View Full Version : keeping Bananas warm.
lt_eggbeater
10-13-2008, 06:09 PM
Any suggestions for keeping bananas warm? Its doesn't get artic cold here so I just need to give them a little help when the temps dip to the high 20's for a few hours every once in a while. I have used coleman gas lanterns before they throw off quite a bit of heat. But It's a real pain to pump up 40 lanterns and then repump and pressurise again at 3 am! I was thinking maybe tiki torches or something? Less heat but light once and they will burn the whole night. I am not sure how well the Christmas light deal works either. Any proven ideas are welcome.
JCDerrick
10-13-2008, 06:21 PM
I've never tried it, but lots of folks recommend the Christmas lights. So that may be your best option.
lt_eggbeater
10-13-2008, 07:26 PM
I guess that might save the stem but it wouldnt help the leaves I dont think. I think you have to use those old style lights also and not the smaller modern ones.
cedardave
10-14-2008, 07:46 AM
I use a couple of infared patio heater to keep my bananas warm at this time of year. The heat radiates and warms a 10 by 9 foot area.
lt_eggbeater
10-14-2008, 11:42 AM
That won't work for me I have them spread out over about an acre. I would need about 20 patio heaters!
pitangadiego
10-14-2008, 01:24 PM
electric blanket?
lt_eggbeater
10-14-2008, 01:27 PM
lol! any rain might be a big prob with that one!
JCDerrick
10-14-2008, 01:31 PM
lol! any rain might be a big prob with that one!
Good way to keep stray dogs (or possibly anything alive) off your lawn though, LOL
lt_eggbeater
10-14-2008, 01:49 PM
I already have the sniper tower for that one lol!
harveyc
10-14-2008, 11:25 PM
If you don't have fussy neighbors and don't care what Al Gore thinks, you might be able to find some old used smudge pots. I was going to buy some last year for about $20 since growers generally don't use them anymore. You can just burn used motor oil (which my local car dealer gave me for free when I ran out), though I don't recommend inhaling the fumes!
Chironex
10-14-2008, 11:38 PM
I'll be interested in the responses, too. Perhaps some black plastic on the ground under each would help slightly, especially if it was held in place by stones. The Christmas tree lights are the most practical, you're going to lose some leaves I imagine, but they will grow back as long as the pstem survives.
hydrojeff
10-15-2008, 05:51 AM
i used the christmas lights last year are they seemed to help a little, but i dont think enough to do again this year...
tophersmith
10-15-2008, 09:19 AM
Once FreezePruf is relased, (sometime next month) I beleive it will help quote a bit.
lt_eggbeater
10-15-2008, 09:24 AM
Once FreezePruf is relased, (sometime next month) I beleive it will help quote a bit.
Hopefully sooner than later the combination of temp drops and high winds are shredding the bananas here.
microfarmer
10-16-2008, 01:41 PM
I'm with Chironex on the black plastic. If you want to keep the leaves, you'll have to keep the frost off them, and keep the plants warm enough to use the sunlight hitting the leaves (IE: growing slightly).
edd82
10-17-2008, 07:07 AM
Does anyone know of any UK suppliers selling FreezePruf?
harveyc
10-17-2008, 11:05 AM
Does anyone know of any UK suppliers selling FreezePruf?
It's not yet sold anywhere (it's supposed to be available in the U.S. in late fall) and I doubt it would be in the UK this year. Perhaps, if it becomes very popular here, it could find a distributor there.
harveyc
10-17-2008, 11:11 AM
You might also find an idea or two here!
Frost protection: fundamentals, practice, and economics - Volume 1 (http://www.fao.org/docrep/008/y7223e/y7223e00.htm#Contents)
bencelest
10-20-2008, 08:51 AM
Harvey:
What happened to your plan buying the vent less natural gas heaters?
I just ordered one new and see what it will do me.
20k BTU. with built-in thermostat. Cost $129 plus shipping.
I am building an enclosed banana shed with all glass cover on top (installed already). 12foot high.
