Palm Seed Question...

JoeS475 · 09-30-2007, 12:50 AM

Gonna really sound like a novice here..

I just got back from Florida. While there I picked up a few fresh seeds or fruits from under palm trees. There were some small white ones from a kind of tall fan palm. I found several red ones from a Christmas Palm about 200 feet from the Southernmost Point marker in Key West, and some smallish orange ones from under a tree that looked similar to a coconut palm.

What do I do with them?

Do I just put them in damp soil and pray? Do they need to be dried first? Will they even be viable? I've never tried germinating seeds before, so I have no clue what to do.

Any and all suggestions wil be appreciated!

~Joe

BGreen · 09-30-2007, 05:17 AM

Here is a website that may help.
palm seed germination That is a link to the information below

Quote:

A Practical Guide to Germinating Palm Seeds
Reprinted with permission from the April 1999 issue of Palms (formerly Principes), Journal of the International Palm Society

© 1999 The International Palm Society, all rights reserved
JEFF MARCUS
Floribunda Palms and Exotics, P.O. Box 635, Mountain View, HI 96771 USA
KEN BANKS
PO. Box 555, Pahoa, HI 96 778 USA
With most palms, propagation from seed is not difficult as long as a few basic requirements are met. Among the most important are fresh seed, good sanitation, proper medium, proper hydration, and adequate heat. Each of these points will be discussed separately, although they are inter-related.
Fresh Seed
The fresher the seeds are, the better the results will be (see Back Cover). To check the freshness of your seeds, cut open a sample seed and inspect the endosperm and embryo. The embryo should be fresh, firm, and not discolored. If the interior of the seed is rotten or has an unpleasant odor, it is unlikely to germinate. The endosperm is of two types, homogeneous or ruminate, and may be hard, oily, or even hollow. If the inside of a homogeneous seed is off-color, such as brown or gray, or if it smells bad, the seed is old or was harvested before maturity. Such seeds are also unlikely to germinate. In a ruminate seed, the seed coat is infolded, creating dark, tangled streaks in the endosperm. Ruminate seed is more difficult to assess because of its more complex appearance.

Removing the Fruit Pulp
The fleshy or fibrous fruit pulp frequently contains growth inhibitors. Removing it before planting will improve results. Methods for doing this vary with the quantity and type of seeds, but most begin with a preliminary 48-72-hour soak in water. Soaking causes the pulp to ferment, which weakens it for easier removal. Change the water daily during the soak. Fruit that is slightly immature should be placed in a tightly closed plastic bag and kept in a warm spot for a week or so. This promotes ripening and softens the outer flesh for cleaning. Sometimes the seeds need to be soaked further to soften the pulp, sometimes not.

There are several ways to remove the seed coat. With small quantities of seeds, simply rub them by hand against a fine-meshed screen and wash away the pulp with water. Another way that works well with small amounts of seed is to shake them by hand in a closed container with water and small, rough-edged rocks. Pour off the water and pulp occasionally, add more water and shake again, until the seeds are completely clean. Seeds can also be cleaned with a knife or other sharp tool, but this is slow and a little dangerous.

Motorized cleaning devices make the job easier and are a necessity for commercial operations. For smaller quantities, use a rock tumbler. Put rocks and water inside with the seeds. Larger seed-cleaning machines can be purchased or fabricated. Some large-scale growers and seed dealers use cement mixers to do the job. The seeds are rotated in the drum for 10-45 minutes with water and rough-edged rocks of 7-10 cm. The time will vary with the machine and the type of seed and rocks. Some seeds are brittle, and without proper care may be damaged by power cleaning. Among large-seeded palms, Actinorhytis is particularly brittle and prone to damage, and many smaller seeds, such as Pinanga, must also be handled with care. When cleaning seeds, remember that the flesh of some types contain crystals of calcium oxalate, a skin irritant that can cause severe pain on contact, depending on the individual's sensitivity. For this reason, Ptychosperma, Arenga, Caryota, and Wallichia should be handled with care.

