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Old 04-10-2014, 06:43 PM   #581 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Climate change hoax exposed?

lol ok Yug. Are you Batman too?

What peculiar aspect of climate science relating to global warming is it that you take issue with? I'm asking you about the theory and the Data here.
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Old 04-10-2014, 07:30 PM   #582 (permalink)
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Hiya Re: Climate change hoax exposed?

Like the other reviews suggested I added extra Italian seasoning, and instead of just a small tomato, I used a can of Italian style
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Old 05-19-2014, 10:05 AM   #583 (permalink)
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Default Re: Climate change hoax exposed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkthulhu View Post
Okay, we've established that you're educated, but you're still not acknowledging the science or the math. With that much experience in math one would think that you could just burn through all the data and see that the only massaging (or outright fabrication) of data is coming from the denier side of the argument....
Well, this is total BS. When you are so intentionally ignoring very incriminating E-mails from the U of East Anglia that were discussing altering the data to 'prove' and support their agenda, it is no wonder that no evidence what-so-ever would ever be accepted by you or by anyone else that is so close-minded.

For anyone with a more balanced view: (and more info to be dutifully ignored by the rest...)
Suppression of Alternate Data

This information was suppressed, not because it was incorrect, but because it "was harmful to the cause". I thought that science was the examination of facts in pursuit of truth, but apparently it has morphed into a 'cause' now, and anything that does not bring about furtherance of their 'cause' must be automatically discounted with no regard as to whether it may be true. (kinda sounds like some here...)

the-bullying-of-bengtsson-and-the-coming-climate-disruption-hypocalypse

(love the term "hypocalypse" )

(snippet)

Lennart Bengtsson being bullied by colleagues is only the latest example of bad behavior by climate scientists who have made a deal with the devil. They have exchanged their scientific souls for research grants, prestige, and easy access to scientific journals to publish their papers.
...
As I have always said, if you fund scientists to find evidence of something, they will be happy to find it for you. For over 20 years we have been funding them to find evidence of the human influence on climate. And they dutifully found it everywhere, hiding under every rock, glacier, ocean, and in every cloud, hurricane, tornado, raindrop, and snowflake.

So, just tell scientists 20% of their funds will be targeted for studying natural sources of climate change. They will find those, too.

(end snippet)


Now, see how this grabs you...
where-did-97-percent-global-warming-consensus-figure-come-from?

(snippet from article)

"A paper by five leading climatologists published in the journal Science and Education last year found that Cook’s study misrepresented the views of most consensus scientists."

The definition Cook used to get his consensus was weak, the climatologists said. Only 41 out of the 11,944 published climate studies examined by Cook explicitly stated that mankind caused most of the warming since 1950 — meaning the actual consensus is 0.3 percent.

“It is astonishing that any journal could have published a paper claiming a 97% climate consensus when on the authors’ own analysis the true consensus was well below 1%,”

(end snippet)

Pretty obvious now why the report by the 5 CLIMATOLOGISTS (capitalized in case someone says they are not climate scientists) was suppressed.

Now comes the character assassination of the authors, the discounting of the publishing sources, the claims of flawed data or flawed methodology yada yada yada...
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Old 05-19-2014, 12:16 PM   #584 (permalink)
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Default Re: Climate change hoax exposed?

The latest article to come to my attention:

Quote:
Parts of West Antarctic ice sheet starting to collapse, scientists find

Sea levels could eventually rise as much as 3 metres,

Read more: Parts of West Antarctic ice sheet starting to collapse, scientists find
I believe the above prediction was for by the end of the century.

There is no question that there has been a gradual warming in some far southern and northern areas. This has happened before and will go the other way again with time. The problem was when Former VP Al Gores tried to turn it into a political tool when he sought the presidency. This was all of course after he invented the internet. The climate is changing which is always true. What was wrong were the exaggerations and fabrication of "information" by the pro-global warming group. I think things will hold together for at least the next 30 years by which time I will be gone. I would be cautious about buying water front property that is real low.
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Old 05-20-2014, 08:36 AM   #585 (permalink)
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Default Re: Climate change hoax exposed?

Yug,

If you're going to link to a bunch of articles in your argument, you had best make sure that you pick websites/publications that are not so completely skewed toward denierism that we could take anything they print seriously.

