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View Full Version : Blk Sigtka - I officially hate FL


proletariatcsp
05-13-2009, 02:12 PM
Either my banana is not 'Ice Cream" or Ice Cream is not as resistant to Sigatoka as many claim.

I am so angry right now. I can't stand the lousy chemically-induced bananas at the grocery store. They are blan and have a terrible perfume-like aftertaste. Does anyone even test grocery store bananas to see what the toxicity levels are? And I know they drench them in fungicides for shipping because the stem is the last part to rot.

Well maybe by some miracle my bananas will die a slow and painful death, only to tease me with a half-developed bunch tangling before it falls.


UPDATE: See Pictures below

Bananaman88
05-13-2009, 02:30 PM
Do you have some photos of your bananas you can post? Are you certain it's Sigatoka?

Caloosamusa
05-13-2009, 02:36 PM
If it is Black Sigatoka it is not an Ice Cream!! Ice Creams are very resistant to BS (Black Sigatoka). :2239:

proletariatcsp
05-14-2009, 12:03 AM
Do you have some photos of your bananas you can post? Are you certain it's Sigatoka? - Bananaman

I'm not laboratory-certain its Sigatoka, but it appears to match the order of symptoms. I Have updated with pics to illustrate the progression.

If it is Black Sigatoka it is not an Ice Cream!! Ice Creams are very resistant to BS (Black Sigatoka). - Caloosamusa

No fruit yet, but will know for sure in a few more weeks. I wouldn't be surprised.

It would be a great relief to learn this is not Sigatoka and just turn out to be something that can be treated. Please bear in mind, we are not in the rain season yet, and have been in a drought with low humdity all Spring. I believe this is the only reason the disease has not been able to spread any faster.


Pic1 - This is the earliest sign of the disease. You will need to click on the picture to "zoom" in order to see the brownish/red splotches. The black flecks are more noticeable, but the reddish/brown patches (not the spots) are the earliest indication.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=17319&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17319)

pic2 here is a better example of the early reddish/brown streaks emerging.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=17339&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17339)

pic3 underside of leaf symptoms
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=17337&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17337)

pic3 top side of the leaf above
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=17340&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17340)

pic4 At this stage, you can see the reddish/brown streaks begin turning black.
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=17341&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17341)

pic5 This is the final stage before the leaf begins weakening. Here you can see black patches, specks, or streaks starting to turn grey. http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=17342&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17342)

lorax
05-14-2009, 12:45 AM
It's Sigatoka allright. Can I use some of your photos in the upcoming BQ article on it?

proletariatcsp
05-14-2009, 01:09 AM
It's Sigatoka allright. Can I use some of your photos in the upcoming BQ article on it?

:waving:Ouch! I was hoping you would say it was not Sigatoka. If nothing else, maybe the pics will help others in FL too, so, use the pics however you need.

I'm not cutting this nanner yet, I have grown it for too long, and no one else in my area is growing any bananas that it can spread to. What is really dissappointing is that all 3 of the pups are now showing symptoms too, and if it truely is SIgatoka, my banana growing dreams are over. Looks like its pineapples only from now on.

Chris in FL.

Bananaman88
05-14-2009, 06:13 AM
Sorry to hear that it's Sigatoka.

Caloosamusa
05-14-2009, 08:38 AM
Do NOT cut down your banana! Sigatoka is NOT a lethal disease AND it is treatable!!!!!

Black sigatoka greatly reduces fruit production. Once the infected leaf is so badly damaged is does not carry on photosynthesis cut the leaf, but before the infection sets in, spray either with a nutritional spray containing copper sulfate or a copper sulfate only spray. Be sure to follow container instructions!!! I have three varieties that are not resistant to sigatoka, and they are all infected, but using the above remedy they do well. Check out my photo gallery, I think I still have a few infection shots, and all those banana plants are doing well!

