Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

I hand pollinated some bananas last winter when my Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca bloomed, then sowed them in April.





The leaves of the mother plant are slightly mottled red sometimes, with reddish undersides to the leaves. They are also very leathery and thick, and would probably hold up quite well in the wind.


Got no germination from them, and gave up on them. I have the box still in my room, but with no bottom heat at all. Much to my surprise, I opened the lid yesterday and found a two leaf seedling! It is definitely a one-of-a-kind plant, since the female parent is new to cultivation and is an undescribed species still (it was originally sold as M. aurantiaca by Trebrown Nurseries in the UK). Unfortunately...I have no access to a greenhouse anymore, so this little guy will have to survive the winter in my house. I have it in a reptile tank right now, so it is getting heat and light during the day at least. It will likely be years before this plant has a proper name, since one of the parents is undescribed. The male parent is Musa velutina, and it is the tall form that Randy4UT has growing in his garden.

Pics coming soon!

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

That's really cool Frank!
Do both Musa's at least belong to the same group, or is that not required for a succesfull hybridisation?

Do you have any idea how long you can store pollen at -20 deg C?

Kind regards,
Remko.

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

Hi Remko,

On the surface, the unidentified mother plant appears to be in the Rhodochlamys group, along with Musa velutina. I do know that plants from Rhodochlamys and Eumusa groups can successfully produce fertile seeds, since it has been done before with M. velutina and M. balbisiana.

I'm not sure about storing pollen, but have often wondered the same thing myself. There's not much, if any, information about it in scholarly papers that I could find in a search a few years ago. According to some firsthand reports, Musa pollen only stays viable for a few days at room temperature.

Frank

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

Great job, BigDog!!! Will, indeed, be interesting to see what it looks like mature! If and when it ever pups, I would love for you to keep me in mind for one, as I would love to have an offspring of the Daddy!!! Hope you are doing well!!!

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

Keep it humid! The reptile tank should work fine, but since I know you mostly have leopard geckos, I just wanted to make sure you had enough humidity in there for a Musa. If you have an undertank heater you can put a layer of gravel in the tank and add water, placing the Musa in a pot on top. You can also try an aquarium water heater in a large jar of water placed inside the tank. Or, you can just mist a lot. Whatever you do, I hope it makes it. I'll be curious to see what the plant is like after a summer of growth and a winter outside.

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

Yeah, I just want to keep it alive through the winter right now! It must have been in that dark box for a couple of weeks, since it already had a second leaf. It looks too be acclimating fine today. I'm just going to hand mist it frequently.

Randy, if and when it ever produces a pup, it's got your name on it!

Frank

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

OK, not much to look at, but here it is anyway.

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

Almost looks like it has a small sucker already?!
I've seen it before that seeds sprout in two points so to speak, giving two stems,...

Kind regards,
Remko.

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

That could be two sprouting off of the same seed. I've had that happen.

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

No, that's actually just the second leaf. I buried it a few millimeters above the meristem because the media was drying out when I discovered it, and I wanted some roots to be able to grow from the top of the corm as well. I have had 2 sprouts from the same seed in the past, but not this time. I wish!

Frank

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

Congratulations! Feels great to have some germinate...especially if they turn out to be rare.

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

Nice one Frank!! I wanna bid on the seeds from this and another cross that I'm sure you are gonna do! .....If and when it flowers and fruits.

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

Well, I finally got my father to take a picture of this plant tonight, since Gainesville is getting set for a hard freeze tonight. Interestingly, my folks house didn't get a freeze in late November, as other parts of town did. I guess they might be in a bit of a warm pocket.

This little plant suffered pretty good until I got it planted in September. Keep in mind that is was only about 6 inches tall and had 2 leaves when I planted it in the ground...in late September!



I couldn't believe the growth! Plus, it has a few pups as well. It does have some strong red markings on the top of the leaves, purple leaf backs, as well as dark purple midribs (like the mother). With Musa velutina as the pollen donor, it should have a pretty good deal of cold-hardiness as well. Click on the picture for a closeup.