The argument for or against the existence of Global Warming/Climate Change is over. You are debating against the existence of a fact at this point. You can't even really argue against the warming being anthropogenic either, as that is generally accepted across the board. Your articles are bunk, they are not peer-reviewed, it is all politically motivated propaganda to maintain the status-quo for those who make money off burning fossil fuels. What's sad is that they've got you so bamboozled that you'll go toe-to-toe with complete strangers in their defense and they didn't even have to pay you to do it.

You are the man who bursts into a bakery, gets up in the baker's face and says, "I don't believe yeast exists!" and then expects everybody to take your opinion as equal importance as reality.

Give it up, you're not actually doing any good for anybody, including yourself.
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Old 06-18-2014, 02:00 AM   #586 (permalink)
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Default Re: Climate change hoax exposed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkthulhu View Post
Yug,

If you're going to link to a bunch of articles in your argument, you had best make sure that you pick websites/publications that are not so completely skewed toward denierism that we could take anything they print seriously.
So when denier-ism = sanity, you choose differently? Not surprised.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkthulhu View Post
The argument for or against the existence of Global Warming/Climate Change is over.
Get that from your buddy algore? You remember him, eh? He's one of the guys that is getting rich off all this stuff - but you don't see him as an opportunist, you ignore all his mountains of cash, and further ignore all the carbon emissions put out by his flying around the globe to present this fraud, and ignore his humongus electric power usage at his huge house (funded by the rubes that buy into this, unpaid rubes, mind you) Nope, none of that matters, you see him as a prophet (more like profit...) and savior. It's all the OTHER guys that are doing this for $$$, not rich ole' algore. Nope, couldn't possibly be him. Are you aware that algore owns oil-producing property? (nope, that doesn't fit with the big-oil funding the denier-ism mantra, so we'll ignore that fact)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkthulhu View Post
Your articles are bunk, they are not peer-reviewed, it is all politically motivated propaganda to maintain the status-quo for those who make money off burning fossil fuels. What's sad is that they've got you so bamboozled that you'll go toe-to-toe with complete strangers in their defense and they didn't even have to pay you to do it.
Very convenient ploy to just ignore fact after fact after fact. "They aren't peer reviewed." You just toss that out there as if those 'peers' were some lofty presences on Mt. Olympus who are so far above all this that their 'esteemed' opinions are beyond question. Hey, buddy, get your head out of the clouds. Those peers you believe are so far above reproach are paid by someone, too. That is why they won't review squat that doesn't agree with their agenda. Doesn't sound so unbiased now, eh? The 'peers' that would review them are threatened with their govt grants being cut off unless they play ball. You remember the govt, eh? The govt has the already too powerful control freaks that stand to gain more power and $$ by controlling the trading of 'carbon credits'. They stand to gain, and they control the grant $$ - but of course you still seem them as the altruistic saviors looking out for 'the little guy'. Since when was that ever the case, especially coming from the liberal side, unless they could make some political points off of it? What I don't get is why you can't see the clear bias in the refusal to 'peer review' anything that doesn't go along with the AGW agenda, and the converse if it DOES fit the fraud. The bottom line being: if it agrees, it gets reviewed; if it doesn't agree, it isn't reviewed - and then can therefore be discounted since it lacks 'peer review'. Am I the only one that sees a problem with this?!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkthulhu View Post
You are the man who bursts into a bakery, gets up in the baker's face and says, "I don't believe yeast exists!"
You pull out as ridiculous an example as that and expect to make your case with it? Get real.
You are the guy walking around with the wool pulled over his eyes (trying to urge others to pull the wool over their own eyes, too) that runs into the wall of REALITY, because he had blind (hey, that's punny!) faith and trust in those that pulled the wool over his eyes, and didn't believe the wall was really there. You are so fanatic, you may even be one of those paid bloggers I've been reading about that actually make $$ spreading lies on behalf of the deep pocket guys (in this case, those like algore making tons of $$ off this scam).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkthulhu View Post
Give it up, you're not actually doing any good for anybody, including yourself.
So, in your opinion, leading people over a cliff on a fool's errand (shilling for your AGW gods, and ruining the U.S. while India and China won't play your game, and continue to pollute and gain strength in the world) is considered to be doing them good? You are a strange sad little man.

