Re: SOS: HOA wants my banana TREES removed
 

OK, this is better; but I'm still not sure how banana plants would fit in.

Title XXVIII; 373.185; section 3(b): states: A deed restriction or covenant may not prohibit or be enforced so as to prohibit any property owner from implementing Florida-friendly landscaping on his or her land or create any requirement or limitation in conflict with any provision of part II of this chapter ...

Also, I did see under section 1(b): Florida-friendly landscaping includes 'attraction of wildlife'. So for the HOA to ban bird feeders is a violation of this statute.

Anyway, I would tell the HOA their order to remove the banana plants which were planted as part of the approved 'Florida Friendly landscaping' plan is a violation of this Florida Statute.

Re: SOS: HOA wants my banana TREES removed
 

Too Funny !!!

Re: SOS: HOA wants my banana TREES removed
 

You could be right. I would have to have a conversation with someone to know that.

Here's a pic from my gallery, taken Feb. 11th. It's shows fruit, but you can see some banana leaves are shredded. That seems to be a given with bananas.

Re: SOS: HOA wants my banana TREES removed
 

I spoke with a couple agents at UF/Pinellas County Extension about documenting the nature of bananas not being trees. He replied, well yes they're not WOODY trees. Obviously, did not have a clue. He then passed me to a second agent who confirmed they are not trees, but could not specify what.

He asked what HOA rules and regs were concerning plantings in general and their Florida Friendly rules. I informed him there is nothing in the rules about vegetation, only architectural elements.

He mentioned it would be better to wait past any frost dates for transplanting. Pretty mote here, but a good talking point, the Extension agent said..., if somebody wants to know when I'm going to remove the offending bananas.

Right now I am thinking about just cutting all three P-stems back to say waist height after I harvest the bananas on the main P-stem. That would be a first step towards relocating them if I have to. Then maybe contact a board member to have a conversation about the real issue and see if there is a compromise possible.
They really add to my landscape, provide shade on my veranda windows and make a lovely rustling in the breeze, oh so tropical. :waving:

Re: SOS: HOA wants my banana TREES removed
 

Yes, the extension agent I spoke with (see my previous post) also offhandedly suggested I get my landscaping certified Florida Friendly. He gave me the link and I downloaded the checklist. It appears my garden would qualify, maybe even for Gold status (15 unique native plants). Who knows maybe it would be helpful. Fun anyway.

Re: SOS: HOA wants my banana TREES removed
 

The neighbor is not identified.

Re: SOS: HOA wants my banana TREES removed
 

Good information I will add to my research,
So far I have found the Rules and regs say nothing about vegetation or Florida friendly. Having been drawn up by the builder in the 70's and never revised they are long overdue. Not on the HOA list though.

Re: SOS: HOA wants my banana TREES removed
 

That's the problem with people nowadays; they hide behind anonymity because they're too scared to say something to your face.

You do, however, have the right to face your accuser in court, so those same rules they hide behind can get you out of complaint-related citations, aerial and two-cop speeding tickets, etc. You simply ask to cross examine the original witness or complainant. When it is responded that are not present, you respectfully request the judge to dismiss the case. In the case of traffic tickets involving planes, helicopters and one cop sitting on the bridge while the other tickets you, as soon as your case is dismissed, the judge will also dismiss everyone else in the court with the same officer involved.

Kudos to Geosulcata and Edwmax for finding those statutes. That's pretty much all an attorney does, which is why they have all those volumes on the shelves behind their desk.

You can also speak with the FL AG's Office for a more detailed explanation on "FL friendly landscaping" and inquire if it includes plants or not. You can't ask legal advice, but you can ask for clear definitions and they are glad to help. It's their job.

Re: SOS: HOA wants my banana TREES removed
 

I'll bet they do! They're pretty heavy too.

And for the record, I never threw a brick through anyone's window. It was a chunk of asphalt, and it missed the window. All it did was knock a huge chunk out of one of their cedar clapboards. They stopped all their noise though.

Re: SOS: HOA wants my banana TREES removed
 

The LAST things I would do would be cutting or digging my plants. They would need to force me to do that. It sounds like you have a good case for keeping them with the Florida friendly landscape rules and all. Go to the next board meeting and present a good case.

Re: SOS: HOA wants my banana TREES removed
 

Ed, You are hitting on some things which need to be considered. I have dealt with HOAs and Restrictive Covenants. Usually, you have the ability to appeal and attend an HOA to voice your concerns. But, HOAs are a power unto themselves, and unless you have a strong case, or file suit, you will get nowhere. Usually, someone was told they could not do something and have an axe to grind with everyone else.

