Quote:
Originally Posted by Olafhenny
PS: While not all sectors of the Slovak economy may have prospered equally from the accession to the EU, there
is no doubt, that the EU was good for the country as a whole.
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Those numbers don't actually show anything.
Social situation hasn't been this bad in at least 2 decades, unemployment rates are (unofficial, our unofficial figures are actually the true one.
) well around 21% - that's an unemployment rate that makes a society unsustainable.
If you believe, that the numbers actually reflect the country... search on youtube for a documentary about Argentina called "Memoria del Saqueo". And how a paper number "Argentinean miracle" led to the worst social genocide in Argentinean history and resulted in mass protests and a few day long street war between protesters and the armed forces. Many people died there. Yet the country figures were miraculous. Up until 2001.
If I say that the situation is worse than dire, I mean it. I don't judge by the numbers or figures, I judge by the quality of life that I could, can and will see among the various classes of people here... social climate, situation in the private and public sphere... etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seweryn
Vote for Union Ante!
I can tell you from the perspective of young EU member and it is my individual point of view
Before our accession there were many apprehensions but finally they didn't come true.
Some “euro-sceptics” threatened with loss of independence or buying Polish ground out by rich West European citizens...
In my opinion membership finally has brought many benefits.
The market is open and you have wide access to any products you wish...
You can traveling without pass and without border check in.
There is many funds that offer you some financial support for many kinds of activities.
Very significant if also the fact some European low regulations were actually better then ours which brought better control over the state institutions.
Especially ecological organization use this possibility to block some “doubtful” investments.
And of course most of your unemployed lower class could move to UK   |
Polish miracle. Whilest the most of the European countries use Euro, Poles decided to use their own currency. This, to an advantage over all the other countries and states. With their cheap labor, inquality and mass production they fled the smaller economies with no regulation (no borders = no clo zoll) and liquidated most of the local markets (Slovakia, Czech republic, Hungary...). They created such a bad climate here that most of their products are considered as second hand and insufficient, as Chinese... whereas the quality of Chinese exports has increased a lot in the recent years.
Wherever the Poles go (but Romanians, Slovaks too, yet, we don't have such high expat numbers as Poles), they eliminate the lower middle and low classes of that society and significantly decrease the labor wages... resulting in a very unpleasant situation (I believe that UK has had and will have the worst case of all).
Ad 1:
How do they always manage to sell and manufacture at the lowest price...?
Well, by not earning very much... but also purposely devalving their own currency in almost periodic windows so that every few months it is impossible not to buy their products, because nobody will wanna work for such a low price, when no import regulations or controls are at place. And thanks to Brussels, Poles don't even need any special licenses, because their licenses are as valid in Poland, as they are in any other part of the EU.
This market manipulation is delibarate and has affected the smallest economies... to which Croatia will belong, the most. (beautifully described by Germany 5 years ago... as systematic and contraproductive.. if only I could find the article)
Ad 2:
Croats have 1 thing that they can offer. Their sea. Sorry to be such a bad pal, Ante, but you have no scientific advancements, no heavy industry, no weapon industry, no biochemical industry,... nothing. You are a typical tourist destination country in Europe. By losing your own currency, monetary politics, decision making... etc.. you will actively lose control of what's happening in your country. The first thing you can expect, if you vote for EU membership, is radical price increase for food. By radical I mean that 5-10% of your society will immediately go from middle class to low class. Law harmonization will take its tolls as well. Our cultures are not like the western... most of the Slavic population cannot live in such a social climate.
The other thing is, that both Serbia and Croatia are so economically ineffective (and you are better off than Serbians only because you have the sea...), that your politicians will in one way or another force this upon you.
Both our countries have already existed as a part of such unhomogenous coalition of countries. Before 1914 as Austro-Hungarian Monarchy and after 1945 as a member of the Eastern block. What we could have learnt from the coalition of different cultures, languages and socieites working under the same dogma is, that it never works. In the EU you cannot even understand most of the languages that other member states speak. Have a look at the empty seats in Brussels during the important law making and how little they actually do or can agree upon...
Sew, there's a joke about Poles that you might know:
"What's the difference between Poland in Soviet Block and Poland in EU?
During the Soviet era, Poles were in Poland and the Polish government was in exile.
And how is it today? The Polish government is finally at home and the rest of the people are in exile."
All over the Europe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olafhenny
Their insular attitude prevented them from joining the Schengen
Agreement, which is the agreement which opened Europe up to borderless travel.
It would be painful in many respects, if the UK left the EU, but it would allow Europe to move closer to political
unity and thereby hopefully remove some of the levels of the present administrative complex. And political
unity and the elimination of conflicts was always and still is the ultimate aim of the protagonists of Europe.
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Britain has never and will never be a part of the Europe in one meaning. It's much closer to the USA, than Europe. I don't mean geographically, but as a society, culture... It's island nature and strategic position has always been their biggest advantage over other continental rivals. It is their insular "ideology" that in some way keeps their interests safer. Unlike us, they have always had and always will have the option to go with Europe, or go its own way. And if you look at the other insular, isolated "British like society" - Australia, it's the perfect example of how country should be run. By almost any measurable parameter it is the model of a properly working country with almost no debt and perfect border regulation.
Protagonists of the united Europe... who is that?
The Spanish King? Portuguese king? British queen? Belgian queen? Swedish crown couple? These 21st century monarchies do really want to see the Europe united. As do the Germans. They wanted to unite the Europe in 1914 and again in 1939. This time they might have found a newer, more effective method... money.. even without cleansing it first.
These are the European protagonists?
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Kostas,
As for the prices of US commodities... it isn't only the Euro, which is getting stronger against the Dollar. Dollar is being devaluated, almost every stable currency is suddenly stronger against the dollar... and there's the paradox. The lower the Dollar:Euro ratio will be, the more will Europeans keep buying from the USA instead of buying from the local, European markets. In this way, lots of money will be exported off the EU and lots of jobs will be lost in the EU. So it's a balance that can upset the stability of many people and their work. In contrast, if the USA exporters to Europe will bring more money to the USA, it will balance their own economy. And the bad ping-pong effect will be in the EU again. This doesn't work in any other WORKING society. But it sure as hell will be happening in the EU.