Last edited by Yug : 06-18-2014 at 03:04 AM.
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Old 06-18-2014, 02:32 AM   #587 (permalink)
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Default Re: Climate change hoax exposed?

Burt Rutan calls Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW) a Fraud
An engineering approach to the AGW debate By Burt Rutan

Burt_Rutan_calls_AGW_a_Fraud.htm

(a few snippits from article)

"One has only to look at the two most notable charts (below) from two United Nations IPCC summary reports, published a decade apart, to realize that something might be seriously wrong."

(see two very different graphs from article depicting temps for last 1000 years - produced by the same source)

"Noting that the “hockey stick” chart was removed in later editions of the IPCC “scientific” reports supports the conclusion that something is indeed wrong. It was removed because an outside investigation was conducted that resembled a proper engineering review - with a finding of fraud."

"Specifically, the fraud was identified by showing that the critical data for the chart came from cherry picking just a handful of Siberian trees (tree ring proxy to estimate temperature), without evidence that the researcher applied the proper scientific method. Using all the data or any random selection of 10% of the tree ring data showed no significant correlation of planet warming to human CO2 emissions.

(and here's my favorite part of the article!!)
"The fraud was not limited to the tree cherry picking. The computer code for presentation had been tweaked such that a hockey stick shape is produced even if the data set is developed with a random number generator!"

(end snippits)
That last part doesn't sound very scientific to me. Sounds pretty manipulated in order to get the result they wanted no matter what the facts were. But this bit of legerdemain will of course be ignored by some folks because it is likely not 'peer reviewed' by peers that stand to lose if they dare to review anything not in keeping with the agenda of their govt 'leash-holders'.


This global warming (AGW) business is fraud, not a hoax, as some have stated. See, a hoax suggests a prank, an effort to have fun at someone's expense. Fraud is much more serious, it implies criminal intent. Those involved in falsifying data, in intimidating those who disagree, and profiting from the fear they are creating, deserve more than just exposure, they need to be disgraced, shunned in the scientific community, and perhaps investigated for criminal fraud. Besides creating fear needlessly, empowering an already too powerful government, and harming those who will not be co-opted, they have brought science into disrepute.

Last edited by Yug : 06-18-2014 at 03:11 AM.
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Old 06-18-2014, 11:19 AM   #588 (permalink)
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Default Re: Climate change hoax exposed?

You pull out as ridiculous a website as IceAgeNow.com and expect to make your case with it? Get real.

Sorry, you're still wrong and all of your arguments against me and Anthropogenic Global Climate Change are more or less logical fallacies of argument. (Dragging out Al Gore again? Really? Guy hasn't even done anything for 5 years...)

Peer-reviewed means that it is a scientifically produced paper with research and testable findings that has been reviewed by peers of that scientific branch before publication. It's really not that hard. Think of it as a newspaper reporter asking a couple guys around the office if his new article is factual or not. (and your articles didn't)

But, as we've already discussed and pointed out. When your denial of fact is based on religious/political/economic-agenda dogma there is no amount of hard science that will ever make you change your mind. Your basis for denial is not based in fact or logic, so using those tools to convince you that you are wrong will do no good.

The argument is still over, those who are doing the research are moving on to fixing the problem instead of squabbling over its existence. No amount of "no it isn't!" with you, here, is ever going to change that. However, we live in a (mostly) free world. So if you want to believe the sky is orange and there are elves that steal your socks at night, go right ahead. I won't stop you.
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Old 06-18-2014, 12:13 PM   #589 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Climate change hoax exposed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkthulhu View Post
But, as we've already discussed and pointed out. When your denial of fact is based on religious/political/economic-agenda dogma there is no amount of hard science that will ever make you change your mind. Your basis for denial is not based in fact or logic, so using those tools to convince you that you are wrong will do no good.
This is the only true statement in your post. How long have you been a member of the Church of Global Warming? Even as the evidence mounts you still cling to your An Inconvenient Truth and listen to your All Gore.
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Old 06-18-2014, 01:25 PM   #590 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CountryBoy1981 View Post
This is the only true statement in your post. How long have you been a member of the Church of Global Warming? Even as the evidence mounts you still cling to your An Inconvenient Truth and listen to your All Gore.
Don't know what evidence you refer to. All the evidence on this planet in this reality supports my position.

