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Abnshrek 11-24-2009 06:04 PM

Re: Climate chang hoax exposed?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffreyp (Post 111403)
I personally believe it's the sun that's causing global warming. Just as the ice caps on mars have been melting at an alarming rate in the past twenty years so they are on on earth? Why ? My guess is increased sun spot activity and solar flares.

I second this motion.. and the rest is fanfare.. :^) :waving:

Bch Grl 11-25-2009 12:44 AM

Re: Climate chang hoax exposed?
 
I think we are missing the point of the original post... this article is alleging E-mails were "discovered" and were exposed as covering up, destroying and suppressing the info that refutes "man made climate change"! According to these emails, there has been not only an international, but worldwide, concerted effort to convince all of us that the earth is warming, and that there has been destruction and condemnation of contrary scientific data.

If these allegations are true, we are being manipulated to a level that is beyond imagination!

A "consensus" of opinion is political, not scientific!

I don't really care to line the pockets of these 3rd world dictators with arbitrary taxes based on a hoax.

I'm all for recycling, alternate energy and caring for our environment, but not at the expense of our economy and way of life.

I don't see Al Gore downsizing his house and life style. He merely "buys credits" to maintain his standard of living (wastefulness) while we are supposed to make all the sacrifices.

Time will tell if these allegations are true or not. But if they are.....We are in for some big changes!

mjdsinsacto 11-25-2009 03:05 AM

Re: Climate chang hoax exposed?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bch Grl (Post 111627)
" ... this article is alleging E-mails were "discovered" and were exposed as covering up, destroying and suppressing the info that refutes "man made climate change"! According to these emails, there has been not only an international, but worldwide, concerted effort to convince all of us that the earth is warming, and that there has been destruction and condemnation of contrary scientific data.

"If these allegations are true, we are being manipulated to a level that is beyond imagination!

"A 'consensus' of opinion is political, not scientific! ...

" ...Time will tell if these allegations are true or not. But if they are.....We are in for some big changes!"

Is anyone talking/investigating/reporting on this scandal--CNN, ABC, etc.?

I saw it here first, not very much on broadcast news/opinion makers, etc.

Has any of the scientists or parties named come forward to comment/refute/deny the alleged conspiracy? I would think they'd be all over the news with this.

chong 11-25-2009 03:49 AM

Re: Climate chang hoax exposed?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mjdsinsacto (Post 111634)
Is anyone talking/investigating/reporting on this scandal--CNN, ABC, etc.?

I saw it here first, not very much on broadcast news/opinion makers, etc.

Only on Fox News (last couple of days) . . . . nothing on the Lame-stream Media.

sbl 11-25-2009 09:38 AM

Re: Climate chang hoax exposed?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chong (Post 111636)
Only on Fox News (last couple of days) . . . . nothing on the Lame-stream Media.

I don't believe anything that comes from Fox.

As for the sun causing the warming, scientist have been measuring all sorts of solar parameters for years--if that were the cause, there would be lots of data to support that theory.

Scientist have been looking into the effects of increasing CO2 for many years--it was a topic of discussion when I was working on my PhD in the early 90s. They have been looking into past climate data for even longer in ice cores and sediment cores and we know that changes in our orbit and the inclination of our axis which increase the amount of sunlight are a major factor in initiating the warm periods over the past half million yrs.

As for oil, there are some indications that we have reached the peak in oil production world wide--if that is true we are in for much higher oil and gas prices than we have already seen. If we do not start developing alternatives, the disruptions in our economy are going to be significant.

jeffreyp 12-02-2009 04:16 PM

Re: Climate chang hoax exposed?
 
Daily Express | UK News :: Climate change 'fraud'

jeffreyp 12-02-2009 04:22 PM

Re: Climate chang hoax exposed?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sbl (Post 111655)
I don't believe anything that comes from Fox.

As for the sun causing the warming, scientist have been measuring all sorts of solar parameters for years--if that were the cause, there would be lots of data to support that theory.