I'm happy tonight!

Frank

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

lovely looking plant!

Will it self pollinate like Velutina? I wonder what the second generation will look like?

I'm hugely jealous

Does it have a name?

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

Frank what kind of Palm is that?

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

Mitchell, the two palms on either side are Washingtonia filibustas. There's a very small Needle Palm in the right corner. Gonna have to move it someday soon (the Musa), but it was a good spot for it for a while.

Frank

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

Not sure! I'll let you know next year!

No name yet. Any suggestions? LOL.

Thanks.

Frank

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

I've tried diligently to create a hybrid with velutina pollen on mysore, raja puri and cavendish...so far no luck...my next try will be with saba....

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

Jeffrey, try 'Orinoco' as well. Good luck!

Frank

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

Well I haven't posted to this thread in over 2 years because the banana didn't make it the following year. The squirrels got to it the following spring, as they did several others. I never see that problem here, but my mother has witnessed it in her yard. They like the new sprouts, and will continue to nibble on them until the plant has no reserves left and dies. Needless to say, I was pretty heartbroken about it, since this was the only seed to sprout from that batch of seeds.

Until now!

I kept the old seeds in the same box for over 4 years, but they have been dried out for the last 3 years or so. Last month I was cleaning the room that they were in, on a shelf, and got the box down and re-hydrated them to amuse myself. I didn't give them any bottom heat. Today, I decided to check the box, and this is what I saw:



There are at least 3 more seeds sprouting not pictured also. Here's the label on the top of the box:



Guess this proves that Musa seeds can stay viable for several years in the right conditions (in this case, completely dry and room temperature). I'm pretty happy, but now I have to figure out how to get them through the winter inside as seedlings. I certainly don't want to lose this hybrid again!

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

Just a little update today. I've potted most of the seedlings up. One of them died soon thereafter, and 2 are looking kind of rough, but the rest (5) look pretty good. I've been exposing them to natural sunlight as much as I can, but taking them indoors at night (since we've been having lows in the low 40s recently). It's been really nice and warm here the past few days, so they are getting some good heat and light to hopefully beef them up a little before I have to take them inside for the rest of the winter. They are still pretty puny, and I really wish I had a greenhouse right about now. I have my doubts as to whether or not I can get one or two to pull through for the next several months indoors, but will do my best! I still have 2 more in the box to pot up when they get a bit larger.

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

That is awesome!

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

I am assuming from the seedlings that the cross was self fertile, unless there is more to this story that you haven't been telling. Arr hang on you did tell the rest of the story, I just didn't read it. Excellent result!!

As for a name how about 'Musa Magnus Canis'

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

Tis is astonishing, that 4 years old seeds still are germinating. I am now thinking about the old seeds from Musa hirta, peekelii and other species from PNG and Borneo. I will try this in Brazil in my chácara when I am definitively moved to Brazil after getting a visa.

Best wishes
Joachim

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

I never expected those seeds to germinate. I just didn't have the heart to throw them away! I wasn't sure if I'd ever get the conditions to make that cross again. I'm glad I kept them, and even more glad that I re-hydrated them! I think there is still a lot that we don't know about germinating Musa seeds, how long they can remain viable while dormant, etc.

My main concern right now is keeping the seedlings alive for the next few months. I have grow lights, humidifiers, etc., so hopefully I can give them what they need until spring.

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

Totally cool! Go Frank! I wish I could make some cross with Velutina. I think that's the one that would definitely make a great cross with something else. How does one decide whether to make Velutina the male or the female in a cross? Doesn't it go female x male when naming?