Also, I don't got to church, I'm an atheist.
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:09 PM   #591 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CountryBoy1981 View Post
This is the only true statement in your post. How long have you been a member of the Church of Global Warming? Even as the evidence mounts you still cling to your An Inconvenient Truth and listen to your All Gore.
Yeah, that's pretty much my impression, too. He is totally steeped in the global warming AWG religion that nothing, no matter haw factual, will get through - unless of course it is 'peer reviewed', but nothing that refutes AGW will ever get 'peer reviewed', so it will never get through because it doesn't have a 'peer review', so nothing can refute AGW, etc., etc., etc. Just like Joeseph Heller's Catch-22.

The 'catch' in Catch-22 was that if you didn't want to fly any more bombing missions (WW II setting), you were sane since you didn't want to place yourself in danger by flying more missions. Since you were sane, however, you had to fly more missions (they were short on pilots, and needed the missions to be flown). If you wanted to fly more missions, you were totally bonkers, and as a result could be grounded. You weren't going to be grounded, though, unless you asked not to fly any more missions. The moment you asked to not fly any more missions, however, you were quite obviously sane, and therefore were now eligile to fly more missions. The bottom line was that it was impossible to not fly more missions. In his scenario, any refutation of AGW will not be considered valid without 'peer review', but 'peer review' will not be performed if the article refutes AGW. That is the catch; Catch-AGW.

Last edited by Yug : 06-18-2014 at 09:12 PM.
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:33 PM   #592 (permalink)
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Default Re: Climate change hoax exposed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkthulhu View Post
You pull out as ridiculous a website as IceAgeNow.com and expect to make your case with it? Get real.
So, anything you pull out is valid, and anything anyone else pulls out that refutes AGW is not valid?!? I know who need to get real, here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkthulhu View Post
Sorry, you're still wrong and all of your arguments against me and Anthropogenic Global Climate Change are more or less logical fallacies of argument. (Dragging out Al Gore again? Really? Guy hasn't even done anything for 5 years...)
"I'm right, and you are all wrong, and all your arguments are all wrong." (starting to sound like a whining kid, now. just making a blanket statement.)And, you brought up algore when you used his same argument "The argument for or against the existence of Global Warming/Climate Change is over." For the argument to be over, I'm still seeing more and more evidence based on FACTS, that refutes that claim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkthulhu View Post
Peer-reviewed means that it is a scientifically produced paper with research and testable findings that has been reviewed by peers of that scientific branch before publication. It's really not that hard. Think of it as a newspaper reporter asking a couple guys around the office if his new article is factual or not.
Talking down to me now? As if I had no idea what a 'peer review' was. Just who the *&%$#! do you think you are?!? We already talked to 'peer review' and how the process was made invalid when the govt is holding the leash of the 'peers' via grant/research $$ which ensures that the 'peers' will reach the outcome the govt desires. THAT politicizes the the issue, not anything I've said or done. When the science is tainted by politics, it becomes non-science (or nonsense, if you will), and any outcome reached after that juncture, MUST be considered tainted and invalidated, also. Was algore a scientist or a political figure? (we know the answer) Yet, it was algore that first started pushing this issue hard. That proves it was tainted and invalidated from the very outset!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkthulhu View Post
"your denial of fact is based on religious/political/economic-agenda dogma there is no amount of hard science that will ever make you change your mind. Your basis for denial is not based in fact or logic, so using those tools to convince you that you are wrong will do no good.
And, here is a statement that you made which my inescapable conclusion is that it totally applies to you... of course, you are no doubt a hard-core denier when it come to that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkthulhu View Post
...
So if you want to believe the sky is orange and there are elves that steal your socks at night, go right ahead. I won't stop you.
Another tactic right out of Alinsky's Rules for Radicals. Attempt to humiliate and ridicule. I've not used such nonsensical examples. If this is the best you have to shore up your platform, and expect to gain any converts, your position must be pretty weak.

Last edited by Yug : 06-18-2014 at 09:37 PM.
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Old 06-20-2014, 08:48 AM   #593 (permalink)
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Default Re: Climate change hoax exposed?