Scientist have been looking into the effects of increasing CO2 for many years--it was a topic of discussion when I was working on my PhD in the early 90s. They have been looking into past climate data for even longer in ice cores and sediment cores and we know that changes in our orbit and the inclination of our axis which increase the amount of sunlight are a major factor in initiating the warm periods over the past half million yrs.

As for oil, there are some indications that we have reached the peak in oil production world wide--if that is true we are in for much higher oil and gas prices than we have already seen. If we do not start developing alternatives, the disruptions in our economy are going to be significant.

SBL, take a look at:

Solar activity reaches new high - physicsworld.com
Solar Activity: A Dominant Factor in Climate Dynamics
The Sun and Sunspots
SPACE.com -- Sun's Activity Increased in Past Century, Study Confirms
Jennifer Marohasy: CO2 Record in Ice Cores Unreliable: A Note from Paul Williams

djmb74 12-02-2009 04:25 PM

Re: Climate chang hoax exposed?
 
Its started to gain some steam. I am sure there are a lot of people that are making money off of the man made global climate change fraud and they are doing all they can to suppress the real truth.

I agree about the problems with pollution and it needs to change but I am angry with people pushing agendas to rob those that do not have much already!

Another way to look at it is, yes there is a huge climate change going on but maybe the truth is there isn't anything we can do to change it and it has nothing to do with cows farting or fumes from my car. Maybe its easier politically to educate the sheep with the hope that we can change it then telling them hey the climates gonna change and we are screwed some of you out there need to learn how to swim!!!

island cassie 12-02-2009 05:33 PM

Re: Climate chang hoax exposed?
 
If all these government leaders had any intention of actually doing something useful - they would not fly around the world in big jets with their entourages - they would use video conferencing!! Says it all really!!!

harveyc 12-02-2009 06:18 PM

Re: Climate chang hoax exposed?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by island cassie (Post 112601)
If all these government leaders had any intention of actually doing something useful - they would not fly around the world in big jets with their entourages - they would use video conferencing!! Says it all really!!!

Isn't that the truth??!!

I've been thinking this for a few years since coming across a group discussion once where a professor working on chestnut research once wrote about an international ecology conference he was helping organize and invited our chestnut group to attend. I believe the meeting was in South America. Though I didn't really seriously consider going, I checked out the registration form and saw something like a $50 carbon fee, intended to offset the harm done to the environment by thoese traveling to the conference. There was no mention about how the $50 was going to be spent to mitigate the CO2 from jet fumes, etc., but seemed so obvious that the whole thing was about money. I wondered why they didn't just do a video conference. I realize there are some things you might need to go out into the field for, etc. but I don't think that's the type of conference that would require a physical presence.

Australian lawmakers rejected cap and trade legislation yesterday. They decided to wait until the U.S. goes first. Seems to be about politics. If they were really convinced it was the right thing to do, they wouldn't wait.

damaclese 12-02-2009 07:46 PM

Re: Climate chang hoax exposed?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by djmb74 (Post 112587)
Its started to gain some steam. I am sure there are a lot of people that are making money off of the man made global climate change fraud and they are doing all they can to suppress the real truth.

I agree about the problems with pollution and it needs to change but I am angry with people pushing agendas to rob those that do not have much already!

Another way to look at it is, yes there is a huge climate change going on but maybe the truth is there isn't anything we can do to change it and it has nothing to do with cows farting or fumes from my car. Maybe its easier politically to educate the sheep with the hope that we can change it then telling them hey the climates gonna change and we are screwed some of you out there need to learn how to swim!!!

i couldint have exspresed any of that better then you did thanks

jeffreyp 12-02-2009 10:11 PM

Re: Climate chang hoax exposed?
 
I remember all the hype about polar bears dieing but instead the polar bear population has increased! Glaciers have retreated in some parts of the world but increased in others!

sbl 12-02-2009 11:08 PM

Re: Climate chang hoax exposed?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by djmb74 (Post 112587)
Its started to gain some steam. I am sure there are a lot of people that are making money off of the man made global climate change fraud and they are doing all they can to suppress the real truth.

