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MV8R
05-06-2013, 05:18 PM
Hello, I'm Steve and I am new here. I've planted lots of fruit trees and plants in the last few years but I'm new to bananas.

I'm in the Atlanta area, Zone 8 but we usually get a week of temps in the teens.

I have an unknown from a local grower, two namwah "ice cream" soon to be planted, and a California Gold on the way.

Out of the most cold hardy varieties, what has been the groups experience with time from flowering to mature/pickable fruit? How many months?

I've been reading a lot here and elsewhere but can't find any information about those that have produced in less than 9 months.

I realize weather during those months is key. Just trying to make the best choices.

Thanks in advance!

oakshadows
05-06-2013, 05:58 PM
move farther south, much farther, for 9 month bananas..........

bananimal
05-08-2013, 12:05 AM
Hello, I'm Steve and I am new here. I've planted lots of fruit trees and plants in the last few years but I'm new to bananas.

I'm in the Atlanta area, Zone 8 but we usually get a week of temps in the teens.

I have an unknown from a local grower, two namwah "ice cream" soon to be planted, and a California Gold on the way.

Out of the most cold hardy varieties, what has been the groups experience with time from flowering to mature/pickable fruit? How many months?

I've been reading a lot here and elsewhere but can't find any information about those that have produced in less than 9 months.

I realize weather during those months is key. Just trying to make the best choices.

Thanks in advance!

U of Ga says Georgia farmers can get a cash crop each year from Viente Cohol. It's a short cycle naner. Get fruit in 9 months if you plant 2 to 3 ft pups after last frost date. End of season dig em up and pot up in greenhouse.

MV8R
05-08-2013, 05:40 AM
Thanks for the heads up Noah, you are very funny guy!

Banimal, I had no idea such a variety existed! I ordered a couple this morning! Thanks!!!!

New Banana for Georgia Beats Cold | Walter Reeves: The Georgia Gardener (http://www.walterreeves.com/food-gardening/new-banana-for-georgia-beats-cold/)

Musa "Veinte Cohol" Banana Tree Plant | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Musa-veinte-cohol-Banana-tree-plant-/370798225447#vi-content)

It pays to ask!

bananimal
05-08-2013, 07:50 AM
Thanks for the heads up Noah, you are very funny guy!

Banimal, I had no idea such a variety existed! I ordered a couple this morning! Thanks!!!!

New Banana for Georgia Beats Cold | Walter Reeves: The Georgia Gardener (http://www.walterreeves.com/food-gardening/new-banana-for-georgia-beats-cold/)

Musa "Veinte Cohol" Banana Tree Plant | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Musa-veinte-cohol-Banana-tree-plant-/370798225447#vi-content)

It pays to ask!

You could have got a couple from me. I recently got a whole mat of VC pups from a club member.

MV8R
05-08-2013, 08:06 AM
I'm definately interested. I could use some for my mom and sister to grow. I imagine yours are bigger than what I just ordered. How do I get some of your VC pups?

sunfish
05-08-2013, 09:21 AM
So are the fruit available in Georgia markets ?

MV8R
05-08-2013, 03:56 PM
I have not noticed at the major chain stores. There is an Asian grocery store here called H Mart, which I plan to visit that may have them. They dried jujubes, dates, and many other interesting foods.

lkstapleton
06-26-2013, 11:10 AM
I'm in San Jose, CA. We get a few nights a year in the 20s. I wrote an article for our California Rare Fruit Growers newsletter about Veinte Cohol two years ago, after interviewing one of the researchers.

There were actually other bananas mentioned n that research. I planted most of them in huge containers on my balconies, which aren't enclosed but are a few degrees warmer than the outside air due to wind protection and heat leakage from the house. Interestingly, VC was the least vigorous grower of the group! Maybe it's because we have very dry heat here.

The others were Kandarian (getting ready to bloom for me), Sweetheart, Dwarf Orin., Ice Cream, Dwarf Namwah and Goldfinger. In my experience, these are much more rapid growers here. They might also work for you, as they are on the cold hardy side.

