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Olafhenny · 01-19-2014, 11:03 PM

Hi again, Tray,

I have now completed my “how to”, proof read it, cleaned it up a bit for easier reading
and posted the whole thing again.

I have a lot of thoughts.
As one, who has done a fair amount of ornamental concrete work, I envy you
this idea and pattern.

First to your question:
No, the tips will not break off. As long as you…

• Carve the whole area for the walkway out of undisturbed soil down to 4 inches
below finished grade, remove all lose dirt and fill the bottom two inches with fairly
clean sand. Soak the sand thoroughly and let it sit for at least two days or until it
has settled down firmly

• Buy one 4X8 feet sheet of 1/8th inch thick hardboard (particle board or whatever
it is called in your region) and cut it on a table saw lengthwise into two inch wide strips.
That should give you about 23 strips or just over 180 lf. – Probably not quite enough,
but you can re-use some of them.

• Get at least 200 ea 18 or 24 inch long stakes. Any contractor for roads and
services or any surveyor can tell you where to get those. Those will probably not be
enough, but while some will be damaged, while pounding them in, most will probably
be re-usable.

• Make sure, that the surface of the sand is completely even and smooth, by
scarifying it with a straight board in all directions.

• Now comes the hard part: You should draw the concept of your pattern with fine
lines in the sand. It helps greatly, if you have drawn up the pattern on a sheet of
paper and can proportion it on the sand patch accordingly.

• Then start with the stems. They should probably be about 5 to 6 inches
wide. The strips should be standing on edge and be secured with stakes no further
than 12“ c/c apart. The trick here is to get the connections between two strips
flawless. That will always take two stakes side by side. It should be flawless on the
visible top, but still a good match further down. Once you have the alignment on one
side fixed, the other side follows easily

• After you have the stems formed and are sure about the proportions for the rest
of the pattern, it is time for the concrete work. You should use for that bagged
construction grade concrete. The dealer may look funny at you, asking for that, but
in some regions they may still sell the much weaker fence post concrete, which is not
enough. Because of the curved pattern of the stems you will not need any expansion
/contraction joints, but due to the length of the stems I would strongly recommend,
that you place two #2 or 3 reinforcing steel all along the stems. For that you place just
enough concrete on the sand to cover it and place the rebars on top. It is important
to put the rebar low, because that is where the tensile stress will be, in case of any
ground settlement. Then, while the concrete under the re-bars is still fresh, fill up the
form to the top, vibrate the concrete to release all the trapped air, let it sit for about
an hour or two then screet off any excess and smooth the top with a steel trowel.

• To make the job perfect, get yourself an edge finishing tool, which will put a small
rounding to the top edges.

• Once the concrete surface is finished and set up a bit, after a few hours, you
should cover it with anything, which will hold water for a while. Burlap, sand leaves
grass clippings, and keep it watered, because it is important to keep the surface of
the concrete from drying out for at least two weeks.

• Once you have the stems finished you are experienced enough to tackle the petals.
If the curvature is in places too sharp to bend the hardboard straps easily, you may
want to try to soak one of them overnight. I do not know if it will stand up to that, but
it is worth a try. Once in place, you may have to let it dry again in order to re-
establish its strength.

• After one day it will be safe to take off the forms and re-use them.
After two days you can step on it, if you stay away from the edges (hard to do with
the narrow stems, I just mention it as a guide line) . After 28 days concrete is
assumed to have attained design strength, though it will still harden further marginally.

• You will not need any reinforcing in the petals.

• If you are concerned about the sharp tips of the petals breaking off you can always
support them with concrete wedges stopping ½ inch below the top.

I have written down all that I can think of in the first run-through, but I am sure, that
I have forgotten a thing or two. So feel free to ask any questions you may have.

