harveyc

I think it's obvious scientists don't always apply science objectively and find it difficult to know what to make of some reports. I think this commentary is interesting, especially towards the end.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/...NTARY/10575140

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momoese

Well one thing we know is that weather patterns will change and become unusual and way more unpredictable without the ice caps in place. This means colder in some areas and warmer in others with unpredictable weather patterns. There is a lot of hype and spin on both sides but we do know the ocean is rising. That is measurable and can't be denied.

harveyc

Mitchel, I've read about ocean rising in some areas but have not read anything that gave me a concrete figure for the global level. I had originally thought ocean levels would fluctuate evenly but I read earlier this year that this is not the case. Also, if Antartica is getting colder (as I've read once before), how can the polar cap there be melting? I live slightly below (current) sea level so this is of great interest to me!!!

I'm open-minded on this but just let most of this stuff pass on through.....

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momoese

Here is one example, possibly the fist people to have to leave their land due to "Climate Change" I don't much care for the term "Global Warming"
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0706/S00130.htm

Here is a bunch of info on Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_level_rise

If the ocean rises to the levels some predict my house will be under water as well. Hopefuly I'll be long gone by then!

harveyc

Mitchel, no offense, but I don't find much convincing evidence in most of these things. They contain a lot of hype. Even if ocean levels are rising, these stories are written on a human interest level and usually lack factual evidence.

Here are some links that contradict some of the claims. I don't know that they are all accurate either, but the first one does include some apparently factual data.

http://www.john-daly.com/press/press-02a.htm#funafuti
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.a...20051207a.html
http://www.iceagenow.com/Falling_Sea_Levels.htm
http://www.iceagenow.com/Atlantic_Sea_Level_Falling.htm
http://www.iceagenow.com/Antarctic_I...ls_Falling.htm
http://illconsidered.blogspot.com/20...s-falling.html
http://globallychanging.blogspot.com...ising-sea.html
http://atlas-conferences.com/c/a/i/q/28.htm

This has been turned into such a political issue, thanks in large part to the media and self-promoting politicians, that it's hard to tell which stories are reliable.

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momoese

I guess people will believe what they want to believe. I personally believe it's best to err on the side of caution. There is plenty of money to be made in caring for our environment. If we can create less pollution and possibly help stop Climate change as a by process then what's stopping us?

On a side note, did you see the documentary Who Killed The Electric Car?

harveyc

I agree, Mitchel, we should conserve for economic sake as well.

No, never saw that. I don't watch TV at all (to conserve time!!!), was it on there?

In my opinion, Al Gore's message would be more believable if he didn't live in a huge mansion and jet around so much. But he is a politician, after all.

Making money out of conservation is part of the problem, though, sort of a catch 22, that leads to people promoting things for their own self-interest.

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inkcube

here is a brief history of CO2 changes in the last 50 years, a rise in CO2 levels is a good indicator of global warming via greenhouse gases. air samples are collected daily at the Mauna Loa observatory.
-1960-2006, Mauna Loa 22% increase from 313 – 381 ppm
-1997-98, increased 2.87 ppm previous annual average 1.4 ppm
-2004-06, went from 377 - 381 ppm
-Could reach 450-550 ppm by 2050
-prior to industrial revolution CO2 level 150-200 ppm, now 380 ppm

there are already changes in growing seasons in the US;
-1950-1990 the average daily min temp. increase 2-3°C in much of Western US
-Since 1990, 10 warmest years on record in US (National Academy of Science)
-New England's growing season is 8 days longer on average than in 1950
-1965, most of Massachusetts in Zone 5 now zone 6
-lilacs are blooming on an average 8 days sooner in the Eastern US they flower in response accumulated temperature - an indicator of warming trends

harveyc

Thanks, inkcube. Are those figures you carry around in your brain or do you have a link where I can read more?

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momoese

Very true, but I think the least of two evils. I have no problem with capitalism, especially when it's not creating pollution but adding jobs. Win win!

Or we could do things like this. It created great wealth and jobs, for a while.
http://www.american.edu/TED/NAURU.htm

http://www.everyculture.com/images/ctc_03_img0762.jpg


I highly recommend renting the movie even if you have to watch it at a friends house. It's a very powerful non partisan look at just what happened to the electric car program and the cars themselves in California.

inkcube

some came from some guest lectures i gave last year and some from research that was done for a hort firm over several years. the CO2 levels at Mauna Loa should be fairly easy to find through Google.

harveyc

Gosh, I'm starting to feel guilty I've got a 1,000w light going on my indoor bananas right now. Maybe my little jungle will make up for it in the spring/summer. I can hope!

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harveyc

Hey, I'm not that isolated. I do have a TV and VCR and DVD player, I just don't watch TV programming and rarely watch the TV. I spend too much time looking at this monitor, I guess! I'll check, but I doubt my small town will have this movie.

Anyway, it did seem less hot for us last summer and has been colder than normal this fall so I just thought the article a friend shared with me was interesting.

That big gas-guzzling Suburban you saw me in last week only gets used for special trips like that (averaging 6,000 miles/year). It costs about $125 to fill that thing up!

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harveyc

Just a follow-up with another article along with the same views. While CO2 has gone up 4% since 1998, temperatures have not gone up worldwide. I can "feel" that with the weather we've had.

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ed...al_warming_go/

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mskitty38583

i know that when i moved to tn. almost 8 yrs ago we had snow in the winter. the last 3 yrs. we have only had a dusting.1/2 inch or less. this year we also had a drought, we were 28 inches low on rain. so something freaky is going on with the weather. all i know is i plant my nanas outside and they tell me i cant water cause of a water ban..my happy little nana, will be outside before the crack of dawn and ill be watering my nana trees. they can kiss my happy banana, if i have to go out and buy 1500 gallons of water just for a week of nana watering. my roses looked horrible, my peonies look bad even my red hot pokers look a little worse for wear. .

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WELCOME TO THE GATOR NATION

inkcube

thats because it is not being looked at world wide, some 3rd world countries don't give care, have no resources, or won't allow measurements to be taken. if temps are rising in the US and Australia (they have done more weather research than any one) then they are rising everywhere - the ice at both poles are shrinking. there has been some speculation that things are actually worse in some areas where industry is not monitored like it is in the US, EU, or Australia.

there are actually some studies coming out that show that hybrid cars (require more energy to manufacture), fluorescent bulbs (disposal issues due to mercury), and some other green options are actually worse than the gas-guzzlers and incandescents.

harveyc

I'd like to read more so it would be appreciated if you would include links to some references. Thanks.

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inkcube

i don't have any links to online info, most of what i have said have come from various scientific journals.

bigdog

According to NASA, Antarctic sea ice has been on the rise for many years. I also read another study recently that said that there is more ice in Antarctica right now than at any other time in recorded history.

http://www.nasa.gov/lb/vision/earth/...t/sea_ice.html

harveyc

I've read in various scientific reports that Anartica may be thawing in a portion but overall it is freezing more and that the ocean level there is dropping. I don't have a link off hand, though.

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