Lisa

sunfish
06-26-2013, 12:01 PM
I'm in San Jose, CA. We get a few nights a year in the 20s. I wrote an article for our California Rare Fruit Growers newsletter about Veinte Cohol two years ago, after interviewing one of the researchers.

There were actually other bananas mentioned n that research. I planted most of them in huge containers on my balconies, which aren't enclosed but are a few degrees warmer than the outside air due to wind protection and heat leakage from the house. Interestingly, VC was the least vigorous grower of the group! Maybe it's because we have very dry heat here.

The others were Kandarian (getting ready to bloom for me), Sweetheart, Dwarf Orin., Ice Cream, Dwarf Namwah and Goldfinger. In my experience, these are much more rapid growers here. They might also work for you, as they are on the cold hardy side.

Lisa

VC will not take much cold weather.Even here,San Diego it does not like the winter temps.

lkstapleton
06-26-2013, 02:15 PM
Thanks, Tony, that's probably it. We also have cool nights here, even in the summer, so that might also slow it down. And you're right, it seems to get frostbite easily and take a long time to regrow in the spring.

I had had high hopes for VC, but now I'm seeing much better results from California Gold, Kandarian, Dwarf Orin., Ice Cream, and Sweetheart. Kandarian is HUGE, though. I hope it doesn't tip over when it gets a full load of bananas. I have it in a 96-gallon pot, though, which is heavy.

Lisa

MV8R
06-26-2013, 02:52 PM
My VCs and icecreams seem to be growing slowly compared to the Cali Gold. I read that VC should be about two feet high early in the Spring to be able to produce mature fruit by October.

The locally grown unknown plant I bought first is about 4 feet high now, from about one foot high a couple months ago, now with two pups.

sunfish
06-26-2013, 03:55 PM
Thanks, Tony, that's probably it. We also have cool nights here, even in the summer, so that might also slow it down. And you're right, it seems to get frostbite easily and take a long time to regrow in the spring.

I had had high hopes for VC, but now I'm seeing much better results from California Gold, Kandarian, Dwarf Orin., Ice Cream, and Sweetheart. Kandarian is HUGE, though. I hope it doesn't tip over when it gets a full load of bananas. I have it in a 96-gallon pot, though, which is heavy.

Lisa

I think VC needs to over winter indoors even in zone 10

BigBananaBoy
06-26-2013, 07:18 PM
I will find that out with my VC this winter in so cali.....:)

I think VC needs to over winter indoors even in zone 10

bananimal
06-26-2013, 07:44 PM
I've planted two spots with VC. The mama corm and a 4 ft potted pup. Will see how it does this year and also what effect the winter has later on.

Everybody needs to remember this is a little guy. And short cycle too. Fruits at 5 to 6 ft.

BigBananaBoy
06-26-2013, 07:50 PM
Have you tasted the fruit yet Dan?

I've planted two spots with VC. The mama corm and a 4 ft potted pup. Will see how it does this year and also what effect the winter has later on.

Everybody needs to remember this is a little guy. And short cycle too. Fruits at 5 to 6 ft.

sunfish
06-26-2013, 07:54 PM
[QUOTE=
Everybody needs to remember this is a little guy. And short cycle too. Fruits at 5 to 6 ft.[/QUOTE]

Why do we need to remember this ?

blownz281
06-26-2013, 08:12 PM
They had some survive in Georgia during there trials and fruit,from what I read. Mine is almost three feet tall and putting out leaves one right after another. But I plan to dig and place in my greenhouse this winter.

venturabananas
06-26-2013, 08:20 PM
I think VC needs to over winter indoors even in zone 10

I agree. I haven't overwintered mine indoors, but every winter here in zone 10 it gets knocked back. Looks like the main ps-stem is giving up the ghost, but a pup is looking good. Probably until winter rolls around. Not sure I've ever get this one to produce fruit.

