough cheap energy to power the engines of world industry, and borrowing money into infinity isn’t going to refill the oilwells.
Politicians and economists try to sell the notion that money circulation drives the economy, but we do not live in a money-economy. Our infrastructure is a dynamic of energy input. Or to be more specific, a dynamic of energy surplus because all forms of energy are essentially the same thing.
10,000 years ago the first farmers grew enough food (energy) to support themselves, as their farming skills improved they found they had a little left over which might have paid for someone to guard it, or a holy man to pray over it. How the excess was used is irrelevant, it was surplus energy and became a trading medium for exchange of skills; using it for other than food meant that energy could be tokenised. The soldier needed weapons, the holy man needed a house of worship, neither could be paid for unless there was a surplus of food-energy to do so. Money is still used to trade skills.
We had created an ‘economy’, because while the soldier and the priest could be paid with bushels of corn, it was easier to tokenise the transaction, and convert energy into money, then sustain the value of money by constantly producing more energy.
Now fast forward 10,000 years, and we’re still locked into that same trading system, but now it’s on steroids. 250 years ago we learned how to extract the energy from 200 million years worth of fossilised sunlight. We invented the steam engine, and dug coal oil and gas out of the ground as fast as we could, congratulating ourselves on our ingenuity. The more we dug up, the more ‘wealth’ we had, the faster we burned it, so our growth increased. Cheap fossil fuel energy drove our machines, vastly increased our food-energy supplies and boosted our population by an extra 6 billion who wouldn’t otherwise be here.
But we have been burning a finite energy source. Just the same as taking out a bank loan and convincing ourselves we are rich. We are not. We are living on borrowed time and money.
If we don’t maintain energy input, our economic system will collapse.
Which is where we’re at right now: we are trying to maintain a cheap-energy economy using expensive energy. In 1998 oil was under $12 a barrel, 10 years later it hit $147. At that point the world economy crashed because we tried to sustain a cheap energy economy using expensive energy.
This is the reality our politicians refuse to acknowledge. Without cheap oil we do not have an economy, and no amount of wish-politics and wish-economics is going to refill the oilwells and bring back $2 gas. Unfortunately what became the American Dream for a few became a nightmare for the rest. Our sources of cheap energy are gone, but our delusions remain. Its wealth was unevenly distributed, those on the prosperity ladder have climbed higher, while those at the bottom are fighting against the rising tide of poverty and despair because the cheap energy that gave everyone a glimpse of prosperity has now become too expensive to support our lifestyle, which is vanishing into our future like the mirage it always was.

Re: Advice sought for a novice buying a banana farm?
 

Well if this thread is going that far off the rail I'll throw this in.

WASTE