Benny
harveyc
10-20-2008, 09:32 AM
Hi Benny, I did buy two of them and have one running in my greenhouse now. I paid about $120 for two, including shipping. One didn't run very well but then I cleaned the nozzle of build-up and it ran fine (the seller sent me a link to an online manual, fortunately).
It took me a while to figure out why I was having problems with it staying running, though. I discovered (and fortunately survived!) that I did not have enough fresh air coming in! So now I have that solved but I am going to work on trying to figure out how to hook up yet another heater that was given to me by a commercial grower. It would be mounted outside and has a blower so I could spread the heat around more evenly and not worry about the ventilation. Unfortunately, no manual came with it and I need to figure out how to wire it. I probably just need to go shopping for a heater some day and look for similar connections and guess from there.
chong
10-20-2008, 03:07 PM
Harvey,
What does that other heater look like? Does it run on Propane or NG? What is the brand and model number?
bencelest
10-21-2008, 01:33 AM
Harveys:
Thanks for the input.
I just got mine today brand new. It has a built-in blower and thermostat.
So I guess I am alright. I still have to test it.
But you are lucky to get ones so cheap.
But for the banana sake I guess I will go through an extra mile to get them through this coming winter.
It says in the manual it will warm a 30x20 foot room.
harveyc
10-21-2008, 01:50 AM
Chong - I didn't see a tag when I looked briefly today but hope to have more time tomorrow and will maybe take a photo to send you. I think it has about 4 wires for a thermostat (?) and then the blower power source. It runs on natural gas, the only way I'd go in my situation.
Benny - mine did not come with a blower, so that's nice to have. I just use a box fan to blow the air around in my greenhouse. I don't believe ventless heaters are legal to sell to California residents, by the way. I imagine your entire structure was done without permits (like me), so no sense in stopping there. ;)
Good luck,
Harvey
bencelest
10-21-2008, 03:43 AM
I call mine temporary shed. heh-heh.It is stand alone and no sidings yet. I plan to just put 6 mil plastics on the sides and put the heater inside.
I know it is not air tight and so there should have a air exchange from the outside air. If the city fathers want me to tear it down, it will be very easy since all I am using are deck screws to put the studs together.
I'll post pics soon.
stumpy4700
10-21-2008, 04:02 AM
Hey Benny, It sounds like we have the same architech. I've made a 8 ft by 8ft cube. I still have to wrap it in the plastic. I went to the orange cube store and found the 6 mil plastic but it looked like it was white in color not clear. Will this matter? Also how much are you watering the plants in there?
stumpy4700
10-21-2008, 04:03 AM
Also what is the ideal temp at night for these nanas to overwinter?
bencelest
10-21-2008, 04:25 AM
Stumpy:
Bananas are hardy so don't worry too much about them. The ideal tempt is about 70 and up to 98 I would guess but to me all I want is to get them through the winter so anything 40 or above is alright with me. But this time I will probably set the tempt at 50. It is a little bit low but the leaves will stay green all winter.
I worry more about the electric or gas bill to tell you the truth.
Watering? Again I don't worry about it. I just 'flood' them when I see that the 3 inches of soil is dry or when I see that the leaves starting to wilt. Some say that keep the soil moist but I don''t know what moist means. The worst is overmoisting them and what you got is rut roots.
In the winter, you've got to take it easy on watering because of low tempt. They will not die even if they are bone dry because their metabolism are slow.
I'd prepare semi neglect them. I just watch out for bugs and snails.
And I don't go by the books. I just play it by ear.
And come to think of it. I used those white plastics before to cover my bananas and they did real OK. No leaves were browned but stayed green all winter long. But also I used Christmas lights at night. This time I will try to stay away from C. lights.
I have experienced growing citrus and I treat my bananas the same way. So some guru here might correct me on this.
