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PR-Giants 12-08-2012 10:52 AM
What Is Better ? & More Importantly Why ?
 
What is a better source of nutrients for a Banana Plant.

Manure or Grass Clippings, and why ?

I'm not anti-manure, although I am pro-grass, for many reasons aside from nutrients.

I know a banana will quickly grow on a slab of concrete without any soil,

using rocks to stabilize the base and only grass to fertilize the plant.

Grass clipping breakdown fast enough to be a useful source of nutrients for a young plant.

I might be completely wrong, but this is my line of reasoning.

A grazing animal eats the grass and removes some nutrients, but what do they

add to their manure that makes it more beneficial than the grass that they ate ?

JodoGarden 12-08-2012 06:20 PM
Re: What Is Better ? & More Importantly Why ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PR-Giants (Post 211002)
What is a better source of nutrients for a Banana Plant.

Manure or Grass Clippings, and why ?

I'm not anti-manure, although I am pro-grass, for many reasons aside from nutrients.

I know a banana will quickly grow on a slab of concrete without any soil,

using rocks to stabilize the base and only grass to fertilize the plant.

Grass clipping breakdown fast enough to be a useful source of nutrients for a young plant.

I might be completely wrong, but this is my line of reasoning.

A grazing animal eats the grass and removes some nutrients, but what do they

add to their manure that makes it more beneficial than the grass that they ate ?
I'm not saying I wouldn't use grass clippings... but one reason I refrain from doing it is that I would potentially be adding a lot of grass and weed seed to my soil. I know you mentioned an example that didn't include soil, but that's my reasoning. Using composted manure (which I just put on my plants today) adds immediate organic matter and nutrients to the soil... here in FL that's a big deal for a bunch of reasons. Manure is basically just grass already broken down with nutrients that are immediately available to the plants. Adding the grass by itself means you have to wait for microorganisms to break it down. A lot of grass can cause anaerobic activity. Maybe b/c you are tropical that isn't that much of an issue? :2738:

Olafhenny 12-08-2012 07:26 PM
Re: What Is Better ? & More Importantly Why ?
 
I have read some time ago a report, which ascribes fertilizing value of grass clippings equal to
that of steer manure. They are both high on nitrogen and other nutrients. I presume, that they
compared both in composted state.

Needless to say, that I compost all the clippings of my small lawn. On caveat though: Layers
of grass clippings should always be interspersed with layers of sand or sandy soil.

Composting the clippings only or too thick layers of them leads to a gumbo, which does not let air
in or through and in extreme cases causes anaerobic digestion as Jodo suggests, - and stench.

Being friendly to earth worms in your compost helps stirring it up and adds to the quality of the product.

sunfish 12-08-2012 07:32 PM
Re: What Is Better ? & More Importantly Why ?
 
Grass clippings have an NPK of 4 - 0.5 - 2


NPK Values of Animal Manures N Nitrogen % P Phosphorus % K Potassium
(Potash) %
Cow Manure 0.6 0.4 0.5
Horse Manure 0.7 0.3 0.6
Pig Manure 0.8 0.7 0.5
Chicken Manure 1.1 0.8 0.5
Sheep Manure 0.7 0.3 0.9
Rabbit Manure 2.4 1.4 0.6

trebor 12-08-2012 07:39 PM
Re: What Is Better ? & More Importantly Why ?
 
Im thinking Manure is grass or grain broken down or composted in the animals digestive system. Giving the advantage of not having to wait or compost the actual green blades in a pile or container. Benefits should be pretty much the same either one you use.
I've grown potatoes in bail of hay. Using different bails from different location gave me slightly different results. Growing potatoes in soil and adding manure was about the same . My soil here being sand so any nutriments are usually coming from ME.
I think its safe to say you probably get more Nitrogen from manure because of the urea in the stool. Coming from contamination or just naturally mixed in when the animal drops the stool ..
I also agree that grass clippings are good to use . But them weed seeds at times can be a killer... The composting allows the seed to sprout and be consumed, broken down, becoming useful nutrients ..
OK that said I feel manure is a better addition than grass .. I aslo depends on where or what you are growing.. Musa might do well on grass, But I feel Musa would do better on manure. As long as we are talking about adding it to the soil. Either one used alone as a substrate would need to be tested..
I have over 20 years of hydroponic gardening under my belt. I know things will in all kinds of substrate and feeding them all different kinds of fertilizers works well also . I have always noticed urea products enhanced the production.. Being there is a level of urea in manure I again think it better ..
manure = pre composted grass with the added benefit of urea Thats my .02

Olafhenny 12-08-2012 07:40 PM
Re: What Is Better ? & More Importantly Why ?
 
