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Seeds for Quất, possibly the most attractive and hardy citrus…
…and the size makes them suitable as indoor plants. Okay, I am finally back from
Vietnam with loads of pictures. This time I was a “good boy” and did not bring back any plants. My great discovery on this trip was the Quất, a very attractive cultivar of the round kumquat family. Oh, I have noticed that showy little tree before. After all, you cannot miss it if you visit Vietnam during Tet, and I have done that twice before. But what is different this time, that I spotted this plant, which was only 15” high form soil level to top of the tip of the highest leaf and sported 15 fruit. Here are three other pics, not my own, but downloaded from the website, linked at the bottom of this post: Of course it was kept at that size by judicious pruning That sparked my curiosity and I did some i-net searches: The translation of quất ranges according to translate.google.com from kumquat to blueberry. This is what I have come up with by going with kumquat through German to French and back to German where the alternative translation to "die Kumquat" is "Zwergorange" which means in English 'dwarf orange' and that seemed to fit. That finally led me to the Latin Fortunella Japonica. But the pictures did not match. The leaves are too large and the fruit are spaced much too far apart. Finally I ended up with the cultivar Tắc, Hạnh, Quất, Rutaceae. Họ Cam Quýt Botanic name: Fortunella japonica (Thunberg) Swingle. Hereafter just “Quất” - reputedly the most hardy citrus fruit, “can withstand -10^C without suffering damage” - in Vietnam predominantly raised in (smallish) pots. - from what I can see here (confirmation is difficult, due to language problem), the fruits appear to stay on the trees for at least six weeks. Quất info: quất Tết - Těm với Google I have some seeds available, if you send me a PM with your address |
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Looks like Mandarinquat. :08:
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Not quite, Mandarinquat are oval like most quat I had been familiar with. The Fortunella Japonica are round, shaped like mandarins. In my first attempt to collect seeds I inadvertently also bought Mandarin oranges, as they look very similar. The skin of the Quất is smoother, shinier though, as I learned in due time. Their seeds are also shaped differently, and I managed to separate the mandarin seeds out from the first badge. But I set the remainder aside, although I am almost certain of their identity, and will only send them out with a caveat, if I happen to run out of the ones I am 100% sure of. |
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This is possibly the most cold hardy, edible citrus: Citsumaquat
 It has that kumquat as one of the parents along with Satsuma mandarin and Poncirus trifoliata. It has little fruits:  But lots of them.  And it survived -5F (briefly) in Oklahoma City. It got damage, but is now growing happily in Chattanooga, TN at my house. It has no trifoliate taste. It basically tastes just like a kumquat. It was breed by Don Moorehead in Oklahoma City. He has had many other citrus hybrids survive but the fruits always have had at least some trifoliate flavor until this one. |
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Fortunella japonica (Thunberg) Swingle. Tắc, Hạnh, Quất, Rutaceae. Họ Cam QuĂ˝t - a set on Flickr QUOTE They are much hardier than other citrus plants such as oranges. The 'Nagami' kumquat requires a hot summer, ranging from 25 °C to 38 °C (77 ° to 100 °F), but can withstand frost down to about −10 °C (14.0 °F) without injury. They grow in the tea hills of Hunan, China, where the climate is too cold for other citrus fruits, even the Mikan (also known as the Satsuma) orange. UNQUOTE You have to scroll down past the Vietnamese language portion, to get to the (presumably) same write-up in English |
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Species of Fortunella and some of the hybrids are definitely hardier than most Citrus species.