I agree about the problems with pollution and it needs to change but I am angry with people pushing agendas to rob those that do not have much already!

Another way to look at it is, yes there is a huge climate change going on but maybe the truth is there isn't anything we can do to change it and it has nothing to do with cows farting or fumes from my car. Maybe its easier politically to educate the sheep with the hope that we can change it then telling them hey the climates gonna change and we are screwed some of you out there need to learn how to swim!!!

When it come to people making money, it is hard to beat the oil companies and their influence--the real scary thing is we haven't seen anything yet--it is going to get a lot worse and probably soon.

sbl 12-02-2009 11:15 PM

Re: Climate chang hoax exposed?
 
Solar activity is not the same as incident solar energy. The solar sun spot cycle is much shorter than the period of warming we have seen. As I said there are many factors involved in the balance of energy we recieve and retain, some go up while others go down, it is the net result that matters in the long run.

Richard 12-03-2009 12:47 AM

Re: Climate chang hoax exposed?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by djmb74 (Post 112587)
Its started to gain some steam. I am sure there are a lot of people that are making money off of the man made global climate change fraud and they are doing all they can to suppress the real truth.

I'll take it that is your opinion, and otherwise you have no qualifications to claim what is fraud and what is truth in climatology.

jeffreyp 12-03-2009 06:29 AM

Re: Climate chang hoax exposed?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sbl (Post 112646)
Solar activity is not the same as incident solar energy. The solar sun spot cycle is much shorter than the period of warming we have seen. As I said there are many factors involved in the balance of energy we recieve and retain, some go up while others go down, it is the net result that matters in the long run.


SBL, I am not a climatologist, however I feel the jury is out on the root cause(s) of this issue, if there really is an issue at all. I have doubts on man made global warming though it is also my position that countries should make efforts to limit pollution or eliminate it in every form. Those who are of the opinion that man has caused global warming think that all of those who oppose that idea want companies/corporations to have unbridled and unrestrained license to pollute and I think that's just not true. For some this issue has become a very passionate issue and like a religion in the most pejorative sense. In the 70's there was the concern and hype over global cooling, now it's global warming and now we have scientists hiding or manipulating data that doesn't work toward their interests. Whenever I perceive hype or spin on any particular topic a road block goes up and puts doubts in my mind on whatever agenda is being purported. In all things, my advice to anyone on an important topic is study, research and know all of the facts, look at both sides of an arguement and don't just go with what people tell you.

djmb74 12-03-2009 09:09 AM

Re: Climate chang hoax exposed?
 
No really I have all the data somewhere around here...




Oh no wait we accidentally destroyed that data... sorry!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard (Post 112648)
I'll take it that is your opinion, and otherwise you have no qualifications to claim what is fraud and what is truth in climatology.


harveyc 12-03-2009 10:27 AM

Re: Climate chang hoax exposed?
 
Just go ahead and make up some data. NASA isn't very careful with theirs.

Hot Air Blog Archive Hottest October on record … was really a September

damaclese 12-03-2009 02:42 PM

Re: Climate chang hoax exposed?
 
if one wants to understand or even just have a glimpse in to what is going on you are going to have to read many different scientific papers many are posted on the net

the biggest problem as i see it to understanding climate is that it is a multi discipline research and there in lies the biggest hurtle as that for the most part scientist don't like to venture out side their particular discipline and or they just simply do not talk cross disciplines

if your really want to get a handle on how immensely complex a subject this is you must first study the begins of the universe then study the earths geological records together with zoology, fossil research, tectonics, Poler sciences, climate records, extinction theory, and paleontology as well as a few others all combine in my mind to form a pretty clear picture of what is going on not necessarily why! its going on nothing is currently happening that has not happened in the past.

