M. Basjoo seeds

Lodewijkp · 02-18-2008, 09:41 AM

hi

why are basjoo seeds so rare and hard to find on the internet ?

are they selling it by a different name ?

are basjoo seeds easy to germinate ?

tony palmer · 02-18-2008, 10:32 AM

Hi lodewijkp,

The problem with basjoo is you need two different clones to cross pollinate they are not self fertile.
Out side Sichuan and a couple of neighbouring provinces were they live in the wild,
most basjoo are from the same clones, because they are propagated by pups or tcd.
But they do produce seeds because I was talking to some one last year and he works for Kew gardens in London and he said thay had received seeds of Musa basjoo that year from Sichuan.

Tony

bigdog · 02-18-2008, 10:04 PM

Tony, I don't know where that rumor got started, but it is false. I have pollinated Musa basjoo flowers with pollen from a different flower in the same mat and got seeds just last year. I only got one banana, and there were only 3 seeds in it, but it did work!

And I would imagine that seeds are hard to find because it is such an easy banana to find in cultivation. Kind of like how not many people propagate Colocasia esculenta by seed, it is just so easy to get a clone by other means. It would be nice to see a bit more genetic diversity with musa basjoo however!

tony palmer · 02-19-2008, 03:42 AM

Nice one frank, were the seed fertile,! I have tried Musa Basjoo seeds that Chiltern seeds had on offer In 1996 they said the seed came from the Ryukyu Archipelago,
were we no it was introduced by man from china, god knows when,
I have become aware of several people over the years that tried Basjoo seeds from then, but the one thing we all had in common was no one germinated any, I did wonder if that was because the seeds had come from the same clone.

Gabe15 · 02-19-2008, 05:15 AM

I agree with Frank, Ive never heard of any wild Musa not being able to self pollinate. Many banana species (like many plant species) require specific germinating conditions, and the whole reason we have the entire subforum on germination is because banana seeds in general are notoriously hard to germinate, so just because none germinated it does not mean they are not viable. This is an easy case to solve though, if you ever come across basjoo seed you believe to be inviable, crack a few open and see if they have embryos. The only banana seeds I have found to not consistently form embryos have been a few interspecific hybrids (though they generally still cross easily) and edible/wild hybrids.

tony palmer · 02-19-2008, 05:58 AM

Gabe, the seeds that Chiltern offered were in the Addendum, and they said they had just come in,
So they should of been fresh, You would of thought one or two would of germinated I’m not saying you are wrong but its something to consider .

Lodewijkp · 02-19-2008, 06:48 AM

maybe a cross between an basjoo and a other nannner maybe wil give more viable seeds ? basjoo X sikkimensis ?
some genetic diversity wouldn't hurt.

mrbungalow · 02-19-2008, 06:54 AM

About Chiltern seeds: They still use names such as "Musa hookeri" and "Musa ensete".
I don't think they have any control over their banana-species.

From what I have heard, basjoo does produce viable seeds, but only if plants are flowered "Out of sync." because of male and female flowers.

It annoys the hell out of me that basjoo seeds aren't available.
I have a very special reward for the person who can prove he/she has/can produced viable musa basjoo seeds. But I think you need to be in a warm climate or have a giant greenhouse to do it. So if you think you can produce viable/pure basjoo seeds in fair amounts, drop me a PM.

Erlend

Erlend

bikoro child · 02-19-2008, 06:57 AM

M Klein in France from tropicaflore sells a Musa Basjoo Hybridum some years ago I called him and he told me it was an hybrid between Basjoo ans musa parasidiaca...This Basjoo makes leaves more dark and thick ...
I do'nt buy to this nursery cause not very serious...

mrbungalow · 02-19-2008, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bikoro child

M Klein in France from tropicaflore sells a Musa Basjoo Hybridum some years ago I called him and he told me it was an hybrid between Basjoo ans musa parasidiaca...This Basjoo makes leaves more dark and thick ...
I do'nt buy to this nursery cause not very serious...

As I said; Anyone who can successfully produce m. basjoo seeds and come up with proof gets a reward personally from me.