Many folks on this site grow oval or Nagami Kumquat (Fortunella margarita). It has a sweet tasting rind and sprite, tangy fruit. The fruit is typically eaten whole. Fruits are typically 1.25" to 1.5" long and about 0.75" wide. The rind is thick in comparison to the size of the fruit -- but it is also the main taste feature. The plants are smaller in stature than Citrus, so I grow all of mine on standard rootstock -- I see no reason for dwarfing rootstock even in a pot. The Hong Kong Kumquat (aka round kumquat or golden-bean kumquat) is Fortunella hindsii. The fruit size is about the same length or slightly smaller than F. margarita. The skin of the fruit is not as sweet as F. margarita, and the fruit is also less flavorful -- although not unpleasant. There are other interesting Fortunella species to discuss later, but for now I thought it worth mentioning these hybrids: Calamondin (aka Calamansi in the Philippines) is a natural and also human-replicated hybrid of Hong Kong Kumquat x Mandarin. The fruit size is about the same as Hong Kong Kumquat. The rind is thinner than most Fortunella and a little bit less sweet. The fruit is quite sour. It is a popular ingredient in foods of the eastern hemisphere. Mandarinquat is a hybrid of Nagami Kumquat and Mandarin. The fruits are round and larger than Nagami, about 1.5" to 1.75" in diameter. The rind is no thicker than Nagami but proportionally thinner because the fruit is larger. The rind is semi-sweet and the fruit flavor is tangy tangerine. Looking at Olafhenny's picture of the plant in the room with the New York - London - Tokyo clocks, the fruit size appears to be larger than Fortunella species and the rind is a bit uncharacteristic as well. So perhaps it is Nagami or Meiwa Kumquat x Mandarin -- or another Fortunella unknown to western culture for all to enjoy. |
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actually is. They are really just the size of small mandarins. Keep in mind, that the whole plant is only 15 inches high from soil level to the top of the highest leaf. Quote:
height to a pot of mums. It is also an important part of East Asian culture for ornamental plants. See the pictures in my original post, for quất in particular and, more generally, for many of plants for which I will still post pictures in other threads in the near future. |
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Poncirus trifoliata is often called Citrus trifoliata and is either a true citrus or a relative close enough to hybridize and to use as a root stock with true citrus. It is rated at zone 5 but the fruit is horrible tasting with bitter, pine-like oils. The Citsumaquat hybrid has taken brief exposure to -5F (-20.6C not -5C) and had also survived the previous very cold winter with little damage.
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The "Citrus Family" defined by the Linnean phenotype taxonomic system is "Rutaceae", which includes at least 177 unique Genera of plants (excluding synonyms) -- each of which often contains many species. Poncirus is one of those genera. The "Citrus Subtribe" defined by the modern genotype taxonomic system is "Citrinae", which includes 32 unique Genera (excluding synonyms). It is narrower in focus than the Linnean Rutaceae family. The species of each of these genera are what most people -- including plant biologists think of as "Citrus". Poncirus is one of the included genera. The "Citrus Genus" is defined in both the phenotype and genotype systems as "Citrus". The species of the Citrus genus include Citron (Citrus medica), Mandarin (Citrus reticulata), Pomelo (Citrus maxima) and their numerous natural hybrid species -- including oranges, grapefruit, etc. |
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Richard, you have finally forced me to admit, that the quat are even larger than the largest
cherries I have ever eaten. Tony, to the first article you have linked, the number of seeds in the Quất is very varied. I have encountered fruit with a seed or two in every segment, but more often the whole fruit without any seed at all. I would say they averaged about 3 to 4 seeds/fruit. To your second article, the sweetness of the Quất rivals that of the sweetness of any citrus fruit, I have ever sampled. I do have to add the caveat, though, that I only started eating them late in the fruiting season, when they were fully ripened. |
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Look, Richard, this is what it is: Botanic name: Fortunella japonica (Thunberg) Swingle.
It is small both in tree size and in fruit size, and it is as sweet and as flavourful as any citrus fruit, I have ever tasted. But that is not its main attraction for me. It is the beauty of the tree in full fruit as well as the fact, that it can fit into any apartment, even a small one and the fruit appears to last at least six weeks in full orange display. |
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I've seen Poncirus trifoliata listed as Citrus trifoliata and from what I've seen, it seems to go back and forth every few years.
Trifoliate orange - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia |
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Since this is my very first foray into growing any citrus, I have no clue how many years it
takes the average citrus from seed to fruit. I am trying to space out my seeds, so I have a couple of them for each year until I can harvest my own, and I would appreciate any estimate from experienced growers. I have taken this picture in the garden of the Museum of Ethnicity in Hanoi. This fellow is obviously setting on bloom for the first time, since he has no fruit in evidence. Those spoil sports at the museum would not let me cut it down, so I could determine its age by counting the year rings :) This is a blow up of a section of the above photo, to show the ID tag. |
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The key is developing a root mass capable of nurturing fruits through to maturity. Also, the above ground structure needs to be robust enough to physically support the fruit. In breeding programs for small citrus, the typical cycle time is 7 years which includes the fruit maturation period (bud set to ripe fruit). Under ideal conditions you can grow Fortunella species from seed and harvest a dozen fruits in just under 5 years.
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I've heard that Poncirus trifoliata can form fruits in 4 years from seed and that some Grapefruits can take 12 years to fruit. I have some Poncirus trifoliata 'Flying Dragon' that did not fruit (or bloom) after maybe 6 years. I dug them up and then decided not to replant them so who knows when they would have formed fruit.
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Tony (sunfish) makes the excellent point that Flying Dragon is almost exclusively cultivated as a root stock. Certainly if I had Flying Dragon seedlings I'd graft them over with something like Sweet Lemon or something else that benefits from a non-aggressive root stock. In breeding programs, grapefruit and other large citrus have a 10 year cycle: this is from budset on the host plant to an offspring that is mature enough to produce regular crops and demonstrate the characteristics of interest in the breeding program. |
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Before the development of Flying Dragon, regular P. trifoliata was used as a dwarfing rootstock.
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A couple more pictures of the Fortunella japonica (Thunberg) Swingle
This is the tallest and probably oldest potted Quất, I have seen. It is about 6' from soil to top. Actually I have not seen any, which were not potted :) Back down in the south, I saw one with the old fruit finally gone and new fruit developing. Well, we are talking Saigon here and the city air is not the cleanest :( |
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So in the photo with the motorcycles, the size of the fruits range from an inch to 1.25 inches?
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Yes, Richard, that is about right. The largest ones may reach about 1 1/2 in dia.
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-Luke |
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I have a friend who told me she had this ornamental orange with insipid tasting fruit. So I took a look at it and it looks to me like the Flying Dragon root stock took over and it is a Flying Dragon tree now, full of long thorns, trifoliate leaves and lots of ugly looking fruit. and yes I tried them they taste pretty bad but you might be able to make a orange aid from them??
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Well, these ornamental Quất are pretty tasty, that is how I managed to "harvest" over 200 seeds, while getting only an average of about three seeds/fruit. :) |
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After 7 weeks finally some signs of life
Well, the ‘signs of life’ occurred about 5 or 6 days earlier, but I wanted to make sure, that I was not fooled again. I am still puzzled, how out of this convoluted mess a respectable citrus tree can emerge. That is one out of the four, which I had soaked on March 15 and planted on March 16 in peat moss pots. Later, following advice, I transferred 2 of them into plastic bags with some moist peat moss. Since I had to handle these bags for inspection (the peat moss caked around the seeds and made it difficult to find them), the seeds tumbled around a lot. Since it occurred to me, that this could not be good, I transferred the two survivors once again into little pots, covered them only very lightly with peat moss and the whole thing with Saran Wrap, thus hopefully providing the same humid environment as in a plastic bag. That is also the method I am now using on the 5 (out of 6) survivors of the next badge. The high mortality rate is mostly attributable to clumsy handling and inexperience on my part. :( |
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Well, there is some order in that chaos after all. :) It comes now much closer to my image of
a viable sprout. As wee as this little citrus is (see penny), it was butting up against the saran wrap already. So I removed the wrap for a somewhat less humid environment. This is so far the only one of the first four seeds. Two were victims of my clumsiness. Once they come close to sprouting these seeds are extremely tender. That is another reason, why I would not use the plastic bag method again. The handling is just too rough on the tender seeds in the pre-sprouting phase. |
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I just came across this thread. If I understand it correctly, you imported citrus seeds into the USA from Vietnam and that is prohibited. I'm not going to take the time to search the APHIS information now because I've done it before and know it to be the case. In addition, there is more than a slight chance that you could have imported seeds that were carrying HLB disease. I suggest that you destroy them and ask anybody you have shared them with to do the same. This is serious and USDA officials will certainly come visit you if they get wind of this. I know someone who once imported palm seeds without a permit and the USDA officials that paid him a surprise visit was a scary experience for him.
