E. Maurelii propagation experiment

Olafhenny · 10-07-2013, 08:02 PM

This is about an experiment to propagate Ensete Maurelii without destroying the mother plant.
It did not work out – this time. I have not given up though and intent to try again next year with
a different approach, but first I have to get it through the winter, and that is another experiment.

Sometimes we can learn more from failures than from successes, so I decided to give an account
of what I did:

The premise:
From postings here I have learned (this is my first E. Maurelii), that when the PS is cut off the stump
sprouts a number of Pups. So I thought, if I cut a piece of the corm off a live plant, it should also
grow. Also there was some indication, that pups may grow out of injury.

The morning of the "surgery":

I had already dug a hole for my “passive heating system” (PHS) very close to the E.M., so that I just
had to remove only a small amount of soil next to the corm, so I could lean the heating cage into
it today.

First I laid out the surgery tools

Then I removed the last bit of soil from the corm. - Ooops, no corm! There were just some white
roots, seemingly coming straight out of the bottom of the pseudo stem.
Well, I can’t stop now, the show must go on!

So I bravely sliced a section off the PS and dusted the wound with antifungal powder.

I did the same with the slice and tossed it into a pot.

Stuck my PHS into the prepared hole, so it would be there for the winter...

...and backfilled it.

The slice seemed to grow at first, pushing out a root, where I did not expect it

However, I made a number of mistakes on this first attempt:
• I should have placed the slice on its side in the pot, instead of cut face down.
• I also placed the pot containing it in the shade (good) but close to a sprinkler, thus over-
watering it, forgot about it and in the end it all rotted away, new root and all.
• There was nothing sprouting out of the injury at the plant.

Next year I will probably try to slice a wedge out of the plant bottom, trying to get to the centre,
but not beyond it. And I will certainly pay more attention to the origin of the E.M., Abyssinia
(now Ethiopia), is hot and only about 20” of annual rainfall, mostly bunched together June through
August. The rest presumably pretty dry. Accordingly, I will try to get the wedge started in peat
moss, similar in moisture, as when I store canna-lily rhizomes during the winter.

But first I have to get it through the winter here in HZ6 outdoors. Another experiment for which
I will employ my Permanent banana shelter for winter and spring, and the PHS, which I installed
beside the E.M. and which is described in more detail here: My passive heating system..

dana mastro · 10-21-2013, 05:07 PM

oh and on top of that you can use a root compound instead of fungicide because root compounds help it grow back and get stronger roots and putting those chemicals on straight with no water or dilution on the corm is why it died lol

Olafhenny · 10-21-2013, 05:53 PM

Good point, Banna, thanks,
Olaf

stevelau1911 · 10-21-2013, 06:34 PM

Just wondering, why would you choose to propagate them in the fall?

Olafhenny · 10-21-2013, 06:52 PM

I did that on August 12. I posted the report on it after I was sure that neither the slice nor
the main plant would yield any results. Before that the plant was still too small and I did not
want to wait another year. Besides I thought that, if I did get any pups, I might be able to
winter them inside.

stevelau1911 · 10-21-2013, 07:55 PM

I intend to split up one of my dormant ensete maureliis some time in early spring maybe around mid March or so.

I wonder how much power they can produce coming right out of dormancy. I'm simply intending to cut it up right through the middle and hope that it can callus up to produce lots of pups.

Olafhenny · 10-21-2013, 08:42 PM

Hi Steve,

that would be very interesting, providing you have enough of them to spare one, just in
case the experiment bombs. There is clearly not enough knowledge on this board about
looking after ensetes up here in the Great White North, nor about their propagation.
I wished, I had bought more than one this spring, but I just wanted a 'red leaved banana'
to complement my basjoos and ornatas. I did not know at the time, that you could not
get pups from ensetes easily, nor that they even did not even have a corm.

Next year I will know a lot a lot more about them!

Let us know how you make out with your experiment, if you go through with it.

Thanks,
Olaf

pmurphy · 10-21-2013, 10:13 PM

I wish I could give you some pointers but I honestly don't know how I ended up with my "Frankenbanana" - there are at least 8 pups, 3 of which are a good size. One thing I do know is that what ever few inches that was left of the p-stem had been dug into and mutilated so there was no smooth cut, just lots of rough edges.
We'll see how everything looks in the spring and maybe think of seperating them then.....or maybe I'll just let them grow.....

Olafhenny · 10-21-2013, 11:06 PM

Hi Pam,

Could you please elaborate how it came, that it "...is that what ever few inches that was left
of the p-stem had been dug into and mutilated so there was no smooth cut, just lots of rough
edges."?

