questions- seeds & 1 scientific q

[Lodewijkp]

hi all

ok i have some sikkimensis seeds for 3 months they won't germinate and im angry .

i need some info in temperature regimes

since a week or two i have acces to temp fluctations , my regime is about 10 hours 25 C' and 10 hours 15C'.

before those two weeks i stored the seeds at room temp but nothing happened.

1. so what are your temperature regimes and how long did it take for those sikkimensis seeds to germinate ?

then i got a question about the E.ventrosicum i have them for about 3 months and nothing germinated, i have them on room temp 20 C'

2. so what are the temp regimes for Ensete.V and how long did it take until they sprout ?

i got alot of experience with palm seeds.
My only conclusion with nana seeds is that it sucks and i takes long + most seeds even the fresh are not always viable.
i believe there are reasons for this but im not going to press that i only got 1 question :

3. if a animal eats this seed it wil get in the stomach with acid where the Ph wil be about 0 - 1 PH wil this acid bath do anything ?
my point is scientific ; what is the rate of seeds germination after a bird ate it and pooped it out ?

maybe a 24 soak in warm lemon juice or lime juice wil help ? or wil it destroy the seeds ? maybe a 38 soak in warm water and a 10 hour soak in lemon juice ?

[Richard]

Originally Posted by Lodewijkp

... if a animal eats this seed it wil get in the stomach with acid where the pH wil be about 0 - 1 pH ...

Yes, tropical bird stomach acid is 0.1 to 0.3 pH whereas human gastric acid is in the range 1-2 pH. Fresh lemon juice is around 2.25 pH (not Meyer's Lemon, which is Lemon x Orange).

There is a community of researchers trying to simulate digestive actions on seeds for germination. The last article I read concerned folks trying to save tree species on islands where the bird population had been hunted to extinction. The islands are becoming barren because the seeds will apparently not germinate without the birds and the existing trees are dying of old age.

[Gabe15]

Banana seed germination is not fully understood yet. For many species, it does not matter if you give them the best possible conditions or not, they have a predetermined time they will germinate. You can often see this when growing lots of seeds from the same batch, they will sometimes germinate in groups, as in a few might come up in 2 weeks, another group in 2 months, another in 6 months...and so on. Soaking the seeds for at least 2-3days prior to planting helps a lot too. The best thing though seems to just have patience with them, I know of cases where seeds did not germinate for over 2 years.

[inkcube]

Originally Posted by Lodewijkp

maybe a 24 soak in warm lemon juice or lime juice wil help ? or wil it destroy the seeds ? maybe a 38 soak in warm water and a 10 hour soak in lemon juice ?

this amounts to chemical scarification and you will need an acid much stronger than lemon juice. in my lab we tested nitric acid (HNO3), sulfuric acid (H2SO4), hydrochloric acid (HCl) and sodium hydroxide (NaOH). the best effects appeared with 15 minute soak in full strength HNO3, 45% germination on a soilless mix germination, in fact chemical scarification increased the likelihood of microbial contamination - non-treated seeds had a 80% germination rate. we tested M. balbasiana, M. acuminata, and M. sikkimensis and found no statistical difference between species and the chemicals used to scarify.

[Tropicallvr]

Since it is sikkimensis I'd try temps dipping down into the 50'sF(not sure if thats how low your already going).

[Lodewijkp]

thanks for the replies

tropicalvr i dip it to 15 -18 C'

i wil try 10 C' this time

[Richard]

Inkcube: a 90% germination rate is where most people would like to be. Have you previously given your approach in a thread here, or perhaps there is a tech report or published paper somewhere we should all be reading? Thanks!

[Tropicallvr]

About Ensete ventricosum, try temps up into the low 80s-90sF. Don't need much fluctuation, they're easy mostly.