EDIT: I just saw you're located in Canada so USDA definitely won't come visit you and I don't know what the Canadian regulations are in regards to importation of citrus seeds. There certainly isn't a citrus industry they're trying to protect. I just hope you didn't send any seeds into the USA. |
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My aunt from Pennsylvania (who is Vietnamese) grows the Quat in a pot. It's been growing now for at least 10 years. She brings it outside during the summer and indoors in the winter. It's nowhere as big as the potted Quat that was posted on this thread.
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In regards to Harvey's post, he is correct about importation of seeds. See link below. There are a lot of countries listed and Vietnam is one of them.
Federal Register, Volume 75 Issue 65 (Tuesday, April 6, 2010) |
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about 6 months, all including the Tet season, when the Quất are the most prominent. One of the advantages is that it is so small, that you can do, what your aunt is doing and still have the full display of fruit in a very small plant, which still fits into any home, even when it is quite a few years old. BTW, if you are interested in the plant yourself, you might want to ask Harveyc if it would be okay if your aunt let you have some seeds from a tree, which has been in the States for more that 10 years. |
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Unfortunately, no citrus are allowed into California without going through quarantine (after having an import permit). If there is sufficient demand for it, you might contact UC Riverside to see if they would be interested in importing a scion from PA. They typically clean up other diseases (not HLB) by propagating from very young tip growth where the diseases have not yet had time to develop yet. I'm somewhat surprised this hasn't been imported already as they have quite a few: UCR: Citrus Variety Collection
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The "Marumi" kumquat is Fortunella japonica and widely available at California nurseries with large citrus collections, or even online from Four Winds Growers.
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Hawaii has considerable plant protection regulations as well. |
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Okay, it appears that the concerns of Harveyc about seed imports have killed this thread.
But at least as far as Canada is concerned, it appears to have just been in suspended animation. I have made extensive efforts to ferret out what the regulations are in Canada. contacting Agriculture Canada, Canadian Food Inspection Agency and anybody else I could think of. That just yielded regulations for importing seeds in quantities of 500grams (17˝ oz) and more. Direct enquiries about lesser amounts were left unanswered. Finally I ran into this: Shipping Seeds to Canada & Import Regulations of Seed | Gardening on Cloud 9 Excerpt (QUOTE): Exemptions from the Importation Requirements Here is the good news for gardeners in Canada who are importing seeds merely for seed exchange or small purchase orders – There are exemptions from the importation requirements just mentioned. Neither the import declaration information nor the certificate of analysis need be supplied for the following seed importations. • Where the imported seed lot is 5 kg or less for large seeded crop kinds such as peas, wheat, soybeans and corn or is 500 g or less for small seeded crop kinds such as alfalfa, tomato or canola. See here for clarification of importations with multiple small seed lots. In order to determine whether the species is “large seeded” or small seeded, please refer to Approximate number of seeds per gram in The 2009 ABCs of Seed Importation into Canada. If the species is listed as having 199 seeds or less per gram, it is considered large seeded. If the species is listed as having 200 seeds or more per gram, it is considered small seeded. • For lots of herb seed that are 5 kg or less, or for flower seed, tree or shrub seed, true potato seed, ginseng, seeds of aquatic plants or onion/garlic multiplier sets…. UNQUOTE In other words: The import small amount of cultivated seeds is free. In Canada, this is the law! In the US it is more restrictive and the regulations can be found here: Shipping Seeds to US – Small Lots of Seed Permit | Gardening on Cloud 9 Americans have to sort this out for themselves :) Best, Olaf PS: I am hoping to receive some more seeds from Vietnam sometime in early March. Past experience and later verification has taught me, that the viability of these seeds is very time- limited after "harvest". So anybody, who would want some of these seed should let me know by PM during the first days of March, because I will be in India until March first. If Americans want to comply with their government's regulations, they may want to look into getting their permit in the meantime. |
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Hi all,
I had asked various people, who might want quat seeds in early March/14 to send me their street address by PM before Christmas. So far I have received only one. Christmas is less than two days away. It is perfectly legal to import small amounts (250g small and 500g large) of seeds to Canada. In the US you are on your own in figuring out the law. Best, Olaf |
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