And yet, after all that dissection, you still have no scientific basis for your opinion.

Have a great weekend!
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Old 06-20-2014, 09:09 PM   #594 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Climate change hoax exposed?

Quote:
During the Senate hearing, Sessions noted that Obama said in 2012 that the “temperature around the globe is increasing faster than was predicted, even ten years ago,” The president then doubled down on the claim last year, saying “We also know that the climate is warming faster than anybody anticipated five or ten years ago.”

“So, I would ask each of our former Administrators if any of you agree that that’s an accurate statement on the climate. So if you do, raise your hand,” Sessions instructed.

His request was followed by silence and zero raised hands. The EPA administrators, who previously served in Republican administrations, were reportedly invited by Democrats to testify on the Obama administration’s energy policies.

“Thank you, the record will reflect no one raised their hand,” the GOP senator said.
Democrat-Invited Witnesses Refuse To Endorse Obama Climate Alarmism - YouTube

I find it amazing that this video isn't being displayed throughout the media. Oh wait, I forgot, you can't give the sheeple the truth.
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Old 06-24-2014, 09:34 AM   #595 (permalink)
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Default Re: Climate change hoax exposed?

"Please raise your hands if you think that scientific consensus can be nullified by a democratic vote of non-experts. . .

Let the record note that all GOP advisers raised their hands."
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Old 06-24-2014, 10:34 PM   #596 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkthulhu View Post
"Please raise your hands if you think that scientific consensus can be nullified by a democratic vote of non-experts. . .

Let the record note that all GOP advisers raised their hands."
Please raise your hand if you think that a 'scientific' concensus (funny, that word 'concensus' doesn't sound much like a scientific method, does it?) made up of 97% non-experts, actually carrys ANY weight what-so-ever. (except to fools, and grape kool-aid drinkers like funk...)
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Old 06-25-2014, 10:59 AM   #597 (permalink)
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Default Re: Climate change hoax exposed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yug View Post
Please raise your hand if you think that a 'scientific' concensus (funny, that word 'concensus' doesn't sound much like a scientific method, does it?) made up of 97% non-experts, actually carrys ANY weight what-so-ever. (except to fools, and grape kool-aid drinkers like funk...)
So, 97% of scientists that have published papers on the subject all think that global warming is real and caused by humans. You have said they are not experts in their field.

Therefore, by your definition is it impossible to find an expert on this planet.

Keep drinking that Flavor-Aid (they didn't drink Kool-Aid at Jonestown, but everybody thinks they did so it must be true...)
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Old 06-25-2014, 07:41 PM   #598 (permalink)
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Default Re: Climate change hoax exposed?

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Originally Posted by Funkthulhu View Post
So, 97% of scientists that have published papers on the subject all think that global warming is real and caused by humans. You have said they are not experts in their field.

Therefore, by your definition is it impossible to find an expert on this planet.

Keep drinking that Flavor-Aid (they didn't drink Kool-Aid at Jonestown, but everybody thinks they did so it must be true...)
Here you go manipulating words like your heros manipulated data...

I never referred to any published papers, I was referring to your concensus folks. If they are in the concensus, and are not experts, anything they publish is irrelevant. If they are 'experts' then they no doubt toe the political-agenda line (to keep that grant money they are dependent on), and give whatever result the politicians want - at the moment, that happens to be that AGW is man-made and the worst crisis the world has ever faced, and we need to jump on the bandwagon immediately or all is lost... Of course, this will cause prices to jump in many areas, especially in energy/fuel costs (except to those politically connected - like your hero algore), some products will be too expensive to make now (loss of jobs), and the U.S. will fall further and futher behind India China and Russia economically (because they won't play the game), etc., but we won't let that stand in the way of fleecing the U.S. taxpayers out of more and more $$$. Since the folks that may have published any papers on this issue totally dependent on the $$ from their govt benefactors, their fairness and impartiality are tainted and rendered invalid, and therefore so are their published papers. Any peer review is conducted by likewise-tainted 'colleagues' and is also rendered irrelevant. I could do this all day, but it will have no effect when there is a wall of ignorance shielding the 'intellect' (term used very loosely here) of the 'true believers' from the effects of being exposed to the truth (some folks just refuse to be reached).