It sounds, like something has torn into that p-stem. Had the top been cut off before those
'injuries' occurred? And if so, how high above the soil level? How can we duplicate, what
happened to your plant?

Also, how and where do those pups sprout from the PS? Do they come down from the
base out of the soil or above ground from the injuries in the stem? Your photo does not
show this.

Thanks,
Olaf

pmurphy · 10-22-2013, 09:03 AM

The parent plant was sickly when I recieve it (leaves almost entirely yellow). I tried cutting back the dying leaves and when that didn't work I finally cut it off at a height of about 6-8". During all this it had been sitting in a humid greenhouse so it devoped rot and what was left of the p-stem slowly started to rot away. I tried to remove some of the rot but it didn't seem to make any difference and so I pretty much gave up on it (I was pretty new to bananas then). When the weather warmed I put the pot outside and it began to dry up but by then there was not much left and I think some animal might have been chewing at it because when it finally stopped rotting it was maybe 2 inches above soil level and the top surface was very rough. I would have thown it out at that point because it appeared to have no life left in it but I was very busy and sort of forgot about it until I noticed the first sprouts almost 3 months later.

As you can see, the pups are coming from the sides of the p-stem at the base, but in some cases a second pup would push up between the first and the p-stem - if you look between the 2 pups you can see a third emerging.

And then they started appearing out from the sides, emerging from below the soil level.
I honest would not even know where to start to try to recreate the damage and therefore the results. One thing I do know is that I did not remove the dying leaves entirely but simply cut them and left the "stump" so the p-stem was not smooth when the rot started. Perhaps the fact that the base of the leaves was still attached might have something to do with it? - almost like sending out new leaves.....?

Olafhenny · 10-22-2013, 10:13 AM

Thanks, Pam. that pretty well jibes with the other successful attempt to propagate
ensetes, as recorded here: Corm propagation a success

They all involved cutting off the p-stem completely, in effect destroying the mother plant.
I am trying to find a way around that, by just causing enough injury to stimulate the
development of pups while keeping mom growing. the development of a root out of the
side of the slice, I cut off, seems to show, that this might be possible. Unfortunately
I permitted over-watering of it through inattention.

pmurphy · 10-22-2013, 11:25 AM

Keep trying, and let us know the results of your next experiment.
Good luck

10-07-2013, 08:02 PM	#1 (permalink)
Olafhenny Olafhenny's Photo Gallery Location: Penticton, BC, Okanagan Valley, Canada Find me on the map! Zone: Hardiness Zone 6 Name: Olaf Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,705 BananaBucks : 297,528 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 2,050 Times Was Thanked 2,012 Times in 876 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 77 Times	E. Maurelii propagation experiment This is about an experiment to propagate Ensete Maurelii without destroying the mother plant. It did not work out – this time. I have not given up though and intent to try again next year with a different approach, but first I have to get it through the winter, and that is another experiment. Sometimes we can learn more from failures than from successes, so I decided to give an account of what I did: The premise: From postings here I have learned (this is my first E. Maurelii), that when the PS is cut off the stump sprouts a number of Pups. So I thought, if I cut a piece of the corm off a live plant, it should also grow. Also there was some indication, that pups may grow out of injury. The morning of the "surgery": I had already dug a hole for my “passive heating system” (PHS) very close to the E.M., so that I just had to remove only a small amount of soil next to the corm, so I could lean the heating cage into it today. First I laid out the surgery tools Then I removed the last bit of soil from the corm. - Ooops, no corm! There were just some white roots, seemingly coming straight out of the bottom of the pseudo stem. Well, I can’t stop now, the show must go on! So I bravely sliced a section off the PS and dusted the wound with antifungal powder. I did the same with the slice and tossed it into a pot. Stuck my PHS into the prepared hole, so it would be there for the winter... ...and backfilled it. The slice seemed to grow at first, pushing out a root, where I did not expect it However, I made a number of mistakes on this first attempt: • I should have placed the slice on its side in the pot, instead of cut face down. • I also placed the pot containing it in the shade (good) but close to a sprinkler, thus over- watering it, forgot about it and in the end it all rotted away, new root and all. • There was nothing sprouting out of the injury at the plant. Next year I will probably try to slice a wedge out of the plant bottom, trying to get to the centre, but not beyond it. And I will certainly pay more attention to the origin of the E.M., Abyssinia (now Ethiopia), is hot and only about 20” of annual rainfall, mostly bunched together June through August. The rest presumably pretty dry. Accordingly, I will try to get the wedge started in peat moss, similar in moisture, as when I store canna-lily rhizomes during the winter. But first I have to get it through the winter here in HZ6 outdoors. Another experiment for which I will employ my Permanent banana shelter for winter and spring, and the PHS, which I installed beside the E.M. and which is described in more detail here: My passive heating system.. __________________ The reason I joined this forum was to share experiences, my own and those of others and to learn from them.