Thanks for asking.
stumpy4700
10-21-2008, 05:22 AM
Thanks, That was what I was thinking. I was going to judge the water by the leaves. I'd rather go on the dry side. I just dont want them to rot.
damaclese
10-21-2008, 07:03 AM
you guys may find this hard to believe but after living in NV for years now one of the things i do for some of my marginal plants is i have allot of natural stones and they absorb tuns of heat energy during day light Hr they get really hot to the touch even during the winter i place them under plants at night its kinda a lot of work moving them but you don't have to move them that far any way they do a good job for at least haft the night some times there still silty warm in the mornings i wouldn't recommend you leave them in place during the hot months i would think this couple with some Christmas lights and night time cover would do the trick in zone 9 and hey the warmth from the sun is free!!!! always a bonus if you ask me .this is only going to work were the sun is intense like here in NV and AZ i discoverd this trick when i notesed that the anuals that i planted nexst to the front side walk always made it throue the winter i checked the sidwalk one moning with my hand it was 20 degres that night the side walk prity warm to the tuch at 4am so i had this pial of stons and i checked them that moning and they were still warm to so that the story. just as a side note im sure all of you have heard of the Anastozi native pepols of north amarica that built there dwelings high up on the sids of blufs were the sun hits them in the winter moths same principal
harveyc
10-21-2008, 11:27 AM
I haven't taken the bite yet, but I can get lots of medium blue 50 gallon plastic barrels for free and I've thought of using these (filled with water) as heat banks in the winter. I wish they were black but, for free, a medium shade of blue is probably okay. They are given away by a dairy supply place (most previously contained copper sulfate, if I recall correctly). I've cut some in half to use as large cheap sturdy pots but am not sure I want to deal with the disposal some day of 20 or so barrels and they are admitted somewhat unsightly. Still, it's an option to consider and they can give off heat over a bigger area (higher up) than the stones, but the same principle which Pauly is talking about.
One of these days I may build myself a nice greenhouse near a gas well which is located on my farm. The company that owns the well has a large engine compressor to pressurize the gas before putting into the distribution lines and the heat from that engine is very significant and just wasted. I spoke to the service company that maintains the compressor and they have an old piece of equipment they can give me that could hook up to the compressor and from there I could run radiant heat through the neighboring greenhouse for free. It is an old well, though, and does get shut down for a few days every once in a while. Just a dream for now...
Benny, I did call the county building department and they told me if I only had poly film, no rigid covering, etc. for the roof, that a permit was not required as long as I did not have electrical wiring (I just use an extension cord). However, they did tell me that I should come in and show them what I was talking about and they would charge me about $200 to give me an exemption certificate. I decided to skip that step since I figured the risk of getting caught for not complying with such a ridiculous requirement was not very great.
bencelest
10-21-2008, 06:00 PM
Harvey:
I am with you on that one.
If you don't take risk you won't get rich.
Even though, I take risk and I am still not rich.
Chironex
10-21-2008, 06:28 PM
Getting back to eggbeater's situation, I was giving this some thought after reading several suggestions. What would you think of combining some of the ideas here. One thing you DO have there in AZ is a high solar intensity. So, I was thinking of a circulating system of black hoses wrapped around the pstems, all connected in a giant loop. This would require a circulating pump or two in order to give you enough pressure to reach the heights of your pstems. This could be an open design with a collecting basin lined with black plastic and filled with rocks. There would be an inlet and an outlet from and to the basin. Passive solar will heat the water and you would circulate it via the pumps. These could be on a thermostat or timer to run only on demand, reducing the energy costs. It would operate much like a solar/radiator heating system for houses.
I would think that it would be inexpensive to build. The most costly components would be the pumps. Best of all, it could be turned into a humidifier in the summer and all of the hose could be stored. Simply turn a diverter valve to recirculate and make your own waterfall. You could even grow some koi in it.
chong
10-21-2008, 10:01 PM
Scot,
They have that kind of system all over Las Vegas. Checkout the rooftops with those solar collectors. They use it mostly for swimming pool heaters, but there's nothing to keep you from putting a diverter valve to your greenhouse, or for your home for that matter. This is the most energy efficient form of heating.
Some of the systems there do not even have pumps, just relying on natural convection, i.e., as the fluid medium is heated, it has a tendency to rise. And as the pressure builds up at the top, it is forced to flow up. The return pipe is connected to the top end of the loop and the buoyancy of the warmer liquid forces the liquid to flow up as the cooler liquid is being drawn. The warm liquid continues down to the heat exchanger, where it is cooled down by either water or air from a fan.