Last edited by Yug : 06-25-2014 at 07:43 PM.
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Old 06-26-2014, 10:07 AM   #599 (permalink)
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Default Re: Climate change hoax exposed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yug View Post
Here you go manipulating words like your heros manipulated data...

I never referred to any published papers, I was referring to your concensus folks. If they are in the concensus, and are not experts, anything they publish is irrelevant. If they are 'experts' then they no doubt toe the political-agenda line (to keep that grant money they are dependent on), and give whatever result the politicians want - at the moment, that happens to be that AGW is man-made and the worst crisis the world has ever faced, and we need to jump on the bandwagon immediately or all is lost... Of course, this will cause prices to jump in many areas, especially in energy/fuel costs (except to those politically connected - like your hero algore), some products will be too expensive to make now (loss of jobs), and the U.S. will fall further and futher behind India China and Russia economically (because they won't play the game), etc., but we won't let that stand in the way of fleecing the U.S. taxpayers out of more and more $$$. Since the folks that may have published any papers on this issue totally dependent on the $$ from their govt benefactors, their fairness and impartiality are tainted and rendered invalid, and therefore so are their published papers. Any peer review is conducted by likewise-tainted 'colleagues' and is also rendered irrelevant. I could do this all day, but it will have no effect when there is a wall of ignorance shielding the 'intellect' (term used very loosely here) of the 'true believers' from the effects of being exposed to the truth (some folks just refuse to be reached).
So, non-experts are still non-experts, but the experts can't be trusted because you have money issues.

Of course, not killing ourselves is going to be too expensive short term so we should commit to death. Also, why should we stop destroying humanity if China and Russia aren't going to stop, too? I mean, if we're not the sole country to blame than it's not all our fault than a little bit of fault is okay to keep burning stuff.

Don't stop believin', man, and keep putting bricks up on your wall...
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Old 07-08-2014, 10:49 PM   #600 (permalink)
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Default Re: Climate change hoax exposed?

Here's another one for you to ignore...

NOAA-data-show-u-s-in-decade-long-cooling/

Here's a pretty good summation (also to be ignored by those long since brain-dead)

*snip*
Government Data Show U.S. in Decade-Long Cooling
The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s most accurate, up-to-date temperature data confirm the
United States has been cooling for at least the past decade. The NOAA temperature data are driving a stake
through the heart of alarmists claiming accelerating global warming.
*snip*

here's another good one...

*snip*
Expect global warming alarmists, now and for the foreseeable future,
to howl in desperation claiming the USCRN temperature data are
irrelevant.

Of course, to global warming alarmists, all real-world data are irrelevant.
*snip* (as in... never let facts get in the way)

According to the article, the data shows a 0.4 C drop in temp just in the last decade. This is more than half of the 'claimed' global warming of the entire 20th century. Sounds like it's time to invest in mink farming.

I'm sure that the land area of the United States, to include Alaska and Hawaii, is just a tiny little 'isolated area' to the 'climate-change/global-warming-mad' alarmists.

And here is yet another item to be ignored by the alarmists...


Global warming computer models confounded as Antarctic
sea ice hits new record high with 2.1million square miles more
than is usual for time of year

  • Ice is covering 16m sq km, more than 2.1m unusual for time of year
  • UN computer models say Antarctic ice should be in decline, not increasing

*snip*
It represents the latest stage in a trend that started ten years ago, and means
that an area the size of Greenland, which would normally be open water, is now
frozen.
The Antarctic surge is so big that overall, although Arctic ice has decreased, the
frozen area around both poles is one million square kilometres more than the
long-term average.
*snip*
Antarctic-sea-ice-hits-new-record-high

Of course, if anyone sends any more 'icebreakers' to Antarctica (to again get stuck in the ice ), this will be difficult to continue to ignore. I'm sure, though, that if they sail around enough they ought to be able to find at least one good vid showing some ice breaking off and making a big wave while falling into the ocean (completely ignoring any/all shots showing huge pile-ups of new ice that won't fit into the 'agenda')
(we'll just have to lump this Antarctica place in with the teeny isolated regions that just don't matter)

Last edited by Yug : 07-08-2014 at 11:25 PM.
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