If you follow these suggestions, Black sigatoka is not lethal and can be effectively delt with!!! :2239:

just j
05-14-2009, 08:56 AM
what is the cure for this and i have the same looking black on a thia black tc from agristarts the plant isnt even a foot tall and showing this on the bottom leaves

lorax
05-14-2009, 09:02 AM
Chris, DON'T CUT THEM DOWN. It's a controllable disease, not a death sentence! Like Caloosa says, Copper Sulfate or CuSO4 Nutritional will keep the fungus in check. There are also preventative measures - make sure the ground around your bananas is either bare or with low plants that don't hold moisture, and dispose of your dead leaves far away from your nanners.

You need 10 leaves to ensure good bunch production, so you can trash anything older than the newest 10 and still be in good shape vis a vis your fruit.

sunfish
05-14-2009, 09:48 AM
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=17349&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17349&ppuser=2868)


Is this black sigatoka

Caloosamusa
05-14-2009, 10:02 AM
Good morning Sunfish,

It could be and judging by the looks of the leaves in the background it probably is. Use a nutritional spray containing Copper sulfate (CuSO4). I am going to post new pictures of my "infected" cultivars. They are doing well.
Don't be too disheartened this is treatable. Best wishes.

It looks like the California AgroNazis did not prevent this disease from entering their "pure" state. :2239:

sunfish
05-14-2009, 10:09 AM
Good morning. This is a white iholene that I got as a pup growing here in San Diego.

Caloosamusa
05-14-2009, 10:41 AM
Thanks Tony, my Red Iholena has some but it is not as suceptable to the disease as some other cultivars like SH 3640 and Kofi. Most of the bananas I grow are resistant to Black Sigatoka.

Sigatoka presents itself most during the wet season, and the winter if I remember correctly is the wet season in California, with an ocasional summer thunderstorm. Best wishes. :2239:

lorax
05-14-2009, 11:30 AM
I'm just going to poke my nose in here and be shamelessly commercial for a second.

If any of you haven't subscribed yet to Bananas Quarterly, you might want to. Issue 2 has an in-depth special on Black Sigatoka, its causes, and how to control / treat it.

Bananaman88
05-14-2009, 12:05 PM
I'm just going to poke my nose in here and be shamelessly commercial for a second.

If any of you haven't subscribed yet to Bananas Quarterly, you might want to. Issue 2 has an in-depth special on Black Sigatoka, its causes, and how to control / treat it.

:woohoonaner: You go, Beth! Nothing wrong with a little promotion- especially here on our own site!

proletariatcsp
05-14-2009, 08:49 PM
Thank you all for the advice. I read up on the UHawaii and have been trying to cut off the infected areas of the leaves without taking down too much. The plant is at 10ft of psuedo now, but there are not ten healthy leaves. I understand BSigatoka is not systemic, so I let the leaves break on their own as long as they aren't touching each other.

I have tried a systemic fungicide already with no success. Halt Systemic rose, flower, lawn, ornamental fungicide =

Dimethyl 4, 4-0-phenylenebis(3-thioallophanate). . . 50% I don't think it has copper though.

Thanks again, Chris in FL.

Rmplmnz
05-14-2009, 09:42 PM
Either my banana is not 'Ice Cream" or Ice Cream is not as resistant to Sigatoka as many claim.

I am so angry right now. I can't stand the lousy chemically-induced bananas at the grocery store. They are blan and have a terrible perfume-like aftertaste. Does anyone even test grocery store bananas to see what the toxicity levels are? And I know they drench them in fungicides for shipping because the stem is the last part to rot.

Well maybe by some miracle my bananas will die a slow and painful death, only to tease me with a half-developed bunch tangling before it falls.


UPDATE: See Pictures below

You are not far from me, I would be happy to give you an Ice Cream corm.

mskitty38583
05-14-2009, 11:36 PM
ok just because im still new at the nana thing, can the black sig. be treated like black spot on roses with a mix of baking soda and water???? or can it only be treated with the copper?

proletariatcsp
05-15-2009, 12:39 AM
You are not far from me, I would be happy to give you an Ice Cream corm. -Rmplmnz

I might take you up on that, but I have a 6ft pup growing next to the parent, so I'm going to try the copper for now. I have spent so much time and money on this nanner to just give up now. Only thing is, where do I find the copper?

