saltydad: my pond project has been going, very slowly. I was sick from the flu for about a month, in between were out of town trips, I've been well for about 3 weeks now, and have been cleaning up the yards, getting ready to bring the plumerias outside, and planting a bunch of other plants in the yard. The pond right now is just an empty hole. Got the liner and underlayment already. I'll start leveling the sides of the pond this weekend, hopefully I'll have the water in, and plants floating in about 2 weeks.