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Old 02-13-2014, 08:44 AM   #541 (permalink)
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Default Re: Climate change hoax exposed?

US oil glut - NYTimes - Feb 12, 2014

"Michael C. Jennings, chief executive of the HollyFrontier Corporation, said in an interview that he could support ending the oil export ban as long as other regulations that he said penalize the refiners, including federal mandates for the refining of expensive biofuels, were also reformed."

With U.S. Awash in Oil, Nat'l Interest Argument for Keystone Weakens | InsideClimate News - May 21, 2013

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Old 02-13-2014, 04:08 PM   #542 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Climate change hoax exposed?

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I'd like to reiterate on Funkthulhu's statement. You are missing the point of environmental regulations. And you seem to have an aversion to regulation in general. You do realize that without environmental regulations, the water you're drinking would poison you, the air you breathe would suffocate you, and the chemicals in your food would give you cancer? Do you want to see lack of environmental regulations looks like? Look no further than China.



Yes, that is a city you are looking at. But you can't see many of the buildings because of dense industrial smog. Maybe if China had passed something akin to the Clean Air Act things would be better, hm? I don't know about you, but I'd rather have a slightly smaller economy with some regulations than have my children turned autistic by lead and mercury in the air. Or have myself die of lung cancer at age 50 because of air pollution. I'd also not like to have industrial pollutants in my drinking water, thank you very much. Did you hear about what is happening in Russia at the Sochi Olympics right now? The water in the hotels looks like apple juice because it is contaminated. This, my friend, is what lack of proper regulation looks like:



And then there are plenty of examples of improper regulation in the United States. Like the lack of regulation of endocrine disrupting compounds, which are turning our male children effeminate and causing premature puberty in girls. Or the inadequate oversight of our good friends over at Freedom Industries, the party responsible for the chemical spill in West Virginia. And of course, the whole point of climate regulations is to try and mitigate things like the polar vortex, which is also responsible for my state's ongoing record-breaking drought. Not to mention the long-term effects we will see from anthropogenic climate change, and that we are already beginning to see. No, I think it's people like you who call for less regulations that are shooting themselves in the foot. Or even, dare I say it, shooting themselves in the head.
You have too much faith/love for the government. How do you ever make it out of your front door without asking the government's permission?
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Old 02-13-2014, 07:15 PM   #543 (permalink)
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Old 02-13-2014, 08:42 PM   #544 (permalink)
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You have too much faith/love for the government. How do you ever make it out of your front door without asking the government's permission?
No, I realize that environmental regulations are necessary. I don't understand why you feel the need to make a straw man argument and characterize everyone who realizes that as "government lovers." Besides, who else is going to protect us from these sorts of things? The industry? No, polluting is cheaper for them than making sure everything is clean. So if there are no regulations, they WILL pollute. This is exactly what is happening in countries like China, Mexico, and Indonesia right now. What do these countries all have in common? A lack of proper regulation, of course. Regulation is here to protect us, and I don't think you get that.

You seem to think that the free market is the solution to everything. Yes, the free market is a very efficient system (and probably the best we have right now), but it has really deep flaws of it. The problem of externalities such as pollution is probably one of those biggest problems. An externality is a good or bad (usually bad) side effect that arises from market transactions (i.e. a chemical plant that dumps their waste into a river may pollute the drinking water of a town downstream). And regulations are here to deal with that. The [relatively] clean and healthy environment of the United States that we all take for granted was brought to you by environmental regulations. I'm not sure why it's so difficult for you to wrap your head around that.
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Old 02-14-2014, 05:51 PM   #545 (permalink)
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You have too much faith/love for the government. How do you ever make it out of your front door without asking the government's permission?
Huzzah, baseless insults! It means you have no argument left, you've lost. Thanks for playing. . .
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Old 02-14-2014, 07:07 PM   #546 (permalink)
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Huzzah, baseless insults! It means you have no argument left, you've lost. Thanks for playing. . .
inb4 we get called socialists, communists, or Marxists.
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Old 02-14-2014, 07:13 PM   #547 (permalink)
 
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Huzzah, baseless insults! It means you have no argument left, you've lost. Thanks for playing. . .
Wait a couple years when you feel duped.
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Old 02-14-2014, 07:15 PM   #548 (permalink)
 
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inb4 we get called socialists, communists, or Marxists.
I hope y'all aren't taking offense to any of this; I am only intending to have a civil debate, not name calling.
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Old 02-15-2014, 05:49 AM   #549 (permalink)
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I hope y'all aren't taking offense to any of this; I am only intending to have a civil debate, not name calling.
No offense taken. And we'll see who will feel duped in a few years.
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Old 02-18-2014, 05:13 PM   #550 (permalink)
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Default Re: Climate change hoax exposed?

