Bananas in ground all year round?
 

I am going out with my dad tomorrow (hopefully ) to get the materials to build a pvc greenhouse. If I insulated it properly and heated w/timer could I plant a dwarf verity (scd) and have it grow all winter in there in the ground? I have been planning to build a greenhouse for a couple years now. What are your thoughts? I am getting a part -time job sometime before Oct to pay for heating. I really want a heated greenhouse. the plants in the house are taking over !!! :D

Re: Bananas in ground all year round?
 

If the greenhouse air temperature is above 10C (50F) but the ground temperature remains below 2C (35F) your bananas will die.

Re: Bananas in ground all year round?
 

ahhhh had a feeling it wouldn't work , okay thanks Richard.

Re: Bananas in ground all year round?
 

Re: Bananas in ground all year round?
 

Re: Bananas in ground all year round?
 

LOL I know But he has a good point about the ground temp I will try it and see what happens.I will keep the temp at 65 during the winter. in the summer of course no heater:P I was thinking 6 by 8 ft but now I may do 8 by 10 we'll see. Thanks Sherry ! gonna go now I will let you know what I got when I get home.

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Re: Bananas in ground all year round?
 

okay we got the frame done, it's gonna be 6 ft wide 10 ft long. My parents didnt want it close to the house because it blocks the view and it is quite large. it is in a sunny spot at the side of the yard next to a line of trees. I will post a pic of the progress. :) I will look into the heating keeping the nannas warm.

Re: Bananas in ground all year round?
 

Keep us updated!:woohoonaner:

Re: Bananas in ground all year round?
 

Hey Matt, you should look into some heating cables used to keep pipes from freezing in the winter. They're reasonably inexpensive to operate and would keep the ground surrounding your plants from freezing. They might not actively grow during the winter but good enough to keep them alive. Some use them for hardy palms in colder winter areas with great success. I wish I did this past winter!:ha:

Re: Bananas in ground all year round?
 

Hey, ya missed a golden opportunity; ya should've suggested adding a "passive solar heating enclosure" to the side of your house!!!
Perfectly see through, of course, using a thin mylar membrane that would not need replacing every year from UV degradation like plain old plastic sheeting.
It would add an excellent buffer zone, protecting that part of the house from "direct contact" with outside weather.
That's assuming a south facing wall, of course.
It'd otherwise be of lesser effect but still an excellent windbreak!!!
(not to mention you could open the windows to let the extra heat in during sunny days.)

It might not be too late if ya haven't chopped up the plastic too badly yet...

Using PVC pipe would've given a stiffer frame, even if it's more work to get to bend as nicely as possible. A heat gun or careful application of a flame does the trick though. Worst case scenario would have been adding some elbows, not overly expensive.
Please consider going with a double-skin on the critter; the slight extra effort and expense will be more than offset by not just lower heating costs but by final success.
If you need more height, a row of straw bales around the bottom will not only add height but also an insulated "buffer zone" from cold extending through the soil.

I know the "up against the house" part may be a bit of a hard sell for you at this point but have a look-see at a very easy, inexpensive, and effective little "passive solar heating enclosure" that your folks will wind up loving when the heating bills roll in:
Banana Gallery - lean-to
It can be made with straight pieces & elbows but the arch gives tremendous stability in wind gusts up to 40 - 50 mph.
We used plain old heavy polyethylene plastic sheeting but polyester (Mylar) is crystal clear because of the view being an issue.
Here is a place selling Mylar film so you get an idea of what you would be dealing with:
Clear Polyester Mylar® | U.S. Plastic Corp.

Re: Bananas in ground all year round?
 

thanks Bob, I have heard of people using them too, I am curently having issues with it standnig straight up since there is no door frame yet. here is a pic of what the base looks like


update-- need support at the back and door frame will go and hold up the front.

Re: Bananas in ground all year round?
 

Matt take a lesson I learned the hard way with my failed ensete tent and put plenty of "purlins" PVC cross braces along the length of both sides of it..high and low and bolt or at least use ties to attach it to the main frame. The wind will play havoc on it and knock it over....... guess how I know?:ha:

Re: Bananas in ground all year round?
 

Matt it might be better if you use more ridged pipe.Schedule 40 pvc water pipe or elec. conduit.It will hold the shape much better.

Re: Bananas in ground all year round?
 

yeah when I was at HD I saw the thicker white pcv. they were not long enough. they were 12 ft .I need approx 15 ft. Gonna put some supports in the back tomorrow and make the door frame and put a support along the top roof connecting the front and back and a thin slate on each side..again connecting to the front and back. I'll try that and see how it works.

If I could just buy one I would have it's never fun when something goes wrong. We were gonna buy a greenhouse from harbor fright tools in Cal,Great structure was only $250 or something for a 6x8 . But of course they don't ship to Canada. Also e-bay doesnt ship greenhouses to canada. It's a nightmare living here !

