Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

These are Rob's pictures of a seeded banana growing in Balboa Park, San Diego, CA. I've eliminated a bunch of seeded species, but I sure can't place it! Any ideas? The flower pic is kind of out of focus, and for that Rob apologizes! J/K Rob! :bananas_b

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

When I first saw these awhile back I thought maybe they were M. itinerans by the fruit, but that does not look right at all now. Then I thought maybe M. sikkimensis but that does not match either. The closet description Im thinking now is M. thomsonii. It would be nice to see a photo of the seeds if possible.

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

It reminds me of Mysore, so maybe an indian variety is somewhere on the right track..

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

Some more info from Rob (hey Rob...weigh in here!). The pseudostems are about 28" in diameter. Leaf + petiole length is about 10'. Pseudostem height about 20'. The fruit is about 6" long, and apple/pear flavored.

Hey Gabe, some characteristics of this plant do remind me of M. thomsonii, like the semi-pendulous infloresence, and the waxy bloom on the upper pseudostem. The fruits of this plant are much larger than M. thomsonii though, and the leaves look to be wider and rounded at the base, unlike M. thomsonii's narrower, lanceolate leaves.

You know, it does resemble what has been sold as M. itinerans here at Agri-Starts and Banana-tree.com (but looks like M. yunnanensis). The fruit bunch doesn't look quite right though.

I'm thinking it could be a hybrid. Gabe, can you direct Markku over here to have a look?

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

That pretty much covers it. The seeds looked exactly like my M. sikkimensis that I got mail order last year, but I'm no expert. They were about the same size also. The grove was growing in pretty much all-day complete shade. I'll be out there in a few days and maybe I'll get better pictures (and pictures of ripe fruit and seed if those in the photo are ripe and still on the plant).

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

Gabe,

Why don't you think it's sikkimensis? I think the fruit and stalk looks alot like sikkimensis...

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

There is clearly some wax on the petioles, M. sikkimensis does not have wax on mature plants. It could be a hybrid, it looks very similar to M. sikkimensis except for the wax in my opinion.

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

I agree with Gabe. I am not getting "Thomsonii Vibes" here. The regular sikkimensis doesn't have that heavy wax-deposit. I also noticed the leaf-shapes looking like typical balbisiana, wich don't resemble sikkimensis at all. The fruit & flower looks identical to that I have seen of sikkimensis. But it looks very much like my musa helens. Could also be Musa sikkimensisX "Darjeeling giant" wich apparently is a hybrid between sikkimensis and balbisiana.

Erlend

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

Ya after looking around a bit more, definetly not M. thomsonii.

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

I really don't think that bloom looks like sikkimensis. Check out this link to a guy in GA, who has posted here once or twice, of his M. sikkimensis blooming. It tapers off rather abruptly, instead of the smooth taper of the plant I posted. Sikkimensis bloom also looks darker. I've never seen any wax on Musa sikkimensis either.

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

Interestingly enough, there is wax on the plant posted in that link. When I saw the many giant stands of M. sikkimensis at the Huntington, none of them had wax at all.

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

Ha! Good eye, Gabe! Funny I didn't even notice that, I was so focused on the flower. So perhaps M. sikkimensis is a variable species, as Simmonds wrote about a long time ago, and we could be looking at a few different forms in cultivation now.

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

the flower in the link looks oddly purple to me. all the photos of sikkimensis i have seen show purpleish outsides but red insides, like many common edible bananas. also there are odd markings on the ends of the ovaries that i have not seen in sikkimensis.

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

I dug this up from The Musaceae website regarding M. sikkimensis:

It is indeed a variable species, as Simmonds said, and these different areas that sikkimensis grows could have been isolated from each other for long enough to make this come about. The Himalayas are such an interesting area of the world!

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

I would say if the seed looks like M. sikkimensis, then this plant is just that.

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

If it quacks like a duck.... it must be sikkimensis. :2236:

Any chance of seeing a picture of the seeds?

Erlend

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

Yes, seed pictures are coming soon! That should definitely help to settle it. I agree with M. sikkimensis now also...tentatively, LOL!

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

OK, here are the seeds. Not the best quality picture, but my camera batteries were about to die. After seing these, I'm pretty sure that it is Musa sikkimensis. They are a bit smaller on average than M. sikkimensis seeds I've received in the past, but have the same, irregular, angular shape.

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

The seeds show this plant is in the neighborhood of sikkimensis. But again, I think most likely it's Musa SikkimensisX or "Helen". Especially since the seeds are smaller. But could also be regular sikkimensis.

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

Erlend, I don't think that it's 'Helen', as that is still an awfully new introduction, and this plant seems to be very well-established. These seeds are also black, whereas the 'Helen' seeds that I've received have been rather gray in color.
I did have a couple of dead M. sikkimensis seeds lying around, and used them as reference. They were noticeably larger, but the same, irregular shape. I think it could be a M. sikkimensis X also, or just M. sikkimensis. Whatever it is, I look forward to growing it in my yard!