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

That's correct, Austin. In order to make M. velutina the female parent, one would need to cut the immature anthers off of the flower before the pollen came close to ripening. Since M. velutina has hermaphrodite flowers, it will pollinate itself unless you take measures to make sure it does not. That means making sure the pollen from nearby flowers didn't get on the stigma as well. It's much easier to have M. velutina be the male parent, especially with another Musa that does not have hermaphrodite flowers. You just hand-pollinate your target female flowers with M. velutina pollen, then make sure to cut the first few hands of male flowers off of your female parent plant.

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

Well all but two are dead. They just don't seem to have the will to live. I have them under a grow light with a heat mat as well, but the 2 left are struggling, working on their third leaf. The others rotted off pretty quickly, as if they decided all at once to die. Very frustrating! I still have the two parent plants, so I suppose I can always make this cross in the future.

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

Sorry to hear that. Are they staying to wet?

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

Well, all you really need is for one to live. I've never had much luck growing Musa seedlings indoors. If they germinate in early summer they do fine started in shade outside. I guess I need to experiment some more. Maybe one if those high Kelvin LED lights closer than a traditional bulb would allow. Come to think of it, I might try Eucalyptus again that way. They get so leggy without super-bright lights that otherwise would cook them.

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

Yeah, my enthusiasm seeing them germinate was definitely tempered by realizing what time of year it was. I knew the challenging part would be to get even one through the winter.

I have been keeping them very warm, and letting them dry out between waterings (although not completely dry). The heat mat underneath them, combined with the grow light right over them keeps them pretty warm. Still, it isn't ideal conditions obviously...but I'm doing what I can.

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

well i live in cornwall only about 12 miles from trebrown, but it seems to be rather private and doesnt appear to be open to public - please correct me if you see this, having plenty of success germinating velutina seed bought on ebay from mark davies now that i purchased a vitopod propagator - run it at 30degs 10 hours a day. nothing big enough to show yet but will post pics when they develop.

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

BigDog, update? Did any survive?

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

No, they all died. I'll attempt the cross again sometime though, since I still have both parents. I think my light may have been part of the problem. It is a metal halide, but not a grow light. Then again, maybe the seedlings were just weak because the seeds were so old. Wish they had germinated in the summer!

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

I tried to cross Orinoco x Velutina but nope lol, but I am not that familiar with the workings of banana pollination.

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

Orinoco is a triploid, velutina is diploid; while the cross might work, you would have to make the cross a bunch of times as that is what the banana breeders do. Like maybe one seed per bunch if they are lucky.

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

How about Musa bananasorgii var. Biggus Doggus Moderatus? :ha:

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

Very fascinating trying to breed new hybrids.

At least for citrus seedlings, I've found that they grow much better inside an enclosure to hold in the humidity and some of the heat.

Heat mats underneath the growing seedlings sound like a good idea but in reality they tend to cause the soil to dry out quickly, and then you risk the seedlings suffering from dry soil if you even once forget to constantly keep the soil moist (so it's too much maintenance). (I've had much better luck with a small 250W heater on a therostat outlet heating up the air inside the tent enclosure. That way it heats the surroundings evenly, without drawing moisture away from a heat gradient (when cold air is warmed, it suddenly can absorb more water, or similarly, when warm plant leaves are in contact with colder air, they lose more moisture).

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

Hi all,
I want to ask everyone, How do you pollinate for two musa species when the time of flowering is different?

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

Plant lots of plants of each species you want to cross, try to get them at growth stages to spread flowering times to get crossover.

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

I do not have enough seeds to grow in large quantities, not to mention the very low rate of germination of wild bananas.
Can I store their pollen grains to pollinate the mother plant when it flowers?

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

If you get one of each species you can split off pups to start separate mats. Short answer on pollen, no you cant. Long answer is some research has shown some positive results.

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

I will try with the biggest amount of seed possible. I also hear the researching about pollen, maybe so difficult.

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

Heres info on pollen storage:
https://scialert.net/fulltextmobile/...r.2011.554.563

Re: Birth of a New Hybrid Musa: Musa sp. aff. aurantiaca (Trebrown seeds) x velutina
 

Many thanks!