I imagine the soil in Tampa is probably the same as Largo. My bananas are not getting the right fert, and until recently, I didn't know the pH was terribly high. I have begun adding sulfur and pH Down in small amounts about a month ago, so far this method has realized a drop from 8 to 7-7.5. It is moving really slow. I have also tried various citrus and/or palm fertilizers, the last was 16-8-16. I think the grass is stealing most of it from around the mat, and now I am afraid these products contain way too much salt because the old leaf sheaths are peeling away from the psuedostem while they are still green. I'd really appcreciate any advice you can give me.

Chris in FL

lorax
05-15-2009, 12:48 AM
MsKitty, I never thought of it that way. Rose black spot is also fungal, so it's worth a try!

Caloosamusa
05-15-2009, 10:58 AM
Most garden centers have copper sulfate in liquid solution, the easiest application form. Just dilute it per directions on the label. It is toxic to the plant if too strong(concentrated). Good growing!! :2239:

proletariatcsp
05-17-2009, 12:07 AM
I just wanted to update some Sigatoka info regarding FL. I think Rmplmnz said he was not aware of Sigatoka in FL, and perhaps, other members are not either.

In October 1998, symptoms of black Sigatoka (2) were observed on several different cultivars in a collection at the University of Florida's Tropical Research and Education Center (TREC) in Homestead (25°30(prime) N, 80°30(prime) W). During preliminary surveys, the disease was found at four of eight locations in a 15 km(^2) area to the north of TREC. Disease severity, rated as the youngest leaf spotted (YLS), averaged 4.8 on the most susceptible cultivar, Rajapuri, at one of the locations. The extent and history of damage at this site indicated that black Sigatoka had been there for at least 3 to 4 years. The prevailing east to west winds in the Caribbean, and highly variable incidence and severity of the disease also suggested that the pathogen had been introduced to the area on infected seed pieces (suckers) rather than by wind or rainblown ascospores from Cuba or other affected areas (1). The presence of the disease was confirmed after the following characteristics of the pathogen's anamorph, Paracercospora fijiensis, were observied on affected leaves: simple conidiophores occurring singly or in groups of two to six with one to several septa, scars, and usually a broadened base; and conidia much more abundant on lower leaf surfaces, straight to variously bent with one to several septa and a conspicuous scar at the base. Single-ascospore cultures were recovered from Rajapuri and are stored at CIRAD/FLHOR in Montpellier. This is the first time black Sigatoka has been reported in the continental United States. Banana is a minor but significant tropical fruit crop in southern Florida, with fruit valued at over $2.5 million per annum. Production from Hua moa, Silk, and other important cultivars will probably be affected as the disease becomes established in this part of the state. First Report of Black Sigatoka in Florida. (http://www.apsnet.org/journals/extra/Examples/pdnotewithpix.asp)


HS10/MG040: Banana Growing in the Florida Home Landscape (http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/MG040)

Chris P.

Rmplmnz
05-17-2009, 09:14 AM
Bummer...

Simply Bananas
05-17-2009, 09:54 AM
While not a about Black Sig, here is a story from out local paper about a citrus disease going around:
Doomed lemon trees leave man a bit bitter - The Post and Courier (http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2009/may/16/doomed_lemon_trees_leave_man_bit_bitter82564/)

Doomed lemon trees leave man a bit bitter

If life gives you lemons, don't tell the state.

They will not offer you any lemon aid.

Pat Mellen learned that the hard way, when Clemson extension agents showed up at his downtown house recently with a leaf plucked off one of his lemon trees.

While passing by, they noticed the tree — which sits behind the wall around his house — appeared to be infected with citrus greening, a disease that U.S. officials fear could devastate the nation's citrus crops all the way to California. Already, the disease has taken a toll on crops in Asia, Africa and South America.

Mellen said his mistake was letting them in, where they found traces of the disease on both his trees. Now, they are slated to be cut down and Mellen has no recourse, no way to appeal the decision.

He's had one of the trees for 16 years, and every year it gives him two bushels of the sweetest lemons you ever tasted.