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

Well, I reexamined the seeds today after they dried out. They are NOT Musa sikkimensis, at least the straight species. They are all warty! Something I didn't notice when they were wet, but very apparent after they dried out. Musa sikkimensis seeds are quite smooth, with no warts. So, perhaps a hybrid, like M. sikkimensis X balbisiana, is a possibility here. Cool. :02:

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

Hey Frank, just a reminder...worst case scenario I do have a seedling (actually two off of the same seed) so even if none of my other seeds and none of yours make it you will still be getting a plant.

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

Sounds even more like Musa sikkimensis hybrid, which seem to often have more than one sprout coming from the same seed, as my Musa sikkimensis X balbisiana(paradisica) did.
My only helens hybrid is pure green, but my incredibly vigoursly growing M. sikki X darjeeling giant has purple leaf undersides, but this maybe really random because of the different parents.

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

Hello rob its me mike from that other board. I was looking online to find info on the banana plant we both have. My search dug up this old thread I guess, sorry to bring it up. Thanx for the info again. I have had it for almost 4 years now and never new what it was. I want to make a plant label for it should I just put it as musa Balboa? or sikkimensis hybrid? I found 2 other pics of it when it was smaller when I first got it

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

Mike,

While somewhat similar, I don't think your is the same banana plant. Yours looks like one of the "Reds", a fruiting cultivar. Here's a closeup of the pseudostem on mine, which I got from Rob:



Yours has more red on the pseudostem. Also notice that the new leaf on yours emerges from within the last leaf, whereas the new leaf on the 'Balboa Park' emerges straight out of the middle. It also has a reddish underside on the new leaf, and yours look green.

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

If anyone is interested I have a bunch of Musa sikkimensisXparadisica seedlings that are on their second leaf, and I'd like to trade in a couple months or so for a seedling of that type. PM me or email.

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

Have any Idea what the one I have could be?

Unknown Musa starting to pup...
 

I'm starting to get a pup at the base of my Musa 'Balboa'. With this drought I am a little surprised that it is doing so well. I've been watering all my Musa, but the basjoo are turning brown anyway.

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

Mike, yours is probably one of the "Red" cultivars, but I couldn't tell you which one.

Rob, good to hear you have a pup already! I don't yet, but I do have another pup poking up from my 'Helen's Hybrid'. Just wish I could remember who I promised it to, lol. One of about 4 people...
My Musa basjoos look pretty good, all things considered. A little bit of browning, but not much at all. Got a couple of others that don't look so good though.

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

Has anybody compared this plant with Musa sikkimensis 'Daj Giant'. The P-stem in bigdogs photo looks alot like mine. They both are supposed to have the recurved leaf(where it meets petiole) like balbisiana. I have some of the balboa park seeds and they are bigger and less bumpy than Musa sikkimimensis X paradisica seeds, but I don't have any Daj Giant to compare them to. Has anybody done this comparison? Does anybody have some pics of mature Daj giant?
I'm actually hoping that they are different types of sikkimensis hybrids. That would make the total sikkimensis hybrid count at 4 types that members here have.

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

If I remember correctly, the 'Daj Giant' seeds were much bigger, but I could be wrong. I have both plants growing side-by-side in the greenhouse, and they are very similar. There are subtle differences in the leaves, but the pseudostem on both is quite waxy. I need to remember to bring my camera to the greenhouse tomorrow to get a few shots for comparison.

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

OK, here's a shot today of my Musa x sikkimensis 'Daj Giant':



Leaf closeup of 'Daj Giant':



Pseudostem closeup of 'Daj Giant':



And a shot of my Musa x sikkimensis 'Balboa Park':



Leaf closeup of 'Balboa Park':



Pseudostem closeup of 'Balboa Park':



Side-by-side:



The leaves of 'Balboa Park' have some red markings on the leaves, whereas 'Daj Giant' does not. Also, the red midrib has faded quite a bit with my 'Daj Giant', while 'Balboa Park' still has a prominent reddish-purple midrib. Both have waxy pseudostems. They are very similar, but have a few subtle differences. Clearly both have M. sikkimensis as a parent, but who is the other parent? Possibly M. balbisiana?

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

Thanks for posting Frank. That's good news, and the balboa park looks really nice. I wonder which one will grower taller.

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

I just wanted to state that Musa 'Balboa' has now overwintered for me two winters in a row (and for Randy4UT as well). Bigdog, you need to get yours in the ground this year.

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

Yeah, I do! Something weird happened to mine in the greenhouse this year. The main stem rotted, so I dug the corm out and separated four smaller corms off of the main corm. Well, one of them sprouted quickly, and is really nicely marked. The mother corm rotted away though! Two other corms have grown roots, but haven't sprouted yet. The professor had the water temperature way too cold, and it caused lots of problems.

So I do have one to plant still! It is a nice plant too. How big did yours get last year, Rob?

Frank

Re: Unknown Seeded Banana Presented for ID
 

I probably took too many pups off, but the pseudostem got up to about 5'. The mother pseudostem died, but this year's pup is already at about 4' of pseudostem so this should be a pretty good year. Also, I took a pup way too late last year, but it is coming up from the original pseudostem. As a pup, it had a pseudostem almost as tall as the mother pseudostem at about 4 1/2'. Randy4UT has the other pup and it is coming up as well. I'll be interested to see how big his will get this year.