10-21-2013, 05:07 PM	#2 (permalink)
dana mastro Banned Location: moscow idaho Find me on the map! Zone: 6 - 7 Name: banna Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 124 BananaBucks : 44,631 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 3 Times Was Thanked 82 Times in 53 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 18 Times	Re: E. Maurelii propagation experiment oh and on top of that you can use a root compound instead of fungicide because root compounds help it grow back and get stronger roots and putting those chemicals on straight with no water or dilution on the corm is why it died lol

10-21-2013, 05:53 PM	#3 (permalink)
Olafhenny Olafhenny's Photo Gallery Location: Penticton, BC, Okanagan Valley, Canada Find me on the map! Zone: Hardiness Zone 6 Name: Olaf Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,705 BananaBucks : 297,528 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 2,050 Times Was Thanked 2,012 Times in 876 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 77 Times	Re: E. Maurelii propagation experiment Good point, Banna, thanks, Olaf __________________ The reason I joined this forum was to share experiences, my own and those of others and to learn from them.

10-21-2013, 06:34 PM	#4 (permalink)
stevelau1911 stevelau1911's Photo Gallery Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 458 BananaBucks : 168,140 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 51 Times Was Thanked 563 Times in 258 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 24 Times	Re: E. Maurelii propagation experiment Just wondering, why would you choose to propagate them in the fall? __________________ I'm in zone 6 upstate NY, specialize in growing temperate cold hardy bamboos(mainly phyllostachys) and starting to get into bananas. my picture website is http://www.flickr.com/photos/31489820@N02/ http://stevespeonygarden.blogspot.com/

10-21-2013, 06:52 PM	#5 (permalink)
Olafhenny Olafhenny's Photo Gallery Location: Penticton, BC, Okanagan Valley, Canada Find me on the map! Zone: Hardiness Zone 6 Name: Olaf Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,705 BananaBucks : 297,528 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 2,050 Times Was Thanked 2,012 Times in 876 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 77 Times	Re: E. Maurelii propagation experiment I did that on August 12. I posted the report on it after I was sure that neither the slice nor the main plant would yield any results. Before that the plant was still too small and I did not want to wait another year. Besides I thought that, if I did get any pups, I might be able to winter them inside. __________________ The reason I joined this forum was to share experiences, my own and those of others and to learn from them.

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10-21-2013, 07:55 PM	#6 (permalink)
stevelau1911 stevelau1911's Photo Gallery Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 458 BananaBucks : 168,140 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 51 Times Was Thanked 563 Times in 258 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 24 Times	Re: E. Maurelii propagation experiment I intend to split up one of my dormant ensete maureliis some time in early spring maybe around mid March or so. I wonder how much power they can produce coming right out of dormancy. I'm simply intending to cut it up right through the middle and hope that it can callus up to produce lots of pups. __________________ I'm in zone 6 upstate NY, specialize in growing temperate cold hardy bamboos(mainly phyllostachys) and starting to get into bananas. my picture website is http://www.flickr.com/photos/31489820@N02/ http://stevespeonygarden.blogspot.com/

10-21-2013, 08:42 PM	#7 (permalink)
Olafhenny Olafhenny's Photo Gallery Location: Penticton, BC, Okanagan Valley, Canada Find me on the map! Zone: Hardiness Zone 6 Name: Olaf Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,705 BananaBucks : 297,528 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 2,050 Times Was Thanked 2,012 Times in 876 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 77 Times	Re: E. Maurelii propagation experiment Hi Steve, that would be very interesting, providing you have enough of them to spare one, just in case the experiment bombs. There is clearly not enough knowledge on this board about looking after ensetes up here in the Great White North, nor about their propagation. I wished, I had bought more than one this spring, but I just wanted a 'red leaved banana' to complement my basjoos and ornatas. I did not know at the time, that you could not get pups from ensetes easily, nor that they even did not even have a corm. Next year I will know a lot a lot more about them! Let us know how you make out with your experiment, if you go through with it. Thanks, Olaf __________________ The reason I joined this forum was to share experiences, my own and those of others and to learn from them.