"If I was a serial killer moving state to state on my way to California, I'd have more rights than I do right now," Mellen said Friday, just before agents showed up to spray his trees — a precursor to cutting them down. "I offered to let them use one of the trees for testing, asked them to let me have one more season, but they said no."

Chris Ray, head of Clemson's Department of Plant Industry, said there is little he can do. The state is under quarantine, and the law says they must destroy any infected tree, lest it help the disease — carried by bugs the size of gnats — to spread.

In a recent canvass of downtown Charleston, they only found the disease in two places: Mellen's house and another private residence a few blocks away.

"We don't relish the idea of going and cutting anyone's trees, but that's the only thing we can do," Ray said. "We couldn't bring them back to health. They're going do die. It's a matter of when, not if."

Mellen is upset because lemon trees take a long time to grow, and he fears he'll never have another one. Of the two trees, one produces a number of lemons, and they still taste great. Eating fruit off trees with the disease won't hurt you, but the disease discolors the fruit.

Mainly, Mellen feels helpless, and is understandably not a fan of laws you can't argue against. But that's the government.

He got a brief reprieve Friday, when agents decided it was too windy to spray. But they will be back. Nothing can save his trees. Mellen is trying not to be as bitter as store-bought lemons.

"I have nothing against Clemson," Mellen said, "but I wish they could play football."

Rmplmnz
05-17-2009, 10:13 AM
Citrus greening is a very serious issue and has the potential to wipe citrus out of Florida and other states. Florida is already seeing a huge decline in citrus production. The groves near where I work have been turned in to planned developments or abandoned (the fruit is left to rot).

USA Today article form 2007 on greening:

Disease threatens Fla. citrus industry - USATODAY.com (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-10-01-citrus_N.htm)

From the web:

In which direction is Florida headed?

In 1998, Florida had 785,900 acres of trees that produced 13,583 tons of citrus.

Last year, Florida had 554,400 acres of trees that produced 7,236 tons of citrus.

Florida Citrus Industry Fights for Survival A1A South (http://swampie.wordpress.com/2008/06/09/florida-citrus-industry-fights-for-survival/)

Rmplmnz
05-17-2009, 10:56 AM
"Simply Bananas"

Ok, I have to ask...the bananas in your avatar..what are they?

Very nice BTW!

proletariatcsp
05-18-2009, 12:33 AM
Are we just going to run out of good fruit to eat, or what? I am really glad I didn't buy a fifty-dollar orange tree that I wanted.

I was thinking about where the Sigatoka could have come from. I know the article says they originally suspected it was air borne from the carribean but they thought it was more likely to have come from infected planting material. For the infection in Homestead 1990's that might be true.

For me, I have not received any new planting material. I bought my banana with about 8 or 10 leaves and it did not have any leaf spots. I find wild bananas all the time and I have never seen Sigatoka on them. I was stumped as to where I could have gotten Sigatoka from. Then, one day I was sitting outside eating a store bought banana and it dawned on me!

I must have tossed the peel by the bushes and touched my ice creams without washing my hands. Son-of-a-seeded-nanner. You would think that bananas would come with a warning label about Sigatoka and hand washing right under the words "Chiquita" if, the industry gave a **** about the continual spread of the disease right?

What do you guys think?

Chris P.:03:

mskitty38583
05-18-2009, 12:36 AM
they dont want to give any warnings like that. most people would get parnoid and quit buying the produce.

proletariatcsp
05-19-2009, 10:02 AM
they dont want to give any warnings like that. most people would get parnoid and quit buying the produce.

Yeah thats probably true. BTW, I bought a systemic fungicide specifically for Black Spot on Roses, it may have been beneficial to the bananas but it does not do anything to treat Black Sigatoka. Black Spot is a mold-like fungus like Sigatoka but they are two very different problems. The systemic fungal does not contain copper and was therefore, inaffective. According to members and internet research, commercial plantations use copper as the main treatment and prevention of Sigatoka, so I would imagine copper and infected leaf removal (detrashing) are probably the only treatments, period.

