chong

As to the advertising by Logee's that this plant is "dwarf", the form that they are selling is presumably the dwarf form. As I stated earlier, Ambarella had a dwarf and a tree form. The dwarf form can bloom in nine months from transplanting at 12 inches high, while the tree form blooms at least 24 months and at least 7 to 8 feet high.

The photo of a Dwarf Ambarella in my earlier post attest to the height at which it will begin to fruit. So, Logee's ad is not a come on, at least from the standpoint of size.

I am somewhat intrigued by this plant as to how there could be a dwarf and a tall form of the same fruit. And I can talk about my theories about how this can be, but it's better if I can have more information to back them up.

Richard

Chong, you are supplying very useful information! I have always heard Ambarella described as a small (2-3 meter) tropical tree that perishes under 10 Celsius. Apparently what I know as Ambarella is more commonly called Dwarf Ambarella. The Univ. of Melbourne plant name site is some help with this:

Spondias axillaris - ENGLISH: Himalayan ambarella
Spondias dulcis - ENGLISH: Dwarf ambarella, ...
Spondias mombin - ENGLISH: Ambarella (as S. lutea), ..., True Ambarella, ...

For more details, see: Sorting Spondias names

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chong

It can become very complicated, couldn't it. The reference list just gave me additional information on my theory on how the Ambarella could have a dwarf and a tall form. I think that if you can classify Spondias into two sub species, I have a strong inclination to put them into S. Mombin and S. Dulcis (Cytherea).

I did not want to bring the following subject up earlier because, as I said, I needed more back-up info. Some Filipino farmers that grow Dwarf Ambarella, call them "Malaysian Siniguelas". Siniguelas is the Filipino name for S. Mombin, where there are the red and yellow varieties of the fruit. Other farmers call the Dwarf Ambarella as a cross between a mango and siniguelas, thus coining the name "Manguelas".

In your attached reference, they refer to a S. purpurea. That is the red form of Spondias Mombin. It just a variation of the Mombin, just as mango will have green, yellow, red, purple, or a combination of these. I could not ferret the scientific name of the yellow form from the list, but as I said, they are both from S. Mombin classification.

If you compare the fruits of the dwarf and tall Ambarellas in the Philippines, they are very similar in shape, size, and seed shape. They may vary in taste somewhat, but they closer to each other in taste than that of the Mombin. Ambarella has a fruit structure closer to the mango. The shape is like a plum, the flesh is somewhat fibrous and a texture like low fiber mango or peach, and the seed has bumps and spiny and probably 35% of the fruit. The skin is much like an unripe mango, but much, much thinner.

The Mombin fruit shape is like a short cylinder with rounded ends, about 1-inch long, with a seed with fibers around a very thin shell, and is probably 60% of the fruit. The flesh texture is similar to a half ripe plum, and the skin is very thin. Thinner than the Ambarella.

Person123

I've heard people say that Emperor dwarf lychee can be grown indoors.
Like Jene's Tropicals here
I'm really interested in growing lychee or longan or rambutan or any other lychee relatives indoors.

damaclese

thanks to all of your its fasanating to read your coment even thoug i rarley understand the true nature of what you are discusing but mabe with time

Dean W.

I can hardly understand some of what they talk about either, damaclese. Some of the plants there talking about I have no experience with.

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Richard

Jene's is an excellent source for plants. However, note that they recommend lychee for container growing -- this does not mean indoors year-round, only for over-wintering.

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Person123

I would be able to put it outside when it is warm.
How big of a pot will I need? and will I have to hand pollinate?
Will longan also work in pots?

Thanks!

Richard

A 25 gallon pot would require careful attention, a 40-gallon pot would be better. These fruits are self-fertile. You can read more about them here: CRFG Fruit Facts, although the information on some cultivars is out of date.

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chong

I just found the photo I have of the Dwarf Ambarella (Spondias Cytherea or S. Dulcis). The appearance of the seed, if you notice, is similar to a mango's, after you eat the pulp, except for the shape and size. The flesh of the ripe fruit is light yellow to yellow, just like the mango.

Person123

Has anyone done Indian or regular jujube in a pot...

Richard

I cared for several at a nursery for about a year, each in 15 to 25 gallon pots. They have been there for some time, and are still there.

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lorax

Your Chirimoya may not have bloomed or fruited if it didn't get a cold period... They don't like snow on their feet but they do like to see it at a distance. If they're consistently warm, they'll gradually go dormant. Your other factor might have been altitude, although I'm not sure exactly where you are and how high up it is. I have friends at sea level who were able to get Chirimoyas to sprout and grow into trees, but not to fruit or flower; when they moved the trees into the mountains they immediately started blooming.

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chong

Didn't get a cold period in Seattle, WA? Surely, you jest. It was in a greenhouse, but the only heat it got is from the house because the greenhouse is part of the house, separated by a 10-ft sliding door and a wall with a window.

By the way, what temperature is cold? I'm a member of the Rare Fruit Growers Society of the Philippines, where many post pictures of Cherimoya, Atemoya, Anon, etc., in their website, yet 95% of the Philippines do not experience periods below 68°F(20°C). Heating design temperature for Seattle WA is 23°F(-5°C). I would say the average temperature in the greenhouse at the time my Cherimoya was there was 40°F(4.4°C). But could get colder.

Richard

In the Cherimoya farms of Columbia, the temperatures do not dip below 50 F (10 C). Each tree produces a few hundred blooms and they hand-pollinate extensively with a pollen-puffer device.

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lorax

I'd say about +10 C is cold. They're frost-tender. Are you sure that it's Chirimoyas and not Atemoyas or other Annonas in the Philipines? I have experimented widely with them here in Ecuador and our cultivars go dormant after about 5 years if they don't get the cool period....

Conversely, the cold seems to make Guayabanas go dormant.

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chong

I'm sure it was Cherimoya. My friend from Panama gave me the seeds. It was his wife's favorite fruit.

Richard

The Cherimoyas grown in Fallbrook CA do fine with winter night-time temperatures of 1 C or 2 C.

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stumpy4700