Telling you that you cannot plant a Florida friendly landscaping and then not defining "Florida Friendly" or referencing it in the restrictive covenants would allow some interpretation from the most reliable sources such as city or county ordinances, state statutes, Ag Extension, etc.

If they have referenced or allowed other similar plants, then you might use those as making a case that the plant is in the same family or similar adn allowed-- bird of paradise, travelers palm, etc. Force their hand to interpret fairly, allow your day in court so to speak, and challenge the order. But, be prepared to have to remove them quickly (like start the day after).

Covenants vary from place to place but should have some way for you to appeal the decision and consider additional information and expert testimony such as letter by the ag agent or city landscape architect or planner.

I had a property owner rail to the HOA that I illegally put up a play house with swing and slide for my son only to find out that he put up a chain link fence on his property for his dogs without approval. Unfortunately, he was on the HOA so got his approval. I used my own expert testimony to make their lives miserable and this giving into letting me keep the playhouse as it was not clearly defined. My profession made me the expert.

I hope my two-cents helps. Good luck!
:2722:

Re: SOS: HOA wants my banana TREES removed
 

Usually, there is a length of time that the rules need to be reviewed and updated. Some, it is 20 years, others, 25, 30, and 50 years. Check state statutes and the restrictive covenants itself. Should be a date there. Maybe you could delay the removal of the bananas.

Re: SOS: HOA wants my banana TREES removed
 

Here is the State Site for Statutes governing HOAs but does not include the miscellaneous things such as Florida Friendly Plants as discussed previously.

Chapter 720 - 2013 Florida Statutes - The Florida Senate

Here is a good resource for "Florida Friendly Plants" put out by the IFAS which might help you. Musa Spp is listed as a FFP.

http://fyn.ifas.ufl.edu/pdf/FYN_Plan...Guide_2015.pdf

Re: SOS: HOA wants my banana TREES removed
 

Lydie, I'd love to have the link for certification; I read the one posted by Ripsaw (MRES) and know that I adhere to the 9 goals. Not sure if I have the right plants. Do I need a "gold star"? Nope. But since moving to FL I've become very much more dedicated to doing my best to make my little spot in this world much more friendly to Mother Nature.

Re: SOS: HOA wants my banana TREES removed
 

I might have a case, but in face of resistance the board could just rescind their approval altogether and order removal of all plantings...

Re: SOS: HOA wants my banana TREES removed
 

Thanks, I didn't know about that. I will look into it.

Re: SOS: HOA wants my banana TREES removed
 

Yes me too. My FF landscaping is also a first experiment in permaculture related practices. Even my mulch is FF Florimulch.

Here's the link to the Florida Friendly Landscaping Certification.
Florida Friendly Checklist

Re: SOS: HOA wants my banana TREES removed
 

Phooey, I doubt I'd pass their test. I'm not an organic gardener nor am I at all organized; what grows at my place does despite my "ignorance" of them. I'm admittedly lazy and cheap so I try to let things happen on their own. I do get free compost (can't make enough from my stuff to do much) and wood chips from the County; I'm positive it's not "organic" but it is made of organic inputs. And I use a little Neem and generic RU when I get around to it; I prefer to compost weeds. Planned to mulch my entire 1/3 acre but now that my lawnmower is working will keep some green in front to make my neighbor happier.

I have trapped 2 Cuban frogs and disposed of them as FL requests. Ick. (Why no points for taking them and air potatoes out?) I encourage black snakes in my yard even though I despise snakes; they invariably hide under a tarp or something else so when I disturb their nesting places I shriek and they scurry away quickly. (They return and I resolve to not startle again.) Butterflies love the red flowered bushes that were here when I arrived. I learned when selling RE in the 70s up north that you need to observe plantings for at least a year to see what is there so I did that here and still am 2+ years later because, as I said, I'm lazy. But because I am, I now get to watch hummingbirds and bees duking it out: cheap thrills.

But, hey, even if I don't meet "their" standards I know I'm doing something right. My jungle is filled with nature. BTW, before moving here, lizards were sure to give me a heart attack; I'm still alive so it seems I've adapted.

Re: SOS: HOA wants my banana TREES removed
 

I don't see where the Florida Friendly requires organic.

It's guidelines refer to water management issues and pollution minimization in the landscape. As far as plants themselves, the checklist includes having some Florida natives and no invasive species.