Like always, Tony can be relied on to come up with the facts. :)

JodoGarden 12-08-2012 10:27 PM
Re: What Is Better ? & More Importantly Why ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trebor (Post 211043)
Im thinking Manure is grass or grain broken down or composted in the animals digestive system. Giving the advantage of not having to wait or compost the actual green blades in a pile or container. Benefits should be pretty much the same either one you use.
I've grown potatoes in bail of hay. Using different bails from different location gave me slightly different results. Growing potatoes in soil and adding manure was about the same . My soil here being sand so any nutriments are usually coming from ME.
I think its safe to say you probably get more Nitrogen from manure because of the urea in the stool. Coming from contamination or just naturally mixed in when the animal drops the stool ..
I also agree that grass clippings are good to use . But them weed seeds at times can be a killer... The composting allows the seed to sprout and be consumed, broken down, becoming useful nutrients ..
OK that said I feel manure is a better addition than grass .. I aslo depends on where or what you are growing.. Musa might do well on grass, But I feel Musa would do better on manure. As long as we are talking about adding it to the soil. Either one used alone as a substrate would need to be tested..
I have over 20 years of hydroponic gardening under my belt. I know things will in all kinds of substrate and feeding them all different kinds of fertilizers works well also . I have always noticed urea products enhanced the production.. Being there is a level of urea in manure I again think it better ..
manure = pre composted grass with the added benefit of urea Thats my .02
As a side note... I am very interested in trying hydro due to the many issues with FL gardening. I have seen a lot of different ways of doing it. Any advice? Different thread needed? :ha:

PR-Giants 12-08-2012 10:41 PM
Re: What Is Better ? & More Importantly Why ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JodoGarden (Post 211066)
As a side note... I am very interested in trying hydro due to the many issues with FL gardening. I have seen a lot of different ways of doing it. Any advice? Different thread needed? :ha:
I can see the day when all commercial banana farms are hydroponic, but I expected to see it before today.
Everything I have seen with growing bananas hydroponically is a vast improvement over conventional growing.

JodoGarden 12-08-2012 10:45 PM
Re: What Is Better ? & More Importantly Why ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PR-Giants (Post 211068)
I can see the day when all commercial banana farms are hydroponic, but I expected to see it before today.
Everything I have seen with growing bananas hydroponically is a vast improvement over conventional growing.
Interesting... I want to try hydro for other plants though... mostly veg that suffers from nematode and 4-legged critter damage. Hydro seems like the best and most direct way to overcome some of the issues.

PR-Giants 12-10-2012 07:47 AM
Re: What Is Better ? & More Importantly Why ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trebor (Post 211043)
I have always noticed urea products enhanced the production.. Being there is a level of urea in manure I again think it better ..
manure = pre composted grass with the added benefit of urea
Urea or CO(NH2)2 + H2O + urease = 2NH3 + CO2

Grass + H2O = a H2O solution with NH3 + other things

I would recommend doing it the opposite way of Olaf because by using the

anaerobic approach you will produce a low level H2O solution of NH3 in a few days.

There are hundreds of ways to do this without the odor.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Olafhenny (Post 211040)
I have read some time ago a report, which ascribes fertilizing value of grass clippings equal to
that of steer manure. They are both high on nitrogen and other nutrients. I presume, that they
compared both in composted state.

Needless to say, that I compost all the clippings of my small lawn. On caveat though: Layers
of grass clippings should always be interspersed with layers of sand or sandy soil.

Composting the clippings only or too thick layers of them leads to a gumbo, which does not let air
in or through and in extreme cases causes anaerobic digestion as Jodo suggests, - and stench.

Being friendly to earth worms in your compost helps stirring it up and adds to the quality of the product.

PR-Giants 12-11-2012 04:58 PM
Re: What Is Better ? & More Importantly Why ?
 
These are two examples of a slow aerobic process that can be used to both water and feed several banana plants.

They are simply two containers with the top and bottom open, water and grass clippings are added from the top.

The containers were filled with only grass clippings.

The white colored things are active banana roots living above ground level.

32 Gallon Version

aug 25


oct 24


The container was lifted for the next two photos

dec 11 - Left


dec 11 - Front


5 Gallon Version

oct 23


oct 23


The container was lifted for the next three photos

dec 10 - Left


dec 10 - Front


dec 10 - Right

Olafhenny 04-07-2013 11:16 AM
Re: What Is Better ? & More Importantly Why ?
 
Hi K.J.,

are you telling us, that you stack that beside each of your banana plants and the stuff oozes
into the ground nourishing the plant and the roots grow then into the contraption as well?

PR-Giants 04-07-2013 12:47 PM
Re: What Is Better ? & More Importantly Why ?
 
http://www.bananas.org/f2/simple-eff...ant-17605.html


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