Hardy palms for STL.

Raymond · 01-27-2010, 01:16 PM

OK guys and gal's here is my question.....I live just west of St.Louis Mo
and am redoing my back yard...I have a pool and want it to look more tropical than it does now.
I want to put in a nice large palm that will overwinter here with little or no problems...also what other typs of plants other than bananas would you suggest?
Thanks,
Ray

Abnshrek · 01-27-2010, 01:23 PM

I'd look @ your lowest recorded temps over the last 15 years.. and set your criteria from that unless you plan on invasive measures of protection. You know christmas lights, heat-tapes, etc.. that would definately expand your list of plants. Banana's are simple enough to dry store or grow inside, but you would then expand your palm list to sabals, pindos and maybe mules.. :^)

Randy4ut · 01-27-2010, 01:24 PM

Hey Raymond,
If you are planning on planting the hardy palm in the ground, then your choices are limited, I am sorry to say. Depending on how much effort you are willing to put forth in protecting it, about the only reliable choices you have with no protection, would be a needle palm, or sabal minors. If you are willing to protect a bit, then Trachycarpus fortunei would be your best bet for a trunking palm.
Here is a good site to give you some basic information on cold hardy palms:

Southeastern Palm Society

Within the website there is a section that is a quick reference listing cold hardy palms from hardiest to least cold hardy.

SPS Hardy Palms: A Quick Reference

After checking these out, if you have any more questions, please feel free to ask away, or you are welcome to pm me and I will help in any way I can...

LilRaverBoi · 01-27-2010, 01:31 PM

The three types of palms that I hear about on here are Washingtonia robusta and Trachycarpus fortuneii. These seem to be some of the most hardy palm varieties (to my knowledge, and to be honest, I'm not a huge palm guy). Those are the ones I would think might have a chance, but realize, even in warmer zones, these require quite a bit of protection during cold snaps.

Not sure if palms are really cut out for zone 6, but then again, bananas aren't either LOL. I'm sure you could grow just about any type as long as you leave it in a pot or dig it up every fall and bring it indoors (though not always feasible when they get big).

Hope that helps!

Abnshrek · 01-27-2010, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilRaverBoi

The three types of palms that I hear about on here are Washingtonia robusta and Trachycarpus fortuneii.

The Wash Robusta's will not make it one winter up there unless it the mildest winter in years. I think our out of the ordinary winter here killed 2 maybe 3 of mine. I'm getting some sabals :^) Sabal domingensis & Sabal uresana

LilRaverBoi · 01-27-2010, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abnshrek

The Wash Robusta's will not make it one winter up there unless it the mildest winter in years. I think our out of the ordinary winter here killed 2 maybe 3 of mine. I'm getting some sabals :^) Sabal domingensis & Sabal uresana

Thanks for the correction! As stated, I'm no huge palm guy and not an expert by any means. Someone did tell me at one point that WR were something to try here...so they must have been mistaken. Oh well...again, glad we got the correct info for the OP.

Randy4ut · 01-27-2010, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abnshrek

The Wash Robusta's will not make it one winter up there unless it the mildest winter in years. I think our out of the ordinary winter here killed 2 maybe 3 of mine. I'm getting some sabals :^) Sabal domingensis & Sabal uresana

Washy will make it, defoliated, but survive, but with TONS of protection. I believe the needles and minors are your best shot. PLEASE, just check out the links I submitted and touch base with me!!!

Abnshrek, hope you are willing to give the uresana plenty of drainage, or you will have a very difficult time with it. Will tolerate temps, but doesn't like that much moisture in colder climates... Domingensis, best of luck with it, and let me know how it does for ya!!!

Bananaman88 · 01-28-2010, 12:25 PM

I was going to suggest Needle Palm as well. I used to live in STL and worked at the botanical garden. I put some Majesty Palms out in some of my flower beds there one year but I can't recall us ever leaving any palms out through the winter.

LilRaverBoi · 01-28-2010, 08:11 PM

Dang it Randy and Brent!!! Do you guys plan it out to always have nearly-identical avatars or does this just happen!? Looks like I'll be confusing you two again LOL.

Bananaman88 · 01-28-2010, 09:02 PM

I've never noticed us having avatars that looked similar before. But yes, to answer your question, Randy and I do hold a secret monthly meeting just to mess with people's minds!

Randy4ut · 01-28-2010, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bananaman88

I've never noticed us having avatars that looked similar before. But yes, to answer your question, Randy and I do hold a secret monthly meeting just to mess with people's minds!

Now that is a scary thought, meeting of the HALF minds!!! LOL Hang on, I am at work and cannot change my avatar. Will do it as soon as I get home later this evening. You think Brent and I have same avatar, well I bet he won't shortly!!!

BTW, Brent, what is yours? Mine is that ornamental hybrid I am trialing... Sure hope it comes back!!! Only mulch for protection. Think this winter will be a good test for it, what cha think?

LilRaverBoi · 01-29-2010, 01:06 AM

Oh, you two totally had almost identical avatars before! I know cause I was confusing you two....commented on it and you both changed them to other things. Now you proceeded to change them back to similar things again!!! My mind can't distinguish such subtle changes!

Abnshrek · 01-29-2010, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilRaverBoi

Oh, you two totally had almost identical avatars before! I know cause I was confusing you two....commented on it and you both changed them to other things. Now you proceeded to change them back to similar things again!!! My mind can't distinguish such subtle changes!

I guess we have synchronized avatars here :^) next month it could be Mardi Gras :^)
I know they have a bunch of windmill palms so what have they all been X'd with?

Randy4ut · 01-29-2010, 06:05 AM

Tried to change mine when I got home last night, but forgot how to change it to one in my picture gallery. Like they say, can't teach an old dog new tricks!!!

Bananaman88 · 01-29-2010, 01:57 PM

My avatar is my M. laterita, taken about 3 yrs. ago. That has been my avatar since I joined back in '07.

BonoboJoe · 01-29-2010, 02:38 PM

I'd definitely try a Needle Palm. Of course some of the Trachycarpus and Sabal minor should work. I think T. wagerianus may be even more hardy that T. fortunei. A couple that I don't see listed that I've seen listed down to -5 degrees F are Serenoa repens and Nannorrhops ritchiana. Of course everyone list different hardiness for most palms, but both are cool and would be worth protecting. Besides they are fairly short, even here in Houston, so quite easy to cover.

Randy4ut · 01-29-2010, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bananaman88

My avatar is my M. laterita, taken about 3 yrs. ago. That has been my avatar since I joined back in '07.

Brent, I will definitely change mine then!!! You have had yours so long... Please help me remember how to change my avatar to one in my photo gallery!!! Us "old men" have to stick together!!! LOL

Randy4ut · 01-29-2010, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonoboJoe

I'd definitely try a Needle Palm. Of course some of the Trachycarpus and Sabal minor should work. I think T. wagerianus may be even more hardy that T. fortunei. A couple that I don't see listed that I've seen listed down to -5 degrees F are Serenoa repens and Nannorrhops ritchiana. Of course everyone list different hardiness for most palms, but both are cool and would be worth protecting. Besides they are fairly short, even here in Houston, so quite easy to cover.

Not sure where you heard S.repens, or N. ritchiana were hardy to -5F, but I still have not had any luck with the repens. I do know repens does best in VERY well drained soil. I think both are actually a zone 8 plant, but there might be a Nannorrhops that is supposed to be slightly hardier than the standard green form. I still do not think either would be worth the effort in the St. Louis area, just my opinion....

BonoboJoe · 01-29-2010, 03:32 PM

I was going on memory. I just looked them up in Betrock's Essential Guide to Palms and feel that's what I was remembering. I know plants act differently in different zones, but here Serenoa will do just as well with wet feet. I was in Atlanta for around 8 years and Pindos would rot in a heart beat, but I've seen them submerged here in Houston for a month and show close to no signs of damage.

jeffreyp · 01-29-2010, 04:13 PM

I would suggest needle palms, sabal minor, trachycarpus fortunei, and possibly sabal palmetto.

.