Well, that's that then. . .

Uh. . .

How 'bout them Olympics?
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Old 02-19-2014, 01:32 AM   #551 (permalink)
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Well, that's that then. . .

Uh. . .

How 'bout them Olympics?
In my closet-sized room, I don't have access to a TV so I haven't been up to date.
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Old 02-20-2014, 12:25 AM   #552 (permalink)
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Default Re: Climate change hoax exposed?

In the tropics, the winter temps have been way above normal pushing winter north and causing lots of calamity in northern latitudes. Consider that in February the midnight temperatures in the tropics have been in the high 80's. Let's hope the predicted summer temperatures of 110-120F in the tropics are not a reality. In that case the crops will rot and SE Asia will starve.
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Old 02-20-2014, 02:06 AM   #553 (permalink)
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In the tropics, the winter temps have been way above normal pushing winter north and causing lots of calamity in northern latitudes. Consider that in February the midnight temperatures in the tropics have been in the high 80's. Let's hope the predicted summer temperatures of 110-120F in the tropics are not a reality. In that case the crops will rot and SE Asia will starve.
Here's a useful metric, something climate scientists call "climate departure." It's the estimated year at which the lowest temperatures are greater than what the highest temperatures were previously. Some of these predicted departure years, especially for the tropics, are really scary.

Interactive Map Shows When Your Community Could Reach ‘Climate Departure’ | EcoWatch

On the flip side, climate and geological records from the deep past suggest that during the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum (as well as a few other events), a prolonged period of intense global warming tens of millions of years ago that led to an extinction event, tropical rainforests actually proliferated and expanded. But that's not to say the same will happen today. The PETM was most likely caused by a period of intense volcanic activity, and CO2 levels took tens of thousands of years to build up in the atmosphere as opposed to tens. So back then, the rainforests had ample time to evolve and adapt. This is not the case today, unfortunately. Either way, I wouldn't want to risk it. We need to start taking bold action, despite my potentially vain attempts to remain optimistic.
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Old 02-20-2014, 02:54 AM   #554 (permalink)
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Here's a useful metric, something climate scientists call "climate departure." It's the estimated year at which the lowest temperatures are greater than what the highest temperatures were previously...
Nice reference map, thanks. As an "old-Admiral", I find this stuff really scary.

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"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
~ Neil deGrasse Tyson
Although Tyson's quote should be tempered with science's view of "the ultraviolet catastrophe" prior to Plank's development of quantum theory, and theories about the propagation of light (not withstanding ancient Greek theory) prior to the Michelson–Morley experiment.
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Old 02-20-2014, 03:21 AM   #555 (permalink)
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Although Tyson's quote should be tempered with science's view of "the ultraviolet catastrophe" prior to Plank's development of quantum theory, and theories about the propagation of light (not withstanding ancient Greek theory) prior to the Michelson–Morley experiment.
Very true, very true (I do know a thing or two about quantum physics, but clearly you know a lot more about it than me, I get your point ). But I think the quote was more directed at people who say that the Earth is 6,000 years old and that last night's snowstorm proved that global warming isn't real.
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Old 03-05-2014, 06:11 AM   #556 (permalink)
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Default Re: Climate change hoax exposed?

Niagra Falls Freezes over Again! (Dang, that global warming stuff!!)



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Old 03-05-2014, 10:26 AM   #557 (permalink)
 
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It has to be a fake picture and it is warmer than normal because of global warming because we are told so by scientists.
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Old 03-05-2014, 10:54 AM   #558 (permalink)
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Looks very expensive! See this table?

The World's Largest Solar Plant Started Creating Electricity Today
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Old 03-05-2014, 11:08 AM   #559 (permalink)
 
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The question I have is if people don't care about the higher cists associated with it, then why isn't all of California getting its water from desalinization plants. There is no excuse for running out of water when there is a huge ocean next to you.
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Old 03-05-2014, 12:01 PM   #560 (permalink)
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It has to be a fake picture and it is warmer than normal because of global warming because we are told so by scientists.
Y'know, if I keep saying the following over and over enough times, maybe it will sink in. . .

Global Warming = increased AVERAGE temperature of the ENTIRE planet

Higher Average Temp = More Energy in the Atmosphere and Ocean

More Energy = Increased strength and variability of LOCAL weather events

Therefore Global Warming = Local Climate Change (Up or Down, often both in the same year)

I could go into the recent fluctuations in the Jetstream, the disturbance of the normal Polar Vortex or any number of other system changes, but I want to keep this simple.

"Global Warming is false because it is Cold Where I Live (or over there) Right Now" is a completely stupid and uneducated argument with no logical stability or scientific defensibility.
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