Fig 1. Right, a seedling of Phoenicophorium borsigianum showing adjacent germination. Left, Phoenix sp. showing remote germination. (Illustration by Marion Ruff Sheehan from Genera Palmarum, A classification of palms based on the work of Harold E. Moore Jr.)
Sanitation
Damaging insects such as seed-boring beetles may arrive with seeds. They may reduce germination and spread to other seed batches. To minimize these risks, seeds collected from the ground, whether in the wild or from cultivated plants, and seeds collected under unknown conditions should be soaked in a contact insecticide solution once the fruit pulp has been removed. The insecticide solution should be prepared at the same concentration you would use to spray for pests. Soak small, thinner-shelled seed, such as Pinanga, for 15 minutes. Soak larger, harder and less permeable seeds longer, from 20 to 45 minutes. Examples of these latter seeds are Mauritia flexuosa, Bismarckia nobilis, Parajubaea cocoides, and Jubaea child. After the insecticide soak, rinse the seeds in clean water for 20 minutes.

After cleaning the seeds, hydrate them by soaking them in water for 24 hours, especially if you did not soak them to help remove the pulp. Within 24 hours most fresh, viable seeds will sink. There are exceptions such as Manicaria saccifera and Metroxylon vitiense, whose viable seed will float even after cleaning and soaking.

Whether or not to discard a batch of heavily infested, damaged seeds depends on their rarity and your ability to get more. For very rare seeds, when even a single germination could be valuable, plant it. Remember, however, with heavily infested seeds, especially in large quantities, there is the danger of introducing pests into your nursery. Balance this risk against the desirability of propagating the seeds and follow the treatment procedures described above.

Fungi flourish in the heat and humidity necessary for good germination, so equipment, fixtures, seeds and growing medium must be kept clean to prevent damping-off and other disease problems. You may want to soak seed in a fungicide before planting.

Planting Medium
Germinate the easy varieties in a commercial mix of peat moss or sterile sphagnum moss mixed with an equal amount of perlite or vermiculite. You may also use commercially prepared, finely cut coconut coir to which the same fast-draining material has been added. Sand, wood chips, screened rock or volcanic cinder screened to a maximum size of 9 mm can substitute for vermiculite or perlite. Whatever you use, the medium should be very porous and drain extremely well. All containers should have plenty of holes in the bottom to ensure quick and thorough drainage.

When containers and planting medium are ready, lay out the seeds on the surface, and before covering them, dust with a commercial insecticide. Bury the seeds in the medium to a depth of half the seed diameter and then cover everything with finely screened cinder (3-6 mm particle size), thick enough so it will not wash away during watering. This top-dressing dries out quickly and discourages the moss that grows on peat. Sand or finely crushed rock would work just as well. When planting is complete, place the containers on clean benches, 60-90 cm above the ground. Be sure to label your containers with a waterproof and fade-proof marker.

Palm seeds known as remote germinators may require special treatment and a little extra patience. Remote germinators push a shoot downwards as much as 20-25 cm before sending up the first leaf (Fig. 1). The larger ones such as Voanioala and Borassodendron, should be planted in deep containers such as citrus bags or large tubs, or be transferred to such containers soon after germination. If seeds and seedlings can be protected, the collector may want to plant large remote-germinators directly in the ground.

Easy Germinators
Dypsis decaryi
Pinanga kuhlii
Pinanga crassipes
Archontophoenix alexandrae
Chamaedorea elegans
Chambeyronia macrocarpa
Licuala grandis
Veitchia joannis
Washingtonia filifera

Difficult Germinators
Basselinia species
Parajubaea cocoides
Neoveitchia storckii
Jubaeopsis caffra
Jubaea chilensis
Lavoixia macrocarpa
Physokentia insolita
Pseudophoenix species
Rhopalostylis baueri
Howea fosteriana
Voanioala gerardii

Hydration and Heat
At this point, the most important factor in seed germination is proper hydration, followed by constant high heat. Maintaining proper hydration is the trickiest of the two. Water your containers thoroughly, but just as important, let them dry out thoroughly before watering again. Over-hydration can drastically reduce the germination percentage. Once seeds begin to germinate, the containers will require more frequent watering. Seeds should be kept at 26-35'C. Some growers provide constant bottom heat by means of electric pads on their benches.

