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Old 05-19-2009, 10:19 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: Palm Lovers' Talk - A place to talk Palms!

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Originally Posted by bepah View Post
PREPARE FOR RANT

Like me and 80% of the people who post here as well. Take a look at the distribution of the posters here. I am in 9b and pass by hundreds of posts that are looking for plants to grow in zone 6 or lower.

For example, this thread is talking about C. renda (lipstick palm), Unless you live in the tropics, you'll spend a lot of time and money watching it die. /not good.

It is my opinion (with which you can add 4 bucks and buy a cup of coffee at Starbacks) that if you live in the tropics, everything seems to be pretty easy to grow. Slip into zone 9 or lower, the challenges mount and grow the lower your zone.

Just in this thread, there is a lot of misinformation re: palms already....thery die slowly and early successes in temperate and cooler areas are almost always followed by the palm struggling and eventually dying. I know this....from experience. I push zones as hard as anyone. For example, I currently have a Pseudophoenix cunninghamiana (King Palm, Bangalow Palm) which is a truly a zone 10 palm. I now have about 6 inches of trunk on it....and I know that a freeze could come any year and kill it (almost happened in 07).

I am sorry to be so strident on this topic, but it is frustrating to me to see so many folks push tropicals to such a limit and then fail. You can protect your banana by cutting it down and putting it the garage for the winter, moving palms is not practical once they reach and size at all, past seedling size.

END OF RANT!
I mentioned that it's for Greenhouse. Tropical, year-long hot and wet greenhouse...
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Old 05-19-2009, 10:22 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Joy Re: Palm Lovers' Talk - A place to talk Palms!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bepah View Post
PREPARE FOR RANT

Like me and 80% of the people who post here as well. Take a look at the distribution of the posters here. I am in 9b and pass by hundreds of posts that are looking for plants to grow in zone 6 or lower.

For example, this thread is talking about C. renda (lipstick palm), Unless you live in the tropics, you'll spend a lot of time and money watching it die. /not good.

It is my opinion (with which you can add 4 bucks and buy a cup of coffee at Starbacks) that if you live in the tropics, everything seems to be pretty easy to grow. Slip into zone 9 or lower, the challenges mount and grow the lower your zone.

Just in this thread, there is a lot of misinformation re: palms already....thery die slowly and early successes in temperate and cooler areas are almost always followed by the palm struggling and eventually dying. I know this....from experience. I push zones as hard as anyone. For example, I currently have a Pseudophoenix cunninghamiana (King Palm, Bangalow Palm) which is a truly a zone 10 palm. I now have about 6 inches of trunk on it....and I know that a freeze could come any year and kill it (almost happened in 07).

I am sorry to be so strident on this topic, but it is frustrating to me to see so many folks push tropicals to such a limit and then fail. You can protect your banana by cutting it down and putting it the garage for the winter, moving palms is not practical once they reach and size at all, past seedling size.

END OF RANT!
Yup, fully understood! Not rant as far as I feel. I have the same problems trying to germinate temperate palms here. Most will come up and die off. I will still try cos I know there will be one amongst the many will fight to survive and grow. I have friends in Japan going the utmost limit in protecting their big palms for the winter. I am lucky to be where I am and I appreciate it so I try to grow as many of the regional stuff as I can before I get others from elsewhere.
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Old 05-19-2009, 12:56 PM   #23 (permalink)
 
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Mail Re: Palm Lovers' Talk - A place to talk Palms!

i use to live in zone 6 ,zone 6=rotten palm tree the leaves on my trachycarpus stayed green but the bud rotted everytime i replaced it ............even a large one and the pindo palm stayed green but it's bud was fried ...good thing i moved to the beach !!!!!
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Old 05-19-2009, 03:55 PM   #24 (permalink)
TANTALIZING TROPICALS
 
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Default Re: Palm Lovers' Talk - A place to talk Palms!

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How hardy do you think the bismarkia is??? can you campare it's hardiness to another palm ?
hard to about 29degrees for short periods of time pretty cold hardy if you ask me
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Old 05-19-2009, 04:24 PM   #25 (permalink)
 
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Red face Re: Palm Lovers' Talk - A place to talk Palms!

im scared to risk it afterall it did take many years to find it! ill post a pic brb
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Old 05-19-2009, 04:32 PM   #26 (permalink)
 
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Joy Re: Palm Lovers' Talk - A place to talk Palms!

see!! he's pretty big
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Old 05-19-2009, 06:30 PM   #27 (permalink)
TANTALIZING TROPICALS
 
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Default Re: Palm Lovers' Talk - A place to talk Palms!

where u looking for a green one or silver because the one u have picture is a green one it wont turn silver with age the silver type starts out kind of a purplish color and turns silver around 2-3 years old when it starts putting out full leaves or fonds
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Old 05-19-2009, 06:49 PM   #28 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Palm Lovers' Talk - A place to talk Palms!

it is a silver/blue one the liting is bad here but you can tell a little more about this pic
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Old 05-19-2009, 07:10 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: Palm Lovers' Talk - A place to talk Palms!

its a green one for sure the silver on it is just that powder if u tke your finger and rub on it that will rub off
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Old 05-19-2009, 07:15 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: Palm Lovers' Talk - A place to talk Palms!

this is a young silver bismarck the brown on the edges is from freezing this tree froze pretty hard about 28 degrees over night but didnt hurt it that bad just turned the tips alittle redish color
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Old 05-19-2009, 07:33 PM   #31 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Palm Lovers' Talk - A place to talk Palms!

it does http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3172/...bccdcd.jpg?v=0 heres a green one and anuther Bismarckia nobilis - Bismarck Palm (Green Form) : Grows on You
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Old 05-19-2009, 07:57 PM   #32 (permalink)
TANTALIZING TROPICALS
 
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Default Re: Palm Lovers' Talk - A place to talk Palms!

your is young yet it will have a darker color and the ones in that picture have been out side in full sun many years thats why there real light colored green heres a picture of a adult silver
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Old 05-19-2009, 08:02 PM   #33 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Palm Lovers' Talk - A place to talk Palms!

what about the stems on the green form? there exstreamly silver on mine ,are they silver on the green form? heres a pic of mine in lite
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Old 05-19-2009, 08:40 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: Palm Lovers' Talk - A place to talk Palms!

that is 100% green form of bismarckia a very nice looking one at that
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Old 05-19-2009, 09:08 PM   #35 (permalink)
 
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Old 05-20-2009, 02:20 AM   #36 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Palm Lovers' Talk - A place to talk Palms!

John- re your 'rant'. Not sure what your point is. We shouldn't push zones on our fav trop and semi-trop plants? I have always wondered how they originally came up with the -20F figure for Needle palms; must have been someone way past zone 6 who noted this. Now if you are saying to plant a palm and then not try to provide winter protection, I agree. That's treating it as an annual, a very expensive annual, and I hate to see a palm sacrificed in this way. But I see nothing wrong with us zone-pushers trying to get some of our favorite plants to survive and, nay indeed flourish in our cooler areas. Just my little rant reply.
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Old 05-20-2009, 10:24 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Default Re: Palm Lovers' Talk - A place to talk Palms!

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John- re your 'rant'. Not sure what your point is. We shouldn't push zones on our fav trop and semi-trop plants? I have always wondered how they originally came up with the -20F figure for Needle palms; must have been someone way past zone 6 who noted this. Now if you are saying to plant a palm and then not try to provide winter protection, I agree. That's treating it as an annual, a very expensive annual, I hate to see a palm sacrificed in this way. But I see nothing wrong with us zone-pushers trying to get some of our favorite plants to survive and, nay indeed flourish in our cooler areas. Just my little rant reply.
Howard,

My rant was to elicit replies (of course, I knew they would come). It is amazing to me how far we may push zones to get the tropical look. I am lucky. I live in an area where most things grow. Winters are too cold, however, for tropical plants, and yet I push 1 (and only 1) zone for some plants that may make it. They have to be placed in areas that do not get the
brunt of the cold and wind. I see how the effort to preserve bananas in colder areas that many folks (including you) live in and am again amazed on the amount of work you do. But when it comes to extreme pushing, ir just becomes silly.