Good luck with your nannas this season MSKITTY,

Chris P

supermario
05-19-2009, 10:31 AM
I had a few citrus trees succumb to citrus greening. I destroyed them immediately to try and avoid my last 3 remaining citrus trees from enduring the same fate. It is indeed a serious problem as SEVERAL local nurseries do not carry them anymore. I personally give up as well. If they get the disease, they will be replaced with another tropical. :02:

As for the Sig.. don't worry. They sell 'Liquid Copper Fungicide' in pint-sized containers at any Home Depot. You can find gallon jugs online as well. I use an ortho sprayer with a dial for measuring.

just j
05-19-2009, 08:06 PM
can some one tell me if this could be black sig. its on my new thia black only on the bottom leaves i got it from wellsprings on ebay wondering if anybody else bought one of these from them and had the same markings

lorax
05-19-2009, 08:07 PM
No. If it were Sig it would be manifesting in the new growth.

just j
05-19-2009, 08:08 PM
if it is how is it transmitted from plant to plant

just j
05-19-2009, 08:11 PM
im in wisconsin so i didnt think it was sig. but can i bring it into my house true plants i ship in from other places and do the leaves have to touch or is this plague air born or what

supermario
05-19-2009, 08:15 PM
Hey Lorax, good to see you here on the good ol' world wide web. We've discussed gardening before on 'the helpful gardener forum'. Haven't been on there as often though. Hope all is well! :0517:

lorax
05-19-2009, 11:10 PM
J, Sigatoka is a fungus and there are two means of transmission - by air and by contact; the first route allows fairly wide dispersal and the second is dependant upon contact with infected material. There are also a very specific set of conditions that favour the growth of the fungus. However, it's highly unlikely that it's made it all the way to Wisconsin.

sunfish
06-01-2009, 02:16 PM
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=17916&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17916&ppuser=2868)


What ever caused the black marking on my plant wasn't Black Sigtka. I didn't spray and all new leaves are clear of any black .

Simply Bananas
06-01-2009, 03:21 PM
"Simply Bananas"

Ok, I have to ask...the bananas in your avatar..what are they?

Very nice BTW!



LOL...thanks. Its just an avatar that I found online.

just j
06-01-2009, 09:18 PM
J, Sigatoka is a fungus and there are two means of transmission - by air and by contact; the first route allows fairly wide dispersal and the second is dependant upon contact with infected material. There are also a very specific set of conditions that favour the growth of the fungus. However, it's highly unlikely that it's made it all the way to Wisconsin.

what if u bought a infected plant

supermario
06-01-2009, 11:46 PM
It's my understanding that sigatoga is NOT lethal even if left unchecked. I have sprayed in the past with fungicides just to ensure the upper leaves stay healthy, but I usually see the lower leaves develop yellow and black spots before dropping..or before I cut them. Now if you see the signs on all leaves of the plant, I would imagine that this would affect fruit production.... just a guess though.

Now, I have a question about sigatoga. It seems as though the problem develops on it's own in addition to being infected by other plants. I think...and again, this is just a guess since I am no expert...that heat and humidity contribute to the development of the diseases... like anthracnose in Avocados and Mangos here in FL.

So, my question is...Have any of you seen symptoms of sigatoga on trees grown in a greenhouse?

Also, please feel free to correct me and add information on the subject. :nanadrink:

proletariatcsp
06-02-2009, 04:31 PM
It looks strikingly similar to mine. Sigatoka seems to be a real sensitive topic lately, so, I will keep my opinions to myself. Your newest leaf looks great so I would follow with "Lorax's" advice and remove the entire leaf and dispose of it far away from your plants or compost pile. There is something streaking your leaf, but some of that browning is also from the wind damage.

These problems seem to be compounded by extended periods of overcast and rain which allow some diseases to thrive. I can't tell from you pic, but if you haven't already mulched around your banana, doing so now will greatly help to reduce future diseases spread by host plants growing around the psuedostem. Mulch a good 2-4 inches deep and 3-4 ft out to control the weeds and grass.

Good luck, and I wouldn't worry much because its warm again and your banana should quickly outgrow the problems from early Spring.

Chris P.