01-27-2010, 01:16 PM	#1 (permalink)
Raymond Raymond's Photo Gallery Location: Cedar Hill Missouri Zone: 6 Name: Ray/Scubadude Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 72 BananaBucks : 46,933 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 15 Times Was Thanked 22 Times in 15 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Hardy palms for STL. OK guys and gal's here is my question.....I live just west of St.Louis Mo and am redoing my back yard...I have a pool and want it to look more tropical than it does now. I want to put in a nice large palm that will overwinter here with little or no problems...also what other typs of plants other than bananas would you suggest? Thanks, Ray

01-27-2010, 01:23 PM	#2 (permalink)
Abnshrek Happy Growing Abnshrek 's Photo Gallery Location: Beaumont Texas Find me on the map! Zone: 8b, but 9b weather.. Name: Migael / Michael Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 9,493 BananaBucks : 257,159 Feedback: 45 / 100% Said "Thanks" 10,447 Times Was Thanked 16,443 Times in 5,238 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2,318 Times	Re: Hardy palms for STL. I'd look @ your lowest recorded temps over the last 15 years.. and set your criteria from that unless you plan on invasive measures of protection. You know christmas lights, heat-tapes, etc.. that would definately expand your list of plants. Banana's are simple enough to dry store or grow inside, but you would then expand your palm list to sabals, pindos and maybe mules.. :^) __________________ I'm a Nannerhead :^)

01-27-2010, 01:24 PM	#3 (permalink)
Randy4ut Randy4ut's Photo Gallery Find me on the map! Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,387 BananaBucks : 149,046 Feedback: 23 / 100% Said "Thanks" 1,051 Times Was Thanked 1,324 Times in 444 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 87 Times	Re: Hardy palms for STL. Hey Raymond, If you are planning on planting the hardy palm in the ground, then your choices are limited, I am sorry to say. Depending on how much effort you are willing to put forth in protecting it, about the only reliable choices you have with no protection, would be a needle palm, or sabal minors. If you are willing to protect a bit, then Trachycarpus fortunei would be your best bet for a trunking palm. Here is a good site to give you some basic information on cold hardy palms: Southeastern Palm Society Within the website there is a section that is a quick reference listing cold hardy palms from hardiest to least cold hardy. SPS Hardy Palms: A Quick Reference After checking these out, if you have any more questions, please feel free to ask away, or you are welcome to pm me and I will help in any way I can... __________________

01-27-2010, 01:31 PM	#4 (permalink)
LilRaverBoi Nanner Time! LilRaverBoi's Photo Gallery Location: Cedar Rapids, IA Find me on the map! Zone: 5 Name: Bryan Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,937 BananaBucks : 131,737 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 534 Times Was Thanked 2,243 Times in 1,245 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 855 Times	Re: Hardy palms for STL. The three types of palms that I hear about on here are Washingtonia robusta and Trachycarpus fortuneii. These seem to be some of the most hardy palm varieties (to my knowledge, and to be honest, I'm not a huge palm guy). Those are the ones I would think might have a chance, but realize, even in warmer zones, these require quite a bit of protection during cold snaps. Not sure if palms are really cut out for zone 6, but then again, bananas aren't either LOL. I'm sure you could grow just about any type as long as you leave it in a pot or dig it up every fall and bring it indoors (though not always feasible when they get big). Hope that helps! __________________ BANANA RAVE! Feel the beat from start to stop, dancin' and movin' from bottom to top! lilraverboi@genxglow.com RIP Tog Tan. We love you and will always remember you! I'm Bryan with a Y! There is no 'I' in BRYAN!

01-28-2010, 12:25 PM	#8 (permalink)
Bananaman88 Bananaculturist Bananaman88's Photo Gallery Location: Houston, TX area Find me on the map! Zone: 9 Name: Brent Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,019 BananaBucks : 254,496 Feedback: 22 / 100% Said "Thanks" 1,339 Times Was Thanked 2,263 Times in 1,178 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 191 Times	Re: Hardy palms for STL. I was going to suggest Needle Palm as well. I used to live in STL and worked at the botanical garden. I put some Majesty Palms out in some of my flower beds there one year but I can't recall us ever leaving any palms out through the winter.

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01-28-2010, 08:11 PM	#9 (permalink)
LilRaverBoi Nanner Time! LilRaverBoi's Photo Gallery Location: Cedar Rapids, IA Find me on the map! Zone: 5 Name: Bryan Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,937 BananaBucks : 131,737 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 534 Times Was Thanked 2,243 Times in 1,245 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 855 Times	Re: Hardy palms for STL. Dang it Randy and Brent!!! Do you guys plan it out to always have nearly-identical avatars or does this just happen!? Looks like I'll be confusing you two again LOL. __________________ BANANA RAVE! Feel the beat from start to stop, dancin' and movin' from bottom to top! lilraverboi@genxglow.com RIP Tog Tan. We love you and will always remember you! I'm Bryan with a Y! There is no 'I' in BRYAN!

