First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619
 

So I'm giving this a shot as well. There are some plants that I've been wanting to propagate and sell for a while so that people get what they are buying and not some misnamed plants, namely Blue Java and a few others.
The plants in this post are all blue java acquired from a reputable source on here. I had donated 1 blue java plant to my daughters school as I had no room to plant more on my property, and I liked the idea of having a "Plant Bank" I could draw from. The 1 plant turned into a mat of about 15 plants. Some fruit was growing but it needed thinning.
So I spent a few hours one day thinning and culling nice corms and pups for my experiments.
Some of the corms probably won't make it as they are probably too small and have actually been killed. The larger ones seem to be doing ok and I had left roots on those and effectively killed the merristem so that shoots would form off the side of the damaged corms. These are in soil and are doing well as you will see.

A new corm was taken today, pared down and cleaned. It is now being "Seasoned", left out in the air to dry the other layer for 2 days. I will then soak it in BAP and then plant in a bin of sawdust. I cut some buds off of this corm and am soaking them in BAP solution and will plant these in soil for more plants.

The monster mat I had to thin:


the fruit:


corms for growing and experiments in Macropropagation:


after thinning. After checking on these after 2 weeks the fruit had doubled in size and one plant put out a new flower:


one of the soil grown corms that had effectively been "killed" to produce shoots form the side, there are 3 shoots after 2 weeks and the circle is the damaged top of the corm. This corm I left some root shoots on it when planting:


another one that was showing merristem growth. Happy to know it was alive and well, I "killed" the merristem to initiate side shoots:


Same thing with above here:


Plants for future experiments, all blue javas:


The temperature controlled bin with 3 small corms that are doing nothing after 3 weeks:


bin with temp sensor in the sawdust to thermostat for controlling temps:


My new corm which is a nice size, pared down and effectively killing the merristem to initiate side shoots. Currently being "Seasoned" by leaving it out for 2 days to dry the outer layer:






The buds pared off the new corm, soaking in a solution of BAP and other nutrients, will be planted later today to grow new plants for further abuse:

Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619
 

Not so long ago in a place not to far away ... circa 2007 in Penasquitos ... I was purchasing TC's by the tray and growing them out in 1 gallon, then 5 gallon, and the few that didn't sell, to 15 gallon. I noticed that if I didn't stay on top of upsizing the pots the individual would get cramped and the rhizomes would start forming corms, sending up pups.

Also I noticed that if I took a 2' pup from a full size plant and place it in a tall 15 gallon, its going to start pupping in a year. So I would transplant 2' pups from mother plants at the end of summer into 15gal pots. Then in the spring when they started putting on some growth, cut the pseudostem about 5 inches above the soil line. By summer, lots of pups would be present.

Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619
 

Thanks Richard. Going to do many experiments. This may be one of them the crowding technique.

Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619
 

Looks like a nice rack of Namwa.

Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619
 

Those aren't Namwah, they are Blue Javas.
The base plant was received from a reputable member here who have the real Blue Javas, which is what these are.
Not Namwah.

Take another look:

Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619
 

Hey Sddarkman,

Which woods can be used for the sawdust in propagation? Both you and Louis used sawdust and I saw that you asked Louis about soft vs. hard woods but I didn't see a definitive answer.

If I cleared a plot I would have oak (hard) and pine (soft) as the material to use as sawdust or mulch. Are these woods safe/suitable? I thought I would just run a few logs through a chipper/duster.

Thanks for any info!

Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619
 

I honestly don't know the answer to that question. I'm going to use a white/soft wood this go around as the others were in a dark/hardwood last time.

Once I get some more corms going I'll be trying each every other time and see how they go.

All the videos I've watched and all the papers I've read, don't specify any type. They just say...sawdust. Or rice hulls.

Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619
 

I have rice hulls 4 sale

Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619
 

If you have it available in your area get rice hulls! For macro! For potting mix! For in ground backfill! For anything banana.

Perlite and ricehulls are the 2 best best things for Musa! You can’t go wrong!

Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619
 

So I got the rice hulls and popped the Corms in there, but what happened is that they are so light and air, they don't hold heat like the sawdust. Even with a heating mat they got too cold, so I'm going to mix some sawdust back into the hulls to hold more water and heat. Also noticed they don't hold moisture like the sawdust does. But this will be good for my soil mix.

Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619
 

Ty, are you using parboiled rice hulls or from the feed store(bedding)?

Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619
 

I just may try this over the winter. Instead if sawdust I will try sand.

Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619
 

I’m using parboiled and just normal dry rice hulls. Not bedding. I have rice mills 2 hours away. They charge $10 for a truckload. Used to be free.

I will try to upload a few of my macro pics to my Flickr. I’m making a folder in Flickr named “macro”. I use normal pine sawdust. The more powdery the better.

Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619
 

Update on the Macro experiment. It's going well. However the corm in the soil is producing bigger faster growing plants.
Plant in the pots:
These two were harvested for member last night:






This is my sawdust bin. The pups are coming but they are slower to grow I imagine from lack of nutrients, so I mixed in some long term release fertilizer into the sawdust. These pups in the sawdust are about as old as the ones from the soil I just harvested.

Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619
 

Looking good!!! Thank you for the updates and great photos!

Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619
 

Here is the bud that forms at the "V" of the leaf sheaths.
One would damage the Apical Merristem to get this to pup out and form more pups. off of this one point.

Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619
 

Thanks to a member on this board, I now have a Raja Puri to torture! MAUAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahaha.....

HArvest of First Pups - First Macropropagation - Sddarkman619
 

Below are some shots of the pups I harvested today. The corm looked and smelled great.
This was in some dark hardwood saw dust and I'm going to be switching to coco coir eventually per discussion with Gabe.

Other corms I had in some Shavings of pine and they started to "mulch" and not grow. Pulled those out and switched tot he coco coir. Hence the reason for going to coco coir.

Planted these guys today and should be ready for sale in a few weeks after rooting in the new pots.

Corm was placed back in the bin with same saw dust. So goes the experiments. So far so good!
Thanks to all who have helped, Luis, Ty, Gabe, Richard and Mark.

Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619
 

Great job and documentation SDDarkman! Very nice photos! Thanks for letting us know to stay away from pine sawdust. That stuff is very prevalent in my area.

Looks like those Blue Java pups are thoroughly documented with their own thread!

Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619
 

Yes they are. :)
Came from Crazy Banana and they grow like weeds. I actually finally got to eat some. My wife loves them, ate the whole bunch.

Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619
 

Excellent writeup and pictures Sddarkman619.

What is your conclusion now after all your testing? Did you have better results using Coco noir than the sawdust?

I want to try this method as well. This last week I became incredibly fascinated with this method. After refining this method, I heard that you can get ~64 plants from one corm.

Thanks!

mcfly

Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619
 

Sddarkman619,

When you pared down the corm, did you cut an 'x' on each bud that you saw? I heard that helps to get more sprouts from that location.

mcfly

Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619
 

I did have a nice outcome with the coco coir, much better than saw dust or rice hulls. For me at least.
Yes you have to basically kill/damage the bud down to it's merristem in order to get it to put pups out rather than 1 pseudostem.
I have now started using a drill bit instead. seeing how that works.

Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619
 

Most propagation manuals will say to kill or damage the Growing Point in order to remove apical dominance. That's mainly because plants are plentiful and inexpensive and the technique is quick and easy, but obviously the Growing Point can be removed without killing it and that will also remove apical dominance from the remaining rhizome.

Here's a variegated banana that is being used for macropropagation. After the Growing Point was removed it was replanted to start process over again. This probably can go on for eternity using the same growing point.

Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619
 

Hi PR-Giants,

Thanks for your reply as well. I read that on top of removing/killing the main growth point, for maximum output, to identify growth points on the sides of the pared corn and slicing an ‘x’ on each one to obtain multiple growths out of each individual growth point. Not too deep as you don’t want to kill that growth point. However, I have not seen any close up pics to identify those growth points. It was referred to it as the PIF technique.

Then as the pups start shooting off, the bigger ones you are supposedly able to cut off (killing) and then you x in that growth point to get more pups from there. Like you mentioned, this process could go on for eternity.

Do you have a picture of your prepared corn, all pared down and ready to go? I am going to try with and expendable Basjoo I have in order to test the methods discussed.

Mcfly

Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619
 

Watch this video:

Macropropagation from ProMusa Video Bank on Vimeo.

Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619
 

excellent video. makes you want to try it. :08:

Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619
 

There are many different techniques and understanding the basics will help in choosing what works best in each situation.

One plant can produce thousands of new plantlets but for us maximum output is less desirable than speed.

The variegated rhizome in the top photo will basically activate each those buds in a specific order and allow us to remove a large pup about every 6 days. This is the advantage of having it focus it's resources on just a few buds at a time.

The bottom photo is what happens by mutilating one of those buds.

My first post was to point out that the main plant can be removed and replanted instead of killing it.

I prefer to use clean coarse sand as the medium because it'll last forever, it drains well, has great aeration, and it's easy to keep the humidity perfect.

There are many options with macropropagation and understanding how apical dominance changes is interesting and useful.

Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619
 

Yes, this is one of the videos I saw. Great video. Great solution for that part of the world too. It really solved a problem.

Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619
 

Great info PR-Giants. Thanks for the pics too. I just need to get this started. Perhaps sometime during this three day weekend I'll have some time.

I don't have much in the way of a controlled environment ie no greenhouse but I have some areas that get less sun. A rubbermaid bin (or other) with some holes in the bottom, bedding cloth, then I'll try once with Coco coir and one with course sand. Place a plastic sheet on top and give it a run.

Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619
 

I think I will try this as well....... I will make a new thread of I do it:08::08: