Coppicing Sambucus nigra BLack Lace help

eric27 · 09-23-2011, 12:02 PM

I was planning on doing this next spring, most likely. Anyone have experience with BLack Lace and cutting it all the way down? How did it come back? I am trying to grow it taller into a vase shape plant, and I thought stumulating new growth would help. They will be in the ground 3 years next spring. I thought about only cuttign down 2/3 of the stems and leavign the tallest ones to at least still get some flowers. Has anyone else ever only cut about 2/3 and still gotten a lot of new growth?

sunfish · 09-23-2011, 04:54 PM

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...sT2KlA&cad=rja

Olafhenny · 09-23-2011, 07:40 PM

Hi Eric:

I have two Sambucus Nigra Black Lace. One of them in my yard and the other out neat the front gate
of our strata. They are both growing like crazy and have to be cut down annually to about ¼ of their
size. That is best done in July, because in August the new buds for next year’s flowers are starting
to develop. That is the general accepted practice with S.N. There is a third one near the gate, which
is doing poorly, but that is most likely, because it is trying to ‘make
a living’ underneath some pines.
Otherwise I cannot imagine, why any kind of elder would not grow like wildfire.

Now, if you cut your Sambucus back in spring, you will still get flowers, but not as many as witnessed,
when the arborist, who was hired to trim down the Tamarisks of the strata got carried away and
trimmed the Sambucus as well.

Good luck,
Olaf

eric27 · 09-24-2011, 06:14 PM

Thanks Olaf. When you say 1/4 of the size, are you saying cut the WHOLE thing down to about a 1/4 from the ground, or cut out about 1/4 of the branches? Also I thought about moving one. Is it better in spring or fall to move it? Thanks for all your help!

Olafhenny · 09-24-2011, 11:19 PM

Hi Eric,

I am talking about cutting it to a quarter of the space volume branches and leaves occupy. But that is not
a rule or anything. It is just what works for me. You can cut it down much more than that or not at all,
whatever suits you.* I just wanted to reassure you, that all elders will regrow quite rapidly. That
makes the lace leave so desirable. They have a similar appearance to Japanese maples, but grow a
lot faster.

To your next question: All transplanting or even new planting is best done in fall, because it gives the
plant an opportunity to establish a root system for rapid growth next year. Plants grow toward warmth.
In autumn, when the ground is warmer than the air, they retract resources from their leaves (and shed
them) to build up their root system and in spring, when the air is warmer than the soil, they grow
upward.

The people who run your garden shops know that, but their customers don't. They are reluctant to
buy in fall, when most plants are not in bloom and look rather dreary. That is why the garden shops do
not bring in a lot of stock in autumn, when it is the best time for planting, but wait for spring, when the
stuff looks glorious and sells well.

*Having said that, if you lose a lot of the roots, when transplanting, you may do the plant a favour by
cutting the top back accordingly, to re-establish the balance.

Best,
Olaf

eric27 · 09-25-2011, 10:55 AM

Olaf, of all the things I have read on this topic what you wrote is the most informative and helpful! Thanks so much! I'm going to print this out for future reference.
Eric

09-23-2011, 12:02 PM	#1 (permalink)
eric27 eric27's Photo Gallery Location: Milwaukee, WI Zone: 5b Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 248 BananaBucks : 83,948 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 313 Times Was Thanked 253 Times in 105 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 11 Times	Coppicing Sambucus nigra BLack Lace help I was planning on doing this next spring, most likely. Anyone have experience with BLack Lace and cutting it all the way down? How did it come back? I am trying to grow it taller into a vase shape plant, and I thought stumulating new growth would help. They will be in the ground 3 years next spring. I thought about only cuttign down 2/3 of the stems and leavign the tallest ones to at least still get some flowers. Has anyone else ever only cut about 2/3 and still gotten a lot of new growth?