For example, the recent discussion regarding the Bismarckia nobilis. This is a very large palm that throws a deep taproot and grows very fast. It prefers hot dry weather. It is marginal here because of the winters which get into the mid-to high 20s on occasion. The Bismarckia cannot thrive in a pot.

Transplant shock for it is extremely hard on it and many die as the roots are extremely sensitive. It will be stunted and struggle and eventually die and never ever look good. Any zone lower than 9a is truly not appropriate during summer as well as it requires heat for growth.

The Lipstick Palm (we cannot grow this in CA anywhere) is as doomed as doomed can be. High humidity and warm temps (never ever under 50 and only for a short time). Indoors will kill it as it too dry and usually too dark. If one is available, it would be aseedling and be expensive. It travels poorly as well.

There are some substitutes of course, but both you and I know it is not the same.

To have plants that cannot survive (as opposed to may survive) is a waste of time and money and all that remains are bad memories.
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Old 05-20-2009, 10:30 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Joy Re: Palm Lovers' Talk - A place to talk Palms!

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To have plants that cannot survive (as opposed to may survive) is a waste of time and money and all that remains are bad memories.
John, tell me about it! I had enough of trying to keep the Slipper Orchids, Paphiopedilum, alive even though they are from my region. Ah, yes, had a hand in Tulips too. Really bad memories...
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Old 05-20-2009, 04:47 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Default Re: Palm Lovers' Talk - A place to talk Palms!

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Originally Posted by bepah View Post
Howard,

My rant was to elicit replies (of course, I knew they would come). It is amazing to me how far we may push zones to get the tropical look. I am lucky. I live in an area where most things grow. Winters are too cold, however, for tropical plants, and yet I push 1 (and only 1) zone for some plants that may make it. They have to be placed in areas that do not get the
brunt of the cold and wind. I see how the effort to preserve bananas in colder areas that many folks (including you) live in and am again amazed on the amount of work you do. But when it comes to extreme pushing, ir just becomes silly.

For example, the recent discussion regarding the Bismarckia nobilis. This is a very large palm that throws a deep taproot and grows very fast. It prefers hot dry weather. It is marginal here because of the winters which get into the mid-to high 20s on occasion. The Bismarckia cannot thrive in a pot.

Transplant shock for it is extremely hard on it and many die as the roots are extremely sensitive. It will be stunted and struggle and eventually die and never ever look good. Any zone lower than 9a is truly not appropriate during summer as well as it requires heat for growth.

The Lipstick Palm (we cannot grow this in CA anywhere) is as doomed as doomed can be. High humidity and warm temps (never ever under 50 and only for a short time). Indoors will kill it as it too dry and usually too dark. If one is available, it would be aseedling and be expensive. It travels poorly as well.

There are some substitutes of course, but both you and I know it is not the same.

To have plants that cannot survive (as opposed to may survive) is a waste of time and money and all that remains are bad memories.
dont get me started! u just worry about your money and ill worry about how i spend mine. i only have good memories about the plants in my gardens and it really feels good after all the hard work when friends and family come sit on the deck and have a cocktail around a water fall and all my tropical plants and all ppl can say "boy this looks nice i feel like im on vacation in the tropics" thats worth all the hard work in the world for someone that enjoys it but u are right about the tap root and hard to trans plant a bismarckia but they can grow in a pot and it could take 15 years for it to die so when it does just go buy a new one for 15 bucks and start over if theres a will theres a way and im gonna push zone 4-5 to the max i have been doing it for years and had get sucess with all my plants some wont fruit for me but they look damn good in my gardens this picture is of a bismarck that the pot is sitting on concret with no roots busting out it over 9 feet tall and looks nice huh
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Old 05-20-2009, 06:23 PM   #40 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Palm Lovers' Talk - A place to talk Palms!

Hey Just J, I have no problem with having palms, such as your beautiful Bismarck) that are outside during the season then moved into the house for the winter. My living room,and basement are crammed full each fall to spring with just such plants. I do agree with John, however, about trying to keep these plants that are many zones away from home outside during the winter, no matter what protection we try. I wouldn't dare try to plant a Bismarck, a Queen, or a date palm in my yard at then hope that my mulching, wrapping, etc. will get them through the winter. It's just not fair to the plant. You seem to have success with your indoor/outdoor methods, and I agree they look great.
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