01-28-2010, 09:02 PM	#10 (permalink)
Bananaman88 Bananaculturist Bananaman88's Photo Gallery Location: Houston, TX area Find me on the map! Zone: 9 Name: Brent Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,019 BananaBucks : 254,496 Feedback: 22 / 100% Said "Thanks" 1,339 Times Was Thanked 2,263 Times in 1,178 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 191 Times	Re: Hardy palms for STL. I've never noticed us having avatars that looked similar before. But yes, to answer your question, Randy and I do hold a secret monthly meeting just to mess with people's minds!

01-29-2010, 01:06 AM	#12 (permalink)
LilRaverBoi Nanner Time! LilRaverBoi's Photo Gallery Location: Cedar Rapids, IA Find me on the map! Zone: 5 Name: Bryan Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,937 BananaBucks : 131,737 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 534 Times Was Thanked 2,243 Times in 1,245 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 855 Times	Re: Hardy palms for STL. Oh, you two totally had almost identical avatars before! I know cause I was confusing you two....commented on it and you both changed them to other things. Now you proceeded to change them back to similar things again!!! My mind can't distinguish such subtle changes! __________________ BANANA RAVE! Feel the beat from start to stop, dancin' and movin' from bottom to top! lilraverboi@genxglow.com RIP Tog Tan. We love you and will always remember you! I'm Bryan with a Y! There is no 'I' in BRYAN!

01-29-2010, 06:05 AM	#14 (permalink)
Randy4ut Randy4ut's Photo Gallery Find me on the map! Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,387 BananaBucks : 149,046 Feedback: 23 / 100% Said "Thanks" 1,051 Times Was Thanked 1,324 Times in 444 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 87 Times	Re: Hardy palms for STL. Tried to change mine when I got home last night, but forgot how to change it to one in my picture gallery. Like they say, can't teach an old dog new tricks!!! __________________

01-29-2010, 01:57 PM	#15 (permalink)
Bananaman88 Bananaculturist Bananaman88's Photo Gallery Location: Houston, TX area Find me on the map! Zone: 9 Name: Brent Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,019 BananaBucks : 254,496 Feedback: 22 / 100% Said "Thanks" 1,339 Times Was Thanked 2,263 Times in 1,178 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 191 Times	Re: Hardy palms for STL. My avatar is my M. laterita, taken about 3 yrs. ago. That has been my avatar since I joined back in '07.

01-29-2010, 02:38 PM	#16 (permalink)
BonoboJoe Location: Houston, TX Find me on the map! Zone: 9 Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 13 BananaBucks : 1,123 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 2 Times Was Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Hardy palms for STL. I'd definitely try a Needle Palm. Of course some of the Trachycarpus and Sabal minor should work. I think T. wagerianus may be even more hardy that T. fortunei. A couple that I don't see listed that I've seen listed down to -5 degrees F are Serenoa repens and Nannorrhops ritchiana. Of course everyone list different hardiness for most palms, but both are cool and would be worth protecting. Besides they are fairly short, even here in Houston, so quite easy to cover.

01-29-2010, 03:32 PM	#19 (permalink)
BonoboJoe Location: Houston, TX Find me on the map! Zone: 9 Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 13 BananaBucks : 1,123 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 2 Times Was Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Hardy palms for STL. I was going on memory. I just looked them up in Betrock's Essential Guide to Palms and feel that's what I was remembering. I know plants act differently in different zones, but here Serenoa will do just as well with wet feet. I was in Atlanta for around 8 years and Pindos would rot in a heart beat, but I've seen them submerged here in Houston for a month and show close to no signs of damage.

01-29-2010, 04:13 PM	#20 (permalink)
jeffreyp Zone 10, South Florida jeffreyp's Photo Gallery Location: Royal Palm Beach Find me on the map! Zone: 10 Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 870 BananaBucks : 154,358 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 30 Times Was Thanked 590 Times in 298 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 4 Times	Re: Hardy palms for STL. I would suggest needle palms, sabal minor, trachycarpus fortunei, and possibly sabal palmetto. .

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