(And "musa formosana" doesn't count, since it's now officially described as "musa itinerans var. formasana")

tony palmer · 02-19-2008, 10:35 AM

Erlend, I have used chiltern seeds, for many years and found them to better
then most. Chiltern Seeds rare flower heirloom veg and herbs - Chiltern Seeds secure online shop

Lodewijkp · 02-19-2008, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bikoro child

M Klein in France from tropicaflore sells a Musa Basjoo Hybridum some years ago I called him and he told me it was an hybrid between Basjoo ans musa parasidiaca...This Basjoo makes leaves more dark and thick ...
I do'nt buy to this nursery cause not very serious...

i also got a few basjoo that is darker thick leaves and few splotches but the seller was sure it was 100% basjoo (its a pup, parent did not have this)

i also got some hybrid seeds but they don't contain a embryo.

mrbungalow · 02-19-2008, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Erlend, I have used chiltern seeds, for many years and found them to better
then most. Chiltern Seeds rare flower heirloom veg and herbs - Chiltern Seeds secure online shop

I don't doubt that they have quality seeds and that their intentions are good. However, since they use outdated or non-existing names for atleast 2 of the musa species, I would definately buy from another vendor. Their variety of other plant-species is nevertheless huge. Still, it's a pain when you're not 100% sure what you're getting, and £4.50 for 6 seeds of musa sikkimensis (outdated "hookeri" used on chilterns' site) is just ridiculus!! A couple of other online vendors either specialize in bananas and/or hardy tropicals.

Lodewijkp · 02-19-2008, 05:03 PM

a vendor where i use to buy count 1,95 euro for 10 seeds and 10 euro for 100 sikkimensis seeds, seeds looked fresh and not dried.
anyway the prize does not garantee fresh viable seeds, at one vendor i did buy 100 sikki seeds for 20 euro's and none sprouted neither did they look fresh

bigdog · 02-19-2008, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony palmer

Nice one frank, were the seed fertile,!

I have become aware of several people over the years that tried Basjoo seeds from then, but the one thing we all had in common was no one germinated any, I did wonder if that was because the seeds had come from the same clone.

I never even did try to germinate the seeds. In fact, I'm looking at them right now, sitting on a shelf on my desk. I just never bothered to try because it was only three seeds, and because I was only trying to produce some seeds to see if I could. Now, if it had been a cross, you bet I would've given them a shot!

I do know a fellow in South Carolina that has successfully germinated at least one Musa basjoo seed, and now has that plant growing in his garden. Buy I don't have proof, Erlend, LOL!

mrbungalow · 02-20-2008, 02:06 AM

Quote:

I do know a fellow in South Carolina that has successfully germinated at least one Musa basjoo seed, and now has that plant growing in his garden. Buy I don't have proof, Erlend, LOL!

Chronological pictures of the flower, fruit, seeds, seedlings, and young plant would be good enough for me!

Could you tell me more about your friend in SC? Did he have several stools of m. basjoo or just one? What time of the year did they flower?

Erlend

tony palmer · 02-20-2008, 03:10 AM

Hi Frank,
the basjoo seeds that I got from Chiltern were like no other banana seed I have tried
They were brown flattish and warty, are yours like that.

Tony

Gabe15 · 02-20-2008, 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony palmer

Hi Frank,
the basjoo seeds that I got from Chiltern were like no other banana seed I have tried
They were brown flattish and warty, are yours like that.

Tony

Thats how my wild collected seeds were.

mrbungalow · 02-20-2008, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Hi Frank,
the basjoo seeds that I got from Chiltern were like no other banana seed I have tried
They were brown flattish and warty, are yours like that.

Tony

That's David Constantines' description of basjoo seeds too.

But the ones that Chiltern sold, werent they supposed to be a hybrid? And where would such a hybrid be sourced? Why haven't other nurseries/ Seed dealers devoted to bananas and tropicals been offering these seeds? (Sceptical by nature.......)

BTW, When did you buy the seeds? I see they don't have them now unfortunately... Is it too late for them to sprout?

