bananaT

The NSA Is Building the Country's Biggest Spy Center (Watch What You Say) | Threat Level | Wired.com

All you freaky bananas on here better hide your banana nut crunchy cluster recipes....



But really, if the way things are going doesn't chill you to the core, may what ever you pray to, save us all. May be not now, not 5 years from now, or ten, but one day we will pay for not watching over our freedoms......

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Nicolas Naranja

In the long run we have nothing to worry about. American's are actually crazy. We tolerate a lot, but an actual repressive regime doesn't have a chance. Millions of us have no trouble shooting a gun and millions of us have been trained to do it. The mere thought that someone might be out to get our guns induces a gun and bullet buying frenzy.

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Richard

I'm pleased to report that our government does not send military brigades to cleanse neighborhoods where people of the non-ruling political party live.

I'm sorry to report that every time law enforcement agencies try to tighten down on sales of sophisticated guns headed across the border or into the hands of convicted felons, the major U.S. gun suppliers try to stir up a wave of fear among otherwise reasonable and law-abiding people.

The big-brother spying scenario is really far-fetched because it doesn't scale. In order to process all the observations that people are worried about, you'd need a staff of 100 million people along with another 1 million 24-7 computer systems to process it.

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bananaT

Nicolas Naranja: The thing is, it has nothing to do with guns. At the moment anyway. Aren't they the problem though? Clinging to our guns, while everything else is withers.... No?

Richard: Iv read alot of your post, I'm lost as to where Id file you. hmm
Did you read the article? Really, without bias. And you just came away with what you posted here?
Your clearly a highly educated man, more than I am I assure you.
As is, I am truly curious as to what you really think.

I would regress, It seems I would only be biting the hard lumps of lead in my banana nut crunchy clusters alone... But the thin vale of logic just doesn't stand...

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barnetmill

My comments in blue.

Richard

Like Nicholas, I think our culture here in the U.S. would not support the kind of repression alluded to in the article.

Also, as someone with direct knowledge of the NSA technology and the shear volume of information, I can tell you it is focused on what to ignore. It is the same methods used to detect credit card transaction fraud. They are looking for specifics and patterns. To catalog and follow up on every petty comment is intractable.

Our over-populated world is a hostile place. There is danger in both complacency and unbridled fear. Striking a balance between the two is difficult. It is one of the unwanted consequences of the societal rejection of population control.

The situation is exacerbated by marketing practices by both firms and politicians to raise the stress level of the audience so that they find relief in the advertisement. It is an old practice, once disdained but now in full throttle.

Here are a few quotes I've picked up over the years that might give you some insight to my philosophy:

"In human psychology, what appears to be the norm will become the norm. Turn off your television. Permanently."

"A person can't expect to think clearly if they intake substances that damage brain cells." (Smoking by the way, does this through oxygen deprivation.)

"A population educated by here-say is the mark of a 3rd world country."

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Yug

Regarding the first para - you omitted the word "yet" after the word 'not'. Have you seen the new Exec. Order that allows 'taking over' things that are deemed necessary in the event of a 'national crisis'? I'm waiting for a new definition of what actually constitutes a crisis. What is to stop them from taking over agricultural land, and all natural resources next?

Regarding the last para - you don't need quite that many people; you need only screen for certain key words. If those words are also accompanied by other key words in the same communication, then the priority for reviewing that communication is raised. It helps reduce the total amount of items you actually need to review/analyze. It is not at all far-fetched. I deferred to you before about the 'global-warming' data (even though I hold a BA in Mathematics so I'm not ignorant in ways numbers/algorithms may cause deceptive manipulation of data, and still think you are incorrect, but didn't want to further waste my time), however, on this topic I know far more than the vast majority of people in the U.S., and just because you think it is far-fetched does not make it so. This is precisely what they are doing, and have been doing for some time now. By keeping it highly classified, and using the threat of prosecution for any disclosure of the program, the vast majority of people don't know it has been happening for as long as it has, and hold the belief that to do so would be 'far-fetched'.

Keep believing it is just a fantasy; yours is precisely the sort of opinion they are trying to foster - another believer in the myth that it is totally beyond our capabilities; especially an educated person believing in the myth that it is not happening - the education makes you more believable to the 'average Joe', and if spoken with a degree of pomposity and disdain for detractors or differing opinions (no, I'm not saying that you have done so; I merely state it as an example) it gives the opinion additional 'gravitas', and also has the unvoiced threat of ridicule for the deniers. (kinda like what happened with 'global warming', neh?)

barnetmill

People have drawn positive correlations between time of when broadcasting of television arrives in countries versus violent crime rates. I do not know if the correlations were correct or not.
but you know if you are selective there are a lot of good programs on the air waves also.

Richard

Regarding "they". I think it is an error if not paranoid concept to refer to our government as a cohesive single-minded entity.

All of my opinions on this thread plus a $2 bill will get you a cup of coffee down at the local cafe.

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Yug

All you need to do is detain a relatively miniscule percentage of folks, spread the news story, complete with pictures, with the proper spin; and you get the result of a whole lot of intimidation. Most folks rant, rave, and bluster; but a rather small percentage actually are willing to take action, when the result is being sent to a detention facility for 're-education'. And some may just 'disappear'. Then there are the folks that constantly 'pooh-pooh' the story as phony, combined with a number that intentionally spread misinformation.

barnetmill

All of that is a lot easier said than done. Why would they arrest people? For what would they do so and to what end? Whom or what does the government need to opress. I could be out in the street handing sheets of information opposing the government and even if it were all true it would make not one bit of difference. People do not want to hear the truth, they want a good story. There are no viable movements out there that pose a political threat to the ruling interests that control the US. You have fringe elements that do not pose threat other than some violence. I say worry about the economy or weather and not big brother yet. And if you do worry what good will it do you. what actions will you take to make it all better. None is my answer.

kentiopsis

Political stuff does not belong in this forum. We're here because of what we have in common, and that's what I think we should talk about.

I supposed the posts are not closely monitored, but I think threads like this one should be removed as soon as they are started.

barnetmill

I am new so do not really know what the rules are here. But this is the Tiki hut where people talk about anything. forums vary quite a bit as to where the moderator closes a thread.
My position on doom and gloom is that hey chicken little the sky is not falling yet. Another forum that I belong the owner says go out and make money and enjoy yourself because hysteria is counter productive. This is sort of like television relative to various threads in that you can select what you want to read.

Nicolas Naranja

What is our military's record in fighting guerilla warfare? We manage to kill a lot of insurgents, but have had a hard time winning a war. Ultimately, people in this country have a lot of power. As much talk as their is about Obama, he can be voted out, you can vote for a congress that won't let him do anything. Ultimately, we can vote the bums out every two years until we get what we want. When it comes to freedom, American's are their own worst enemies. Look at the proliferation of HOAs.

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barnetmill

That was not always true. We did reasonably well against native american tribes that fought like guerrillas for the fact that massacres and even extermination was ok. In the early 1900's we did push back the Moro juromentos in the Philippines. Although the Moros are still fighting over there. If you fight like Mongols, Roman legions, Nazis etc you can win a guerrilla war. To honest we should not fight like Mongols against people that are not threats to our security.
The country is in poor shape today, but it would likely be worse if Mr. Obama and the congress has not allocated money for the spending projects: but once the money runs out what then? The right wing of the republicans would have led us down the road to another depression and we still might end up going that way.
Relative to personal freedoms I side with libertarians and relative to governing economic policy I sort of reluctantly follow the democrats. The government as it regulates more aspects of our lives becomes potentially more dangerous and this is where we must zealously enforce the first 10 amendments to the constitution of the US of A.