10-21-2013, 10:13 PM	#8 (permalink)
pmurphy always pushing the limits Location: Vancouver, BC Canada Find me on the map! Zone: 8B Name: Pam Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 344 BananaBucks : 71,604 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 168 Times Was Thanked 512 Times in 214 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,312 Times	Re: E. Maurelii propagation experiment I wish I could give you some pointers but I honestly don't know how I ended up with my "Frankenbanana" - there are at least 8 pups, 3 of which are a good size. One thing I do know is that what ever few inches that was left of the p-stem had been dug into and mutilated so there was no smooth cut, just lots of rough edges. We'll see how everything looks in the spring and maybe think of seperating them then.....or maybe I'll just let them grow.....

10-21-2013, 11:06 PM	#9 (permalink)
Olafhenny Olafhenny's Photo Gallery Location: Penticton, BC, Okanagan Valley, Canada Find me on the map! Zone: Hardiness Zone 6 Name: Olaf Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,705 BananaBucks : 297,528 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 2,050 Times Was Thanked 2,012 Times in 876 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 77 Times	Re: E. Maurelii propagation experiment Hi Pam, Could you please elaborate how it came, that it "...is that what ever few inches that was left of the p-stem had been dug into and mutilated so there was no smooth cut, just lots of rough edges."? It sounds, like something has torn into that p-stem. Had the top been cut off before those 'injuries' occurred? And if so, how high above the soil level? How can we duplicate, what happened to your plant? Also, how and where do those pups sprout from the PS? Do they come down from the base out of the soil or above ground from the injuries in the stem? Your photo does not show this. Thanks, Olaf __________________ The reason I joined this forum was to share experiences, my own and those of others and to learn from them.

10-22-2013, 09:03 AM	#10 (permalink)
pmurphy always pushing the limits Location: Vancouver, BC Canada Find me on the map! Zone: 8B Name: Pam Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 344 BananaBucks : 71,604 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 168 Times Was Thanked 512 Times in 214 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,312 Times	Re: E. Maurelii propagation experiment The parent plant was sickly when I recieve it (leaves almost entirely yellow). I tried cutting back the dying leaves and when that didn't work I finally cut it off at a height of about 6-8". During all this it had been sitting in a humid greenhouse so it devoped rot and what was left of the p-stem slowly started to rot away. I tried to remove some of the rot but it didn't seem to make any difference and so I pretty much gave up on it (I was pretty new to bananas then). When the weather warmed I put the pot outside and it began to dry up but by then there was not much left and I think some animal might have been chewing at it because when it finally stopped rotting it was maybe 2 inches above soil level and the top surface was very rough. I would have thown it out at that point because it appeared to have no life left in it but I was very busy and sort of forgot about it until I noticed the first sprouts almost 3 months later. As you can see, the pups are coming from the sides of the p-stem at the base, but in some cases a second pup would push up between the first and the p-stem - if you look between the 2 pups you can see a third emerging. And then they started appearing out from the sides, emerging from below the soil level. I honest would not even know where to start to try to recreate the damage and therefore the results. One thing I do know is that I did not remove the dying leaves entirely but simply cut them and left the "stump" so the p-stem was not smooth when the rot started. Perhaps the fact that the base of the leaves was still attached might have something to do with it? - almost like sending out new leaves.....?

10-22-2013, 10:13 AM	#11 (permalink)
Olafhenny Olafhenny's Photo Gallery Location: Penticton, BC, Okanagan Valley, Canada Find me on the map! Zone: Hardiness Zone 6 Name: Olaf Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,705 BananaBucks : 297,528 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 2,050 Times Was Thanked 2,012 Times in 876 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 77 Times	Re: E. Maurelii propagation experiment Thanks, Pam. that pretty well jibes with the other successful attempt to propagate ensetes, as recorded here: Corm propagation a success They all involved cutting off the p-stem completely, in effect destroying the mother plant. I am trying to find a way around that, by just causing enough injury to stimulate the development of pups while keeping mom growing. the development of a root out of the side of the slice, I cut off, seems to show, that this might be possible. Unfortunately I permitted over-watering of it through inattention. __________________ The reason I joined this forum was to share experiences, my own and those of others and to learn from them.

10-22-2013, 11:25 AM	#12 (permalink)
pmurphy always pushing the limits Location: Vancouver, BC Canada Find me on the map! Zone: 8B Name: Pam Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 344 BananaBucks : 71,604 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 168 Times Was Thanked 512 Times in 214 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,312 Times	Re: E. Maurelii propagation experiment Keep trying, and let us know the results of your next experiment. Good luck

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