Erlend

tony palmer · 02-20-2008, 09:33 AM

Erlend,
i bought the seeds in 1996 as did Paul Spracklin of the UK Oasis
and a number of people i know, the seed were collected on the island of
Ryuk south of Japan, i dont know that there is any other banana on there
other than Basjoo?, i have never seen them for sale since then but if i do
i will let you know.

Tony

02-18-2008, 09:41 AM	#1 (permalink)
Lodewijkp Location: the netherlands Zone: 7a 8a Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 149 BananaBucks : 201,335 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 29 Times Was Thanked 24 Times in 15 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	M. Basjoo seeds hi why are basjoo seeds so rare and hard to find on the internet ? are they selling it by a different name ? are basjoo seeds easy to germinate ? __________________ www.Theorionproject.org

02-18-2008, 10:32 AM	#2 (permalink)
tony palmer Junior Member tony palmer's Photo Gallery Zone: UK Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 204 BananaBucks : 91,977 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 175 Times Was Thanked 237 Times in 78 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: M. Basjoo seeds Hi lodewijkp, The problem with basjoo is you need two different clones to cross pollinate they are not self fertile. Out side Sichuan and a couple of neighbouring provinces were they live in the wild, most basjoo are from the same clones, because they are propagated by pups or tcd. But they do produce seeds because I was talking to some one last year and he works for Kew gardens in London and he said thay had received seeds of Musa basjoo that year from Sichuan. Tony

02-18-2008, 10:04 PM	#3 (permalink)
bigdog ******* bigdog's Photo Gallery** Location: Gainesville, FL Find me on the map! Zone: 8b Name: Frank Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,004 BananaBucks : 968,683 Feedback: 7 / 100% Said "Thanks" 218 Times Was Thanked 1,790 Times in 504 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 131 Times	Re: M. Basjoo seeds Tony, I don't know where that rumor got started, but it is false. I have pollinated Musa basjoo flowers with pollen from a different flower in the same mat and got seeds just last year. I only got one banana, and there were only 3 seeds in it, but it did work! And I would imagine that seeds are hard to find because it is such an easy banana to find in cultivation. Kind of like how not many people propagate Colocasia esculenta by seed, it is just so easy to get a clone by other means. It would be nice to see a bit more genetic diversity with musa basjoo however!

02-19-2008, 03:42 AM	#4 (permalink)
tony palmer Junior Member tony palmer's Photo Gallery Zone: UK Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 204 BananaBucks : 91,977 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 175 Times Was Thanked 237 Times in 78 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: M. Basjoo seeds Nice one frank, were the seed fertile,! I have tried Musa Basjoo seeds that Chiltern seeds had on offer In 1996 they said the seed came from the Ryukyu Archipelago, were we no it was introduced by man from china, god knows when, I have become aware of several people over the years that tried Basjoo seeds from then, but the one thing we all had in common was no one germinated any, I did wonder if that was because the seeds had come from the same clone.

02-19-2008, 05:15 AM	#5 (permalink)
Gabe15 Moderator Gabe15's Photo Gallery Location: Oahu, Hawaii Find me on the map! Zone: 12 Name: Gabe Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,892 BananaBucks : 13,504,497 Feedback: 5 / 100% Said "Thanks" 2 Times Was Thanked 8,246 Times in 2,201 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 8 Times	Re: M. Basjoo seeds I agree with Frank, Ive never heard of any wild Musa not being able to self pollinate. Many banana species (like many plant species) require specific germinating conditions, and the whole reason we have the entire subforum on germination is because banana seeds in general are notoriously hard to germinate, so just because none germinated it does not mean they are not viable. This is an easy case to solve though, if you ever come across basjoo seed you believe to be inviable, crack a few open and see if they have embryos. The only banana seeds I have found to not consistently form embryos have been a few interspecific hybrids (though they generally still cross easily) and edible/wild hybrids. __________________ Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties. Last edited by Gabe15 : 02-19-2008 at 05:22 AM.

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02-19-2008, 05:58 AM	#6 (permalink)
tony palmer Junior Member tony palmer's Photo Gallery Zone: UK Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 204 BananaBucks : 91,977 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 175 Times Was Thanked 237 Times in 78 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: M. Basjoo seeds Gabe, the seeds that Chiltern offered were in the Addendum, and they said they had just come in, So they should of been fresh, You would of thought one or two would of germinated I’m not saying you are wrong but its something to consider .