All the AA and AAA genome ones I have really don't enjoy even my mild winters where we seldom have frost (none this year). Veinte Cohol and Kluai Khai seem most sensitive of those I have, with Yangambi KM5 and Rose not too far behind.

sunfish
06-26-2013, 08:31 PM
I agree. I haven't overwintered mine indoors, but every winter here in zone 10 it gets knocked back. Looks like the main ps-stem is giving up the ghost, but a pup is looking good. Probably until winter rolls around. Not sure I've ever get this one to produce fruit.

All the AA and AAA genome ones I have really don't enjoy even my mild winters where we seldom have frost (none this year). Veinte Cohol and Kluai Khai seem most sensitive of those I have, with Yangambi KM5 and Rose not too far behind.

It will make it outdoors at my place over winter but it's so beaten up come spring it takes months to get going again.Zone 11 would be good.

lkstapleton
06-26-2013, 08:59 PM
MV8R, since it gets into the teens, you might consider using big containers and putting them on wheels, because you might have to pull them in on your coldest nights.

Lisa

venturabananas
06-27-2013, 11:18 AM
I'm in San Jose, CA...

The others were Kandarian (getting ready to bloom for me), Sweetheart, Dwarf Orin., Ice Cream, Dwarf Namwah and Goldfinger. In my experience, these are much more rapid growers here. They might also work for you, as they are on the cold hardy side.

Lisa, have any of those varieties produced fruit for you? I ask because my mom lives in San Jose, too, and she'd like to replace the non-edible bananas (basjoo and balbisiana) with fruiting ones. I was thinking Dwarf Namwah and Dwarf Brazilian because they are among the least cold sensitive ones I grow, and they taste great and don't get too tall.

-- Mark

lkstapleton
06-27-2013, 01:37 PM
Hi, Mark. I got into growing bananas about three years ago, so a lot of my stuff is still young. I have personally had California Gold and Dwarf Orin. flower, and I think Kandrian will flower in a few weeks. Also, I know someone nearby in Fremont who has grown huge clumps of Ice Cream, Sweetheart and Goldfinger and has gotten enormous hands of bananas. Those are the only varieties where I have absolute proof that it's possible. I am working on Raja Puri, Ice Cream, Monkey Fingers, Veinte Cohol, Manzano, Goldfinger, Sweetheart, and Texas Star, but they are all young.

Lisa

venturabananas
06-27-2013, 04:39 PM
Thanks for the info Lisa. Best of luck with your bananas. -- Mark

sunfish
06-27-2013, 05:05 PM
:pics::woohoonaner:Hi, Mark. I got into growing bananas about three years ago, so a lot of my stuff is still young. I have personally had California Gold and Dwarf Orin. flower, and I think Kandrian will flower in a few weeks. Also, I know someone nearby in Fremont who has grown huge clumps of Ice Cream, Sweetheart and Goldfinger and has gotten enormous hands of bananas. Those are the only varieties where I have absolute proof that it's possible. I am working on Raja Puri, Ice Cream, Monkey Fingers, Veinte Cohol, Manzano, Goldfinger, Sweetheart, and Texas Star, but they are all young.

Lisa

MV8R
06-28-2013, 05:53 AM
Why do we need to remember this ?

Tony,
that sounds like a rhetorical question, however, my understanding as a newbie is that the plants tend to flower at a certain height depending on the type, so a fast grower that flowers at 10 feet maybe no quicker to flower than a slower grower that flowers at 5 feet. If the slower grower has a shorter cycle from flower to fruit, slower growth is not a bad thing.

MV8R
06-28-2013, 06:07 AM
MV8R, since it gets into the teens, you might consider using big containers and putting them on wheels, because you might have to pull them in on your coldest nights.

Lisa

Thanks for the tip. I'm considering designing a lightweight, temporary cover for the smaller palnts for the month or so that temps may dip that low. I have a few thermostatic vents I can install to prevent over heat from ground warmth and sun and the cover would not contact the plants. I have no covenants, home owners association, or city ordinances that would prevent me from doing so.

venturabananas
06-28-2013, 10:19 AM
Tony,
that sounds like a rhetorical question, however, my understanding as a newbie is that the plants tend to flower at a certain height depending on the type, so a fast grower that flowers at 10 feet maybe no quicker to flower than a slower grower that flowers at 5 feet. If the slower grower has a shorter cycle from flower to fruit, slower growth is not a bad thing.