it is my generally considered opinion that this warming cycle is a normally occurring period in between ice ages nothing more. why its warming all leave to much better minds than mine to figure out. but mark my words Lady's and Gentleman the earth is over all cooling and no mater how much you would like to point to Green house gasses as the cause this is like looking threw a microscope, in other words a myopic view of are plaints large 4.5 billion year giver or take a million years history. are earth goes thew cycles of warming and cooling. be grateful for this resent warming as the hole of human recorded history has occurred in the space of one warm period of weather between Ice ages.
if it were not for this 10,000 year period of extremal stable weather we would probably not be here now or certainly not as advanced as we are now.

the earth is not going to burn up in some catastrophic period of man mad green house gas run muck thats ridiculous. spending much of any time considering or panicking over the likely hood that thees things are even in are currant abilities to control is in my mind a form of hysteria. nun of us are going to be alive for many 1000s of years before the earths current climate changes to the point of threatening are civilization. it would be more likely that we will kill are selves off or that a massive pandemic would do more damage then the Green house affect will at least in the interim.

how ever don't think that i don't believe that we should not try to curb are out of control abuse of the environment and are continual wasting of the limited resources this plaint has to offer us no party goes on forever people!

I'm not a scientist just a man that likes to read frequently I'm not saying that any of the above is fact its just what iv extrapolated from the information iv gained I'm sure there are many that would disagree with me and thats there right but it has an air of truth in it and there are many that support thees ideas and there not all payed by the oil industry of the Coal research institute

heres a link to a show on history Chanel a basic introduction to earths geological history
How the Earth was Made - History.com
heres a link to a play list of short subjects on the origins of the universe vary popular nothing that indeepth but informative nun the less
The Universe Video - Videos of the Universe - History.com

I just thought even thou this is sum what off the subject i would throw this in to see if you all are really reading my post and maybe to get a rise out of some of the more scientifically bent ORG people LOL
Why the Big Bang is Wrong

to support the first link

No Big Bang : Contents

jeffreyp 12-04-2009 03:00 AM

Re: Climate chang hoax exposed?
 
© 2009 WorldNetDaily


White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs today brushed aside the concerns of more than 31,000 scientists who have signed a petition challenging the theory of man-made global warming.

WND White House corrrespondent Les Kinsolving brought up the petition as a follow-up to an earlier comment.

Gibbs had been asked by Fox News correspondent Major Garrett, "On climate change, why is it a good idea for the president to arrive near the beginning of the climate talk negotiations (scheduled by the United Nations in Copenhagen early in December) as opposed to the end, when the ultimate deal is going to be struck? And secondarily, does the White House have any evaluation or comment on this controversy of the hacked e-mails that suggest that some of the underlying science through some of the propositions put forward by climatologists may be in error or may have been altered in some way?"

Gibbs responded, "On the second part, I think Carol Browner addressed that last week, on the order of several thousand scientists have come to the conclusion that climate change is happening. I don't think that's anything that is, quite frankly, among – most people – in dispute anymore."

He continued, "In terms of when the president goes, obviously we believe that progress has been made with developing nations – the U.S. has made some progress with the Chinese and the Indians over the past couple of weeks. The president will travel to Oslo on the 10th, and believed it was important to use this visit to help get us to the point of a deal – something that can take the type of action that scientists say needs to be taken to stop and reverse climate change. I think the president believes that a visit happening at the beginning is just as important as it would be at any point to getting that deal going quicker."

Kinsolving then asked about the Petition Project, launched some 10 years ago when the first few thousand signatures were gathered. It now lists well over 31,000 scientists, including over 9,000 with doctorates, who subscribe to the following statement:

"There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth's atmosphere and disruption of the Earth's climate. Moreover, there is substantial scientific evidence that increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide produce many beneficial effects upon the natural plant and animal environments of the Earth."

"Are you aware of a list, the published list of 31,000 scientists who oppose this idea of global warming?" Kinsolving asked.

"I don't doubt that there's such a list, Lester. I think there's no real scientific basis for the dispute of this," Gibbs said.
Gibbs: 'No dispute' on global warming

Global Warming Petition Project




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