Difficult-to-Germinate Seeds
For difficult seeds and rare seeds, the most reliable method of germination is the Plastic Bag Method. For this method, seeds are blanketed in damp sphagnum moss and germinated in zipper-type, re-sealable plastic bags. Thoroughly saturate the sphagnum moss with water and wring it until no more can be expressed. Place the seeds and the sphagnum moss inside the plastic bags (along with a label) and keep the bags at 26-35'C (Fig. 2, top). Check inside the bags periodically to ensure that the sphagnum has not dried out. Once seeds have germinated (Fig. 3, bottom), place them in community or individual pots containing the potting mix described above and the quick-drying top-dressing. When transferring germinating seeds from the relatively sanitary conditions inside the bags to pots containing ordinary medium, treat them to a precautionary fungicide drench. Germination setups can also be improvised from plastic foam boxes with tight fitting lids, such as are used to pack fish or fruit. Fill the boxes '/3 full of fine perlite pieces and lay the seeds on top. Use a hand mister to dampen thoroughly the seeds and perlite, replace the lid and place the box in a warm location. These germination boxes are space-savers, because they can be stacked. The tight-fitting lids help keep out fungus and insects, but the boxes should be checked periodically for hydration and germination.

A final method (if it can be called a method) is simply to germinate the seed on the ground in an out-of-the-way part of the greenhouse or garden. Growers have had good results this way with Pelagodoxa henryana, Jubaea chilensis, and some Acrocomia species. Discarded seed has also been found germinating in many a surprised grower's compost pile.

Good luck with them and let us know how they do!

Randy4ut · 09-30-2007, 06:01 AM

Yeah, Good luck, Joe...
Be sure to keep us updated with their progress... Hey, Ben, great link!!!
Randy

jnstropic · 09-30-2007, 09:04 AM

When dealing with tropical seeds, usually it is best to germinate them as soon as you can because many have a short viability span. Some of the palms are slow starters. I don't think that your seeds would be difficult to germinate. If your successful, in 30 years you will need a very tall glass house. Palm seedlings are one of my major plants that I have to weed out of the garden. Note that I didn't say that they were weeds, but I have more then I need. And before anyone asks, small palms riped out of the garden don't travel very well.

MediaHound · 09-30-2007, 09:58 AM

Sounds like you may have found some orange seeds of Jubaea chilensis, give that a google and see what you think.

MediaHound · 09-30-2007, 10:04 AM

also maybe it could have been a Queen Palm or even a Butia capitata (or a hybrid of any of these three, and yes they exist too!)

JoeS475 · 09-30-2007, 05:53 PM

Thank you all for your help and suggestions! The seeds are soaking now and will be planted tomorrow. With luck in a few months I'll have success!

Jarred, while it could have been any of the three, the seed looks most to me like that of Butia capitata. The tree was at the Best Western University Inn in Boca Raton.

I'll post pics if I have luck!

~Joe

Lard Greystoke · 10-05-2007, 12:34 AM

It is important to be patient with palms. Depending on species they can come up as fast as two weeks; one to three months is more typical. However up to eight months is also common, and it can be more than a year before the first seed germinates.

If you can get the soil damp rather than soaking wet, and use some plastic to hold in the humidity, that will be an ideal start. If the plants don't germinate after a few months it is difficult to maintain interest. Force yourself to check it a couple of times a week. Murphy's law dictates that just when you ignore them, they will germinate. If the soil dries out re-soak it, and if it gets too wet give it ventilation for a day or two.

formontcalamus · 12-14-2007, 02:46 AM

Joe . . . The reply you got from BGreen was mind boggling ! Mabe you learned something.

I know the area at the end of U.S. #1 The little white seeds are a thatch palm, probably Cocothrinax. Thier finniky, they will all sprout or none will sprout. Takes 4 months. The palm is very slow in captivity.

The orange ones are probably Cocus Plumosa (name has been changed to something two yards long, cannot remember). They take 6 months of very hot temperatures. "not worth the trouble".

The 1" red seeds are Christmas Palm (Vietchi merrelli) (name also recently changed ?) Put three into an 8" pot about 3" apart. Will sprout in less than 2 months, mabe 4-5 weeks ! They make a nice parlor clump to 3 or 5 ft. in couple years. Worth the effort. Scrape off some fruit coat for faster germination. This palm does not need its seed cleaned.
Logos

JoeS475 · 12-16-2007, 04:02 AM

So far nothing has sprouted, but its only been about 2.5 months. Fingers crossed!

~Joe

Taylor · 12-16-2007, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnstropic

And before anyone asks, small palms riped out of the garden don't travel very well.

Jordon,
I tried it from some Trachy seedlings that I thought were going to make it, but in the end they died anyways.

Taylor

JoeS475 · 01-02-2008, 07:12 PM

Well the Christmas Palm seeds are starting to germinate - 2 have sprouted so far! Hope I'll be able to keep them alive, these are my first intentional seedlings!

~Joe

mskitty38583 · 01-02-2008, 07:47 PM

congrats!!

09-30-2007, 12:50 AM	#1 (permalink)
JoeS475 Winter Sucks... JoeS475's Photo Gallery Location: Northern New Jersey Find me on the map! Zone: 6-7 Name: Joe Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 290 BananaBucks : 100,110 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 7 Times Was Thanked 15 Times in 13 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Palm Seed Question... Gonna really sound like a novice here.. I just got back from Florida. While there I picked up a few fresh seeds or fruits from under palm trees. There were some small white ones from a kind of tall fan palm. I found several red ones from a Christmas Palm about 200 feet from the Southernmost Point marker in Key West, and some smallish orange ones from under a tree that looked similar to a coconut palm. What do I do with them? Do I just put them in damp soil and pray? Do they need to be dried first? Will they even be viable? I've never tried germinating seeds before, so I have no clue what to do. Any and all suggestions wil be appreciated! ~Joe __________________

09-30-2007, 06:01 AM	#3 (permalink)
Randy4ut Randy4ut's Photo Gallery Find me on the map! Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,387 BananaBucks : 78,180 Feedback: 23 / 100% Said "Thanks" 1,051 Times Was Thanked 1,324 Times in 444 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 87 Times	Re: Palm Seed Question... Yeah, Good luck, Joe... Be sure to keep us updated with their progress... Hey, Ben, great link!!! Randy __________________

09-30-2007, 09:04 AM	#4 (permalink)
jnstropic jns-TOG jnstropic's Photo Gallery Location: Miami-Dade Find me on the map! Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 233 BananaBucks : 62,077 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 1 Times Was Thanked 296 Times in 71 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1 Times	Re: Palm Seed Question... When dealing with tropical seeds, usually it is best to germinate them as soon as you can because many have a short viability span. Some of the palms are slow starters. I don't think that your seeds would be difficult to germinate. If your successful, in 30 years you will need a very tall glass house. Palm seedlings are one of my major plants that I have to weed out of the garden. Note that I didn't say that they were weeds, but I have more then I need. And before anyone asks, small palms riped out of the garden don't travel very well.

09-30-2007, 09:58 AM	#5 (permalink)
MediaHound Tally-Man MediaHound's Photo Gallery Location: Florida Find me on the map! Zone: 10 Name: Jarred Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 5,260 BananaBucks : 1,988,937 Feedback: 66 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,855 Times Was Thanked 5,078 Times in 1,352 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2,086 Times	Re: Palm Seed Question... Sounds like you may have found some orange seeds of Jubaea chilensis, give that a google and see what you think. __________________ Apologies in advance if I am slow to reply to your PM. I suggest posting in the forums for support if you need something urgent.

09-30-2007, 10:04 AM	#6 (permalink)
MediaHound Tally-Man MediaHound's Photo Gallery Location: Florida Find me on the map! Zone: 10 Name: Jarred Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 5,260 BananaBucks : 1,988,937 Feedback: 66 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,855 Times Was Thanked 5,078 Times in 1,352 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2,086 Times	Re: Palm Seed Question... also maybe it could have been a Queen Palm or even a Butia capitata (or a hybrid of any of these three, and yes they exist too!) __________________ Apologies in advance if I am slow to reply to your PM. I suggest posting in the forums for support if you need something urgent.

Members currently in the chatroom: 0
	The most chatters online in one day was 17, 09-06-2009. No one is currently using the chat.