That's an interesting way to think about growth in bananas, and logical, but not at all the way I think about it. I think of growth rate in bananas as the speed at which new leaves are produced -- I suspect most other banana growers do, too. Given that there is a genetically determined number of leaves that will be produced before a flower bud is initiated, it is more informative than height, at least in that height at flowering can be quite variable for a cultivar depending on the environmental conditions it experiences.

sunfish
06-28-2013, 11:23 AM
Tony,
that sounds like a rhetorical question, however, my understanding as a newbie is that the plants tend to flower at a certain height depending on the type, so a fast grower that flowers at 10 feet maybe no quicker to flower than a slower grower that flowers at 5 feet. If the slower grower has a shorter cycle from flower to fruit, slower growth is not a bad thing.

or Vice-versa.

robert0514
06-29-2013, 06:49 AM
Maybe try miss bordelon, flowers within 6 months even if it has died back over winter however the quality of the fruit varies from plant to plant, so sometimes it won't be edible.

PR-Giants
05-22-2014, 10:41 AM
Tony,
that sounds like a rhetorical question, however, my understanding as a newbie is that the plants tend to flower at a certain height depending on the type, so a fast grower that flowers at 10 feet maybe no quicker to flower than a slower grower that flowers at 5 feet. If the slower grower has a shorter cycle from flower to fruit, slower growth is not a bad thing.

Height and growth cycles depend on genetics, buts also on plant crop, first ratoon, and second ratoon. Within a cultivar, cycle times from plant to bloom can vary dramatically, while flower to fruit cycle times are more constant.

"There are considerable variations between cultivars in terms of time taken before flowering, time taken from flowering to bunch maturity and total time from planting to bunch maturity. This can be explained by the innate genetic variability of these cultivars. Banana cultivars can generally be categorized as early, medium and late maturing ones. It is, however, interesting to note that cultivars which took shorter time to shooting, are also normally earlier in attaining maturity."

lkstapleton
05-22-2014, 01:18 PM
I have a related question. I have a banana that died back to just the flag leaf and one other small leaf, but the little guy is putting out flowers and bananas. I heard that you need at least 4 or 5 leaves to actually get ripe fruit, so I'm wondering if I shouldn't get my hopes up, or if the fruit could actually ripen? So far, it looks like I have about 30 small ones, about 4 inches long, and the flower looks like it is just getting started. I am not sure of the variety, but I have planted California Gold, Sweetheart, Ice Cream, Goldfinger and Monkey FIngers.

I am in the SF Bay Area, in San Jose, and it's in a very sunny spot.

Lisa

Abnshrek
05-22-2014, 01:23 PM
All you can do is feed it and hope for the best.. If it has pups leave them alone till you get the bounty, and if it doesn't have pups you can feed it a liquid rooting hormone (greenlight), and they will pop up in a hurry or you can use Tony's 1st place Fert.. :^)

venturabananas
05-23-2014, 08:57 AM
I have a banana that died back to just the flag leaf and one other small leaf, but the little guy is putting out flowers and bananas. I heard that you need at least 4 or 5 leaves to actually get ripe fruit, so I'm wondering if I shouldn't get my hopes up, or if the fruit could actually ripen? So far, it looks like I have about 30 small ones, about 4 inches long, and the flower looks like it is just getting started.

It's not a sure thing, but you could get fruit without any leaves. I have, but it probably depends on the health of the corm, the other shoots in the mat, etc.

PR-Giants
05-24-2014, 09:02 AM
That's an interesting way to think about growth in bananas, and logical, but not at all the way I think about it. I think of growth rate in bananas as the speed at which new leaves are produced -- I suspect most other banana growers do, too.


Given that there is a genetically determined number of leaves that will be produced before a flower bud is initiated,


it is more informative than height, at least in that height at flowering can be quite variable for a cultivar depending on the environmental conditions it experiences.