Good luck,
Olaf

01-19-2014, 11:03 PM	#13 (permalink)
Olafhenny Olafhenny's Photo Gallery Location: Penticton, BC, Okanagan Valley, Canada Find me on the map! Zone: Hardiness Zone 6 Name: Olaf Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,705 BananaBucks : 269,964 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 2,050 Times Was Thanked 2,012 Times in 876 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 77 Times	Re: Any thoughts? Hi again, Tray, I have now completed my “how to”, proof read it, cleaned it up a bit for easier reading and posted the whole thing again. I have a lot of thoughts. As one, who has done a fair amount of ornamental concrete work, I envy you this idea and pattern. First to your question: No, the tips will not break off. As long as you… • Carve the whole area for the walkway out of undisturbed soil down to 4 inches below finished grade, remove all lose dirt and fill the bottom two inches with fairly clean sand. Soak the sand thoroughly and let it sit for at least two days or until it has settled down firmly • Buy one 4X8 feet sheet of 1/8th inch thick hardboard (particle board or whatever it is called in your region) and cut it on a table saw lengthwise into two inch wide strips. That should give you about 23 strips or just over 180 lf. – Probably not quite enough, but you can re-use some of them. • Get at least 200 ea 18 or 24 inch long stakes. Any contractor for roads and services or any surveyor can tell you where to get those. Those will probably not be enough, but while some will be damaged, while pounding them in, most will probably be re-usable. • Make sure, that the surface of the sand is completely even and smooth, by scarifying it with a straight board in all directions. • Now comes the hard part: You should draw the concept of your pattern with fine lines in the sand. It helps greatly, if you have drawn up the pattern on a sheet of paper and can proportion it on the sand patch accordingly. • Then start with the stems. They should probably be about 5 to 6 inches wide. The strips should be standing on edge and be secured with stakes no further than 12“ c/c apart. The trick here is to get the connections between two strips flawless. That will always take two stakes side by side. It should be flawless on the visible top, but still a good match further down. Once you have the alignment on one side fixed, the other side follows easily • After you have the stems formed and are sure about the proportions for the rest of the pattern, it is time for the concrete work. You should use for that bagged construction grade concrete. The dealer may look funny at you, asking for that, but in some regions they may still sell the much weaker fence post concrete, which is not enough. Because of the curved pattern of the stems you will not need any expansion /contraction joints, but due to the length of the stems I would strongly recommend, that you place two #2 or 3 reinforcing steel all along the stems. For that you place just enough concrete on the sand to cover it and place the rebars on top. It is important to put the rebar low, because that is where the tensile stress will be, in case of any ground settlement. Then, while the concrete under the re-bars is still fresh, fill up the form to the top, vibrate the concrete to release all the trapped air, let it sit for about an hour or two then screet off any excess and smooth the top with a steel trowel. • To make the job perfect, get yourself an edge finishing tool, which will put a small rounding to the top edges. • Once the concrete surface is finished and set up a bit, after a few hours, you should cover it with anything, which will hold water for a while. Burlap, sand leaves grass clippings, and keep it watered, because it is important to keep the surface of the concrete from drying out for at least two weeks. • Once you have the stems finished you are experienced enough to tackle the petals. If the curvature is in places too sharp to bend the hardboard straps easily, you may want to try to soak one of them overnight. I do not know if it will stand up to that, but it is worth a try. Once in place, you may have to let it dry again in order to re- establish its strength. • After one day it will be safe to take off the forms and re-use them. After two days you can step on it, if you stay away from the edges (hard to do with the narrow stems, I just mention it as a guide line) . After 28 days concrete is assumed to have attained design strength, though it will still harden further marginally. • You will not need any reinforcing in the petals. • If you are concerned about the sharp tips of the petals breaking off you can always support them with concrete wedges stopping ½ inch below the top. I have written down all that I can think of in the first run-through, but I am sure, that I have forgotten a thing or two. So feel free to ask any questions you may have. Good luck, Olaf __________________ The reason I joined this forum was to share experiences, my own and those of others and to learn from them.