Re: Bananas in ground all year round?
 

Clear solar pool cover

Re: Bananas in ground all year round?
 

the actual greenhouse cover is a pool cover? or are you refering to the thing on the top , darker cover.?

Re: Bananas in ground all year round?
 

The actual clear covering is pool solar cover.It's uv protected should last awhile.I've had this up for two years.Cost around $50.

Re: Bananas in ground all year round?
 

Re: Bananas in ground all year round?
 

that is nice. I might look into a solar cover sometime during the summer. something reasonably priced. I have heard and read they help a lot. even in the winter.

Re: Bananas in ground all year round?
 

I've thought about doing the same thing here in Columbus, Ohio for next winter. Some of my ideas to combat the colder ground temperatures was the heating cables. I was thinking around the perimeter of the structure and then up and down the interior area of the greenhouse. Also, I wanted to build a raised bed, that would hopefully make it a little easier to raise the soil temperature. Good luck if you decide to! :08:

Re: Bananas in ground all year round?
 

Matt, it looks like your project is off to a great start, and I commend you for wanting to take on such a courageous endeavor for your region. I would suggest a couple of things that will help ensure your success. One of the easiest methods of keeping the soil warmed up inside your greenhouse is to provide a barrier/insulator from the frozen soil surrounding it, simply by digging a trench down a few feet deep around the perimeter of your box frame; it looks like the frost level in your area is at least 1.5 meters (?) so the closer you get to that depth the better, but even 2 feet is a great help. Then place cut-to-size pieces of sheets of closed-cell foam insulation on edge, like Styrofoam (the cheapest solution) or a sheet product used for insulating roofs (more expensive, but more effective). A minimum thickness should be 1", using thicker material will provide better protection, but 1" will do a lot! Work within your budget, of course, but this will last for many years. This will help the all-important root and corm zone to be much more comfortable.

The next thing I would do is to try to put something called passive solar mass storage above the ground. This could be as simple as several pails of water which warm up during the day and give off their warmth during the nightime hours. Of course, the larger the storage the more the storage, as you can see here:

So any kind of tubes or containers of water, cement blocks, bricks, etc. will produce the results you're looking for. And, if you'll keep them raised off the ground with merely a 2x4 or something, it gives them a better opportunity for absorbing the daytime solar energy without competition from the cool soil.

Best of luck, keep us all posted on your progress as the months go by!

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I put a black barrel in mine and it really helps. At night you can feel the heat radiating off it.

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If i do get black barrel could I set small palnts on it to use more space up ? will this change heat effect?

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That's what I did. I bought it off Craig's list. I had to spray paint it.

Your right, the only problem is they take a lot of space. Use milk jugs too. Anything will help with passive solar heating.

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that is a great idea you should go for it! just yesterday I had the idea of actually getting around to it. now there are so many ideas coming, solar blankets, barrals for heat, raised beds like you sadi I am going to dig down a bit bout 7 in and level it and make a large raised bed. But for now I have to finish constructing it . it's really exciting how much more you can do ith a greenhouse.

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Hi Kazercat,

Unless you are rearing dwarf nanas, Be prepared for 3-5 metre (9-15 foot)tall shoots, and fruiting with it!

I also warn you of aphids, and in abundance after or by Xmas!

I would just let them grow and succumb to nature whilst in the ground, musa basjoo is the hardiest that I am aware of....

Re: Bananas in ground all year round?
 

yeah dwarf like real dwarfs, truly tiny, sdc. I do have a musa basjoo in ground other side of the yard.gonna see how that did in a few weeks.

Re: Bananas in ground all year round?
 

Hi Matt
Sorry for butting into your little hot-house project,however i guess by now you should be getting used to it.I live in Australia and i am impressed just how much trouble you all go to to get a hand of BANANAS.
I love eating bananas, and as a result i have about nine Lady-finger trees growing at present,yesterday i noticed two of them have flowers on them,thank God.
Keep up with the hothouse i know you will win in the end,we alway's do.
Currently i am building my own hot-house to house some Dragon fruit cuttings, i am importing from The Phillipines,all being well.
It is Autumn over here so Winter is just around the corner.
All the best Matt.
Cheers Cecil

Re: Bananas in ground all year round?
 

My home built pvc hot house (it is 10x12):






m. basjoo







I can tell you that My bananas have out grown the greenhouse in 1 season, so If I were you I would not plant bananas (except for dwarfs in the greenhouse). During the winter my greenhouse is only 5-10 deg. warmer than the outside. During the summer the greenhouse gets well over 100f. My greenhouse is in full sun, summer and winter. This summer I will try and plant some sunflowers or bananas in front of the greenhouse to give it some shade so I can use the greenhouse during the summer. Also a thing to warn you, weeds will grow like crazy in the greenhouse!




If I were to make a new greenhouse again, I would build it in shade-part shade, be closer to the house, have power ran out to it for lights, heater, fans.