Kits are readily available in AZ, CA, and NV for either pumped or convection systems. Get a brochure for them and you can just copy the system and DIY. If you DIY, one thing to make sure of, is that you need to have an over-pressure relief valve to ensure that you do not damage your pipes. I'm sure the kits will have them already.
Unfortunately, in the Seattle area, this system will not pay off.
Chong
lt_eggbeater
10-21-2008, 11:51 PM
I would need quite a few feet of tubing to cover all of the bananas in my yard. I'm not sure I'm as committed as some of you guys.
harveyc
10-22-2008, 12:15 AM
My wife would like to have me committed, alright.... ;)
lt_eggbeater
10-22-2008, 12:27 AM
My wife would like to have me committed, alright.... ;)
I hear you. I am not nearly that carried away and my wife already thinks I'm an idiot.
Chironex
10-22-2008, 12:52 AM
Scot,
They have that kind of system all over Las Vegas. Checkout the rooftops with those solar collectors. They use it mostly for swimming pool heaters, but there's nothing to keep you from putting a diverter valve to your greenhouse, or for your home for that matter. This is the most energy efficient form of heating.
Some of the systems there do not even have pumps, just relying on natural convection, i.e., as the fluid medium is heated, it has a tendency to rise. And as the pressure builds up at the top, it is forced to flow up. The return pipe is connected to the top end of the loop and the buoyancy of the warmer liquid forces the liquid to flow up as the cooler liquid is being drawn. The warm liquid continues down to the heat exchanger, where it is cooled down by either water or air from a fan.
Kits are readily available in AZ, CA, and NV for either pumped or convection systems. Get a brochure for them and you can just copy the system and DIY. If you DIY, one thing to make sure of, is that you need to have an over-pressure relief valve to ensure that you do not damage your pipes. I'm sure the kits will have them already.
Unfortunately, in the Seattle area, this system will not pay off.
Chong
Well, there go my patent royalties.
And eggbeater, I had another thought. It might not look great, but you could wrap the pstems in that paper gardening tape, just turn the black side out. It should keep the frost off and the heat in.
endeitz
10-22-2008, 12:47 PM
I am going to try something this year that is similar in concept to the "walls of water" people use to start their tomatoes early.
The plan is to use several pieces of 1" pvc pipe stood on end (capped at the bottom) around the p-stem after the first leaf-killing frost. The pvc pipes will be filled with water, then the whole thing wrapped in bubble wrap. My hope is that:
1. The water in the pipes keeps the temperature near 32F longer for those really cold nights (it gets as low as 15F here).
2. The water in the pipes will help buffer the daytime temperature inside the bubble wrap, as not to fry the p-stems during the warmer days.
3. The PVC pipes hold the bubble-wrap far enough away from the p-stem so that at least some of it can get a little air circulation.
I have only a few bananas (all of the "cold-tolerantish" varieties), including Orinoco, Brazilian, Saba, and Basjoo, so it is reasonably cheap for me to try this. I will take pictures and post them after our first light freeze sets the wheels in motion.
Cheers,
Ed.
stumpy4700
10-22-2008, 01:13 PM
ENDEITZ, That sounds like a great idea. :nanadrink: I might try that around one of the Basjoo's closest to the house. I better hurry before you patent the idea and make millions off of us ORG fanatics. :ha::ha::ha:
If any one is interested,Elliot Colemans' books "Four Season Harvest" and "The New organic Grower" ( both dedicated to organic vegetable culture) have excellent ideas regarding season extension of vegetable crops that could , in theory be converted to use for bananas. Depending how crazy you want to get, and face it I've been reading your comments, there are plenty of ideas including some that have been mentioned here such as barrels full of water to provide radiant heat, southern exposure, movable hoop houses wind breaks, cold frames(for a cut off corm perhaps), remay. For one example Elliot mentions that for each layer of certain protection you give ,essentially moves plants 1 1/2 zones higher. Theoretically for me in zone 6 if I cut a P-stem to the ground covered it with remay and had that in a glass covered cold frame that would put my corm in zone 9. not a bad investment in time and money I'd say.
vBulletin® v3.6.8, Copyright ©2000-2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.