Re: SOS: HOA wants my banana TREES removed
 

I'm sorry if I implied they required organic; they don't. Indeed, they don't really restrict the types of herbicides/fertilizers/insecticides but do expect timing and amounts to be what I consider common sense; it's amazing to me how many pricey chemicals people waste on their landscapes with the runoff ending up in waterways. If I could get green tree frogs to populate my yard, I'd be a happy camper. If I ever find a praying mantis in my space, I'll be doing cartwheels. No chance of that if I over treat my domain.

I'm still in the planning stages at this point and it doesn't help that I am still totally clueless about what plants grow/thrive here. I have discovered that bananas are quite happy in FL. :ha:

ETA: Their list includes plants I might like to grow--coconut is one. Surinam cherry is also on the list. I don't believe either of those are invasive but then again I don't have either of those. I don't mind following their goals but their plant list sounds like some HOA made it up. ;)

Re: SOS: HOA wants my banana TREES removed
 

Good news update. I met with a HOA board member at my home a few days ago, to have a conversation. I asked him if he could please explain a bit more the thinking behind the letter demanding I remove my bananas. since they'd been there over a year already. He told me he didn't know who had made the complaint, had received a copy of the letter but had not looked into it and just assumed it was my closest neighbor.
Thankfully, I had spoken with the neighbor the previous evening and that neighbor told me how nice the tropical garden looks with the bananas.

The Board guy seemd glad to hear the neighbor was okay with the banana plants and noted that these complaints invariably arise during "Snowbird season" (January thru April) and since it was not the neighbor then this was most likely a winter tourist.

The basis of the removal letter was that I had planted bananas "trees" whereas no trees were specified in my landscape project. I told him that bananas are not trees but "herbaceous stalks" that are cut down after bearing fruit. He asked how long they grow and I said about 15 months including fruiting. I then handed him a printout on banana morphology I found at promusa.org.

He then asked to visit the garden, saying he had not checked out my landscaping since approval in 2015. He checked that the bananas did not block anyone’s view (we're on the intracoastal waterway so view is king) and were not taller than other trees around. I had him touch/squeeze the fruiting banana plant pseudo stem so he could feel it was not a tree trunk (I'm talking laymen here, hands on).

He was surprised at the stalk being full of water. He proceeded to take pictures and looked around, noting that my closest neighbor has a permanent tree at least as tall as my bananas, not on any project...

He concluded I don't have to remove the bananas because they are not permanent and are not trees anyway. He said he would talk to the rest of the board, and told me I didn't need to remove anything, that the matter was closed.
He requested I keep them reproducing stems towards the middle of my landscape bed so as to avoid any encroachement. Easy peasy!

It was so relieved and happy to hear that. The whole thing had really put me in a funk. Not only is it fascinating to watch bananas grow and bear fruit, they lend lovely tropical shade to my veranda windows and make a wonderful rustling sound in the breeze.

:birthdaynana:
:bananas_b
:woohoonaner:
:0517:
:0519:

Re: SOS: HOA wants my banana TREES removed
 

That's fantastic news!!!! Thanks for the update!
:woohoonaner:

SOS: HOA wants my banana TREES removed
 

This is why you do not live in a HOA neighborhood!

Re: SOS: HOA wants my banana TREES removed
 

:nanadrink: .... :goteam: ....
... :2750: ...

Great!

Re: SOS: HOA wants my banana TREES removed
 

I can say that I would never live in a place where they had a HOA. I live in Staten Island, NY. We are part of New York City, but we're nothing like the rest of the city. We have fields and woods, but no sky scrapers. We do have one thing, though, that is worse than HOA's. We have the city Buildings Department. Some time ago, I decided I wanted a greenhouse. My brother, at the time, lived across the street from a senior inspector in the department, so I asked him what I had to do to put up a greenhouse. His reply was that they usually didn't do anything unless they had a complaint. So, I put the house up and, sure enough, some time later, we had a complaint. An inspector came around, and told me I had to take it down. (He could hardly speak English.) When I did what I was told, they still fined me $900.00.

Re: SOS: HOA wants my banana TREES removed
 

It's not a tree. Run with that!

Re: SOS: HOA wants my banana TREES removed
 

Sometimes you need to put up with an HOA if you want to live less than half a mile from the beach.:2730::islandsharkbanana::kiteflyingnanergif:

Re: SOS: HOA wants my banana TREES removed
 

Wow. That's rough.

Re: SOS: HOA wants my banana TREES removed
 

Sometimes that is all it takes-- open discussion and common sense! We all learned a little here, especially to avoid HOAs!! LOL!

:woohoonaner: :goteam:

Re: SOS: HOA wants my banana TREES removed
 

Yeah, avoid HOAs absolutely, but know City building departments can be just as difficult.