It is always humorous and also a little sad reading a statement like this but hopefully
most readers realize that it is false, there is no genetically predetermined number of
leaves that will be produced before a flower bud is initiated.

A cursory examination of a few mature corms should improve one's
understanding of how and where the bud and leaves are formed.

PR-Giants
05-24-2014, 09:14 AM
It's not a sure thing, but you could get fruit without any leaves. I have, but it probably depends on the health of the corm, the other shoots in the mat, etc.




It is a sure thing, after losing all leaves the plant begins the process of dying. The peduncle/fruiting
stalk will begin to rot and will collapse before any additional significant fruit filling has occurred.

Usually when someone refers to "the other shoots in the mat" as an aid, they are trying to insinuate
that the "plant to mat" or "plant to pups" relationship can exchange nutrients in both directions.
This does not appear to be true, although a dying plant's corm does rot at a significantly slower rate
when connected to pups, this still appears to be an unidirectional exchange of nutrients.

PR-Giants
05-24-2014, 09:21 AM
Feral Williams - Jan 15
http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/keithpr1/FeralWilliamsjan15_zps759d4f8a.jpg (http://s979.photobucket.com/user/keithpr1/media/FeralWilliamsjan15_zps759d4f8a.jpg.html)

Looks good. I will be replacing the datil mat with my Domestic Williams this year.

Hold that thought until you see the uncropped version. :ha::ha::ha:





The Uncropped Versions of Iconic Photos (http://petapixel.com/2012/06/12/the-uncropped-versions-of-iconic-photos/)



http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/keithpr1/Me/FeralWilliamsjan-15_zpscd2ae0cc.jpg (http://s979.photobucket.com/user/keithpr1/media/Me/FeralWilliamsjan-15_zpscd2ae0cc.jpg.html)

venturabananas
05-28-2014, 01:32 AM
It is a sure thing, after losing all leaves the plant begins the process of dying. The peduncle/fruiting
stalk will begin to rot and will collapse before any additional significant fruit filling has occurred.

Usually when someone refers to "the other shoots in the mat" as an aid, they are trying to insinuate
that the "plant to mat" or "plant to pups" relationship can exchange nutrients in both directions.
This does not appear to be true, although a dying plant's corm does rot at a significantly slower rate
when connected to pups, this still appears to be an unidirectional exchange of nutrients.

So you are saying it is a sure thing that there will be no more filling of fingers if all the leaves die? I can assure you that I've had fingers on Dwarf Red and Williams continue to fill with no living leaves, and the peduncle did not rot. My neighbor's Namwa do the same (when her son prunes off any tattered leaves, which results in p-stems with a bunch but no leaves). I won't claim I know where the nutrients are coming from, either from the corm, other plants in the mat, or from the persisting photosynthesizing leaf sheaths on the p-stem with the bunch, but they come from somewhere.

venturabananas
05-28-2014, 01:50 AM
It is always humorous and also a little sad reading a statement like this but hopefully
most readers realize that it is false, there is no genetically predetermined number of
leaves that will be produced before a flower bud is initiated.

A cursory examination of a few mature corms should improve one's
understanding of how and where the bud and leaves are formed.




I think you are probably right. In a bit of searching, I could not find any published research that supported my claim. To be clear, I was not saying that a plant will make some magic number of leaves and then fruit (though you can certainly find stuff on the internet that makes that claim). I was trying to say that some cultivars make more leaves on average before fruiting than others. But as I said, I can't find any data that support that claim. I also could't find any data that refuted it, but I wouldn't bet money on it.

Is it humorous and sad, really? I understand where the meristem is, but that has nothing to do with how many leaves are produced before flower initiation. Unless you count all the leaves produced before flowering by many plants of different varieties, I'm not sure how you could figure out if different varieties make different numbers of leaves. I'm pretty compulsive, but not enough to do the necessary counting. (But the answer is 36 for one Dwarf Brazilian in my yard.)

sandy0225
07-03-2014, 04:51 PM
Someone mentioned border on as a fruiting option. I've bloomed dozens of them, they don't produce fruit at all. So scratch that one, it's only ornamental