02-19-2008, 06:48 AM	#7 (permalink)
Lodewijkp Location: the netherlands Zone: 7a 8a Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 149 BananaBucks : 201,335 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 29 Times Was Thanked 24 Times in 15 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: M. Basjoo seeds maybe a cross between an basjoo and a other nannner maybe wil give more viable seeds ? basjoo X sikkimensis ? some genetic diversity wouldn't hurt. __________________ www.Theorionproject.org

02-19-2008, 06:54 AM	#8 (permalink)
mrbungalow Freezing member mrbungalow's Photo Gallery Location: Bergen, Norway Find me on the map! Zone: 8 Name: Erlend Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 598 BananaBucks : 149,771 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 14 Times Was Thanked 165 Times in 78 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 3 Times	Re: M. Basjoo seeds About Chiltern seeds: They still use names such as "Musa hookeri" and "Musa ensete". I don't think they have any control over their banana-species. From what I have heard, basjoo does produce viable seeds, but only if plants are flowered "Out of sync." because of male and female flowers. It annoys the hell out of me that basjoo seeds aren't available. I have a very special reward for the person who can prove he/she has/can produced viable musa basjoo seeds. But I think you need to be in a warm climate or have a giant greenhouse to do it. So if you think you can produce viable/pure basjoo seeds in fair amounts, drop me a PM. Erlend Erlend __________________

02-19-2008, 06:57 AM	#9 (permalink)
bikoro child bikoro child's Photo Gallery Location: south-west of France Find me on the map! Zone: zone 8 Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,026 BananaBucks : 373,795 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 381 Times Was Thanked 578 Times in 208 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 56 Times	Re: M. Basjoo seeds M Klein in France from tropicaflore sells a Musa Basjoo Hybridum some years ago I called him and he told me it was an hybrid between Basjoo ans musa parasidiaca...This Basjoo makes leaves more dark and thick ... I do'nt buy to this nursery cause not very serious... __________________ Ivan

02-19-2008, 10:35 AM	#11 (permalink)
tony palmer Junior Member tony palmer's Photo Gallery Zone: UK Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 204 BananaBucks : 91,977 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 175 Times Was Thanked 237 Times in 78 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: M. Basjoo seeds Erlend, I have used chiltern seeds, for many years and found them to better then most. Chiltern Seeds rare flower heirloom veg and herbs - Chiltern Seeds secure online shop

02-19-2008, 05:03 PM	#14 (permalink)
Lodewijkp Location: the netherlands Zone: 7a 8a Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 149 BananaBucks : 201,335 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 29 Times Was Thanked 24 Times in 15 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: M. Basjoo seeds a vendor where i use to buy count 1,95 euro for 10 seeds and 10 euro for 100 sikkimensis seeds, seeds looked fresh and not dried. anyway the prize does not garantee fresh viable seeds, at one vendor i did buy 100 sikki seeds for 20 euro's and none sprouted neither did they look fresh __________________ www.Theorionproject.org

02-20-2008, 03:10 AM	#17 (permalink)
tony palmer Junior Member tony palmer's Photo Gallery Zone: UK Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 204 BananaBucks : 91,977 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 175 Times Was Thanked 237 Times in 78 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: M. Basjoo seeds Hi Frank, the basjoo seeds that I got from Chiltern were like no other banana seed I have tried They were brown flattish and warty, are yours like that. Tony

02-20-2008, 09:33 AM	#20 (permalink)
tony palmer Junior Member tony palmer's Photo Gallery Zone: UK Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 204 BananaBucks : 91,977 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 175 Times Was Thanked 237 Times in 78 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: M. Basjoo seeds Erlend, i bought the seeds in 1996 as did Paul Spracklin of the UK Oasis and a number of people i know, the seed were collected on the island of Ryuk south of Japan, i dont know that there is any other banana on there other than Basjoo?, i have never seen them for sale since then but if i do i will let you know. Tony

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