Hope your greenhouse turns out good, and you see how I build my greenhouse.



M.basjoo (shortest), Ice cream 'blue java' (tallest) after 1 season's growth. Look at the greenhouse in the back...

Re: Bananas in ground all year round?
 

Here it is today

Re: Bananas in ground all year round?
 

What direction are those trees on? They could help make a wind break. To bad they're not evergreens.

Re: Bananas in ground all year round?
 

east and there is a big shed if you keep going down the line of trees to the right that blocks some of the N winds. I wish they were evergreens we got these Mexican/Brazilian neighbors who are so weird. They hide 85% of the year. never come outside. the're yard looks like crap everyone on the street tyhinks they are weird. Iwish i didn't have to see their yard everyday. but in the spring/summer its nice when those leaves fill in.

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That shed will help block some wind then. I got some hedges I planted as a wind break prior to doing mine. Yours is looking great.

It's defiantly exciting to see your plan come to fruition. You have plenty of time now to start thinking about winter.

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Thanks Dean, I saw a pic of yours in your Gallery. if I lived in the states thats what I would have something that nice and large. But for the next 2 or 3 years till I can get a good job finish school this is alright it'll do what I need it to do :)

Re: Bananas in ground all year round?
 

Hi Matt - Good luck on the greenhouse project and nana plans.
Since you apparently have been pondering and planning a greenhouse for quite awhile do you have any advice, good links to look at, maybe a design or two you can share.
I live in zone 8 but not having much luck with citrus and I want to grow avacado - After losing almost all of my citrus trees last winter, I'm thinking seriously about putting up a greenhouse. whatever you can share is appreciated.
Jose

Re: Bananas in ground all year round?
 

well his site is where i got the idea from shows and discribes how to build the one i am making step by step. i used a different pvc. and much smaller. I wish I couls have made a huge one like in the picture. good luck you should make a plan and build one.


links w/pics
How to Build an Inexpensive Hoop-Style Greenhouse | Alberta Home Gardening


How to build a small, cheap, simple and easy greenhouse


the bottom one is my orginal first page when I thought about building this a year or so ago. did not use this one but similar structure. best of luck ! they are really fun to build and simple. The size is always up to yyou. mine is just 6 ft tall thats the minimum you would want is 6 ft.

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Heck, they're probably AFRAID to come outside for fear of frostbite!!! :08:

My friend up in the Maritimes has me ship stuff to him all the time.
It goes to a store on the US side of the border & every so often someone makes the run down there to pick up stuff. You might want to look into that sometime.
Personally I think you're going about it in a better way; it'll be good practice for when you can talk your folks into that attached one! :bananas_b

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update


April

raised bed

Re: Bananas in ground all year round?
 

Just a quick one,

I knew you would do it,sure hope you enjoy your achievement,only better things can grow out of it.

Keep your mind active,and remember,we are all on your side.

Kind regards

Cheers Cecil.

Re: Bananas in ground all year round?
 

Great job on the greenhouse and thanks for sharing the plans. I now have a project for this summer.
Looks like your plants made it through the winter in good shape.
Jose

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Those plants have just been in there for a week,temp is 50-52 at night.the real test will come dec-jan :)

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So far I lost my siam ruby and Viente Cohol

My Musa Carolina King looks like it did not make it.
No sign of saba
Red Kru is gone
Musa Dwarf Red so far no growth.
Thought valery was gone but growing back
Milky way looking good
Musa 'Rajapuri' doing great
Gold finger is coming back thought I lost it.
Ensete Maurellii all are looking good
Dwarf Cavendish looking good my first banana plants!
Musa Ice Cream great
Thai Black great
Musa Basjoo great
Misi Luki of Samoa great
Musella Lasiocarpa great
unknowns great
Ornico good
Musa Bordelon real good
2 Musa Dwarf Brazilian real good
Musa Thomsonii good
Musa Balbisiana great
Musa Dwarf Namwah fantastic
Musa California Gold fantastic
2 Musa Dwarf Orinoco fantastic
Musa Texas Star great
Musa Velutina great
they were all outside and it does get cold here in the winter they were all unprotected. My first winter I did this .

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ohh noo :( good to hear most of them made it through the winter.
I lost my Viente Cohol too, really sucks, rotted I think .

thanks for letting us know how they did Greg.

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Thanks for sharing all of your great photos... it looks like everything is going well and lots of enjoyment is coming from your efforts! With any luck you'll now be able to really explore how much more of an addiction you can blow this out to!

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Hi Kaczercat,

How is the winter going? Are your plants surviving?

Hope so :)

Re: Bananas in ground all year round?
 

Hi :) , they are doing good but I decided not to put them in the ground, I just put them in pots and they have just started to grown again within the past 2 weeks. Winter is soon to be over no more snow and the sun will be back within a few weeks!! ;) hope yours did good too