09-30-2007, 05:53 PM	#7 (permalink)
JoeS475 Winter Sucks... JoeS475's Photo Gallery Location: Northern New Jersey Find me on the map! Zone: 6-7 Name: Joe Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 290 BananaBucks : 100,110 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 7 Times Was Thanked 15 Times in 13 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Palm Seed Question... Thank you all for your help and suggestions! The seeds are soaking now and will be planted tomorrow. With luck in a few months I'll have success! Jarred, while it could have been any of the three, the seed looks most to me like that of Butia capitata. The tree was at the Best Western University Inn in Boca Raton. I'll post pics if I have luck! ~Joe __________________

10-05-2007, 12:34 AM	#8 (permalink)
Lard Greystoke Location: Central Ohio Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 35 BananaBucks : 8,417 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 25 Times in 14 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Palm Seed Question... It is important to be patient with palms. Depending on species they can come up as fast as two weeks; one to three months is more typical. However up to eight months is also common, and it can be more than a year before the first seed germinates. If you can get the soil damp rather than soaking wet, and use some plastic to hold in the humidity, that will be an ideal start. If the plants don't germinate after a few months it is difficult to maintain interest. Force yourself to check it a couple of times a week. Murphy's law dictates that just when you ignore them, they will germinate. If the soil dries out re-soak it, and if it gets too wet give it ventilation for a day or two.

12-14-2007, 02:46 AM	#9 (permalink)
formontcalamus Wholistic Naturalist Location: South Central Puerto Rico Zone: 11 Name: Logos (French/Greek) Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 58 BananaBucks : 57,724 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 4 Times Was Thanked 26 Times in 13 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Palm Seed Question... Joe . . . The reply you got from BGreen was mind boggling ! Mabe you learned something. I know the area at the end of U.S. #1 The little white seeds are a thatch palm, probably Cocothrinax. Thier finniky, they will all sprout or none will sprout. Takes 4 months. The palm is very slow in captivity. The orange ones are probably Cocus Plumosa (name has been changed to something two yards long, cannot remember). They take 6 months of very hot temperatures. "not worth the trouble". The 1" red seeds are Christmas Palm (Vietchi merrelli) (name also recently changed ?) Put three into an 8" pot about 3" apart. Will sprout in less than 2 months, mabe 4-5 weeks ! They make a nice parlor clump to 3 or 5 ft. in couple years. Worth the effort. Scrape off some fruit coat for faster germination. This palm does not need its seed cleaned. Logos __________________ Love the Earth, Logos / Wholistic Naturalist / Married / Father of ten Cats / Sexual preference: Anything that moves / French-Greek ancestry / Special interests: Codiaeum (Crotons), Evolutionary behavior / Look to the examples of Nature to understand Humanity.

12-16-2007, 04:02 AM	#10 (permalink)
JoeS475 Winter Sucks... JoeS475's Photo Gallery Location: Northern New Jersey Find me on the map! Zone: 6-7 Name: Joe Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 290 BananaBucks : 100,110 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 7 Times Was Thanked 15 Times in 13 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Palm Seed Question... So far nothing has sprouted, but its only been about 2.5 months. Fingers crossed! ~Joe __________________

01-02-2008, 07:12 PM	#12 (permalink)
JoeS475 Winter Sucks... JoeS475's Photo Gallery Location: Northern New Jersey Find me on the map! Zone: 6-7 Name: Joe Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 290 BananaBucks : 100,110 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 7 Times Was Thanked 15 Times in 13 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Palm Seed Question... Well the Christmas Palm seeds are starting to germinate - 2 have sprouted so far! Hope I'll be able to keep them alive, these are my first intentional seedlings! ~Joe __________________

01-02-2008, 07:47 PM	#13 (permalink)
mskitty38583 banana junkie mskitty38583 's Photo Gallery Location: north carolina Find me on the map! Zone: 7b Name: mskitty Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 4,071 BananaBucks : 189,125 Feedback: 26 / 100% Said "Thanks" 82 Times Was Thanked 890 Times in 617 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 136 Times	Re: Palm Seed Question... congrats!! __________________ WELCOME TO THE GATOR NATION

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Do these not have viable seed?	island cassie	Main Banana Discussion	7	08-30-2008 10:13 PM
First seed is coming through	marksbananas	Banana Seed Germination Forum	9	08-08-2007 01:07 PM
Basjoo from seed	51st state	Cold Hardy Bananas	1	11-28-2006 08:23 PM
Areca Palm seeds available, looking to trade for other palm seeds, palms, or bananas	MediaHound	Other Plants	0	09-02-2006 09:08 AM
Technical question about musa setting seed	PaulM	Main Banana Discussion	2	09-30-2005 01:39 PM