09-23-2011, 04:54 PM	#2 (permalink)
sunfish Banned sunfish's Photo Gallery Location: San Diego Find me on the map! Zone: 9-11 Name: Tony Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 18,429 BananaBucks : 1,117,739 Feedback: 8 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,210 Times Was Thanked 20,592 Times in 7,760 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2,716 Times	Re: Coppicing Sambucus nigra BLack Lace help http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...sT2KlA&cad=rja

09-23-2011, 07:40 PM	#3 (permalink)
Olafhenny Olafhenny's Photo Gallery Location: Penticton, BC, Okanagan Valley, Canada Find me on the map! Zone: Hardiness Zone 6 Name: Olaf Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,705 BananaBucks : 259,934 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 2,050 Times Was Thanked 2,012 Times in 876 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 77 Times	Re: Coppicing Sambucus nigra BLack Lace help Hi Eric: I have two Sambucus Nigra Black Lace. One of them in my yard and the other out neat the front gate of our strata. They are both growing like crazy and have to be cut down annually to about ¼ of their size. That is best done in July, because in August the new buds for next year’s flowers are starting to develop. That is the general accepted practice with S.N. There is a third one near the gate, which is doing poorly, but that is most likely, because it is trying to ‘make a living’ underneath some pines. Otherwise I cannot imagine, why any kind of elder would not grow like wildfire. Now, if you cut your Sambucus back in spring, you will still get flowers, but not as many as witnessed, when the arborist, who was hired to trim down the Tamarisks of the strata got carried away and trimmed the Sambucus as well. Good luck, Olaf __________________ The reason I joined this forum was to share experiences, my own and those of others and to learn from them.

09-24-2011, 06:14 PM	#4 (permalink)
eric27 eric27's Photo Gallery Location: Milwaukee, WI Zone: 5b Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 248 BananaBucks : 83,948 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 313 Times Was Thanked 253 Times in 105 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 11 Times	Re: Coppicing Sambucus nigra BLack Lace help Thanks Olaf. When you say 1/4 of the size, are you saying cut the WHOLE thing down to about a 1/4 from the ground, or cut out about 1/4 of the branches? Also I thought about moving one. Is it better in spring or fall to move it? Thanks for all your help!

09-24-2011, 11:19 PM	#5 (permalink)
Olafhenny Olafhenny's Photo Gallery Location: Penticton, BC, Okanagan Valley, Canada Find me on the map! Zone: Hardiness Zone 6 Name: Olaf Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,705 BananaBucks : 259,934 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 2,050 Times Was Thanked 2,012 Times in 876 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 77 Times	Re: Coppicing Sambucus nigra BLack Lace help Hi Eric, I am talking about cutting it to a quarter of the space volume branches and leaves occupy. But that is not a rule or anything. It is just what works for me. You can cut it down much more than that or not at all, whatever suits you.* I just wanted to reassure you, that all elders will regrow quite rapidly. That makes the lace leave so desirable. They have a similar appearance to Japanese maples, but grow a lot faster. To your next question: All transplanting or even new planting is best done in fall, because it gives the plant an opportunity to establish a root system for rapid growth next year. Plants grow toward warmth. In autumn, when the ground is warmer than the air, they retract resources from their leaves (and shed them) to build up their root system and in spring, when the air is warmer than the soil, they grow upward. The people who run your garden shops know that, but their customers don't. They are reluctant to buy in fall, when most plants are not in bloom and look rather dreary. That is why the garden shops do not bring in a lot of stock in autumn, when it is the best time for planting, but wait for spring, when the stuff looks glorious and sells well. *Having said that, if you lose a lot of the roots, when transplanting, you may do the plant a favour by cutting the top back accordingly, to re-establish the balance. Best, Olaf __________________ The reason I joined this forum was to share experiences, my own and those of others and to learn from them.

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09-25-2011, 10:55 AM	#6 (permalink)
eric27 eric27's Photo Gallery Location: Milwaukee, WI Zone: 5b Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 248 BananaBucks : 83,948 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 313 Times Was Thanked 253 Times in 105 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 11 Times	Re: Coppicing Sambucus nigra BLack Lace help Olaf, of all the things I have read on this topic what you wrote is the most informative and helpful! Thanks so much! I'm going to print this out for future reference. Eric

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