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DoctorSteve 09-21-2012 05:13 AM

Coconuts and cold tolerance
 
I know this subject has been talked about everywhere but I think people are trying it all wrong. Just like with bananas if you don't know what you are doing and you live in a marginal area they will most likely die or you will have poor luck. I think we all need to try different varieties and see how much more we can push the limit with coconuts

In "The Coconut Odyssey" on page 38 under "Tolerance of Low Temperature" it says there are indigenous coconuts that deal with near freezing temperatures in Hainan Island off southern China. The other more exotic varieties die. I think this would be a good coconut to try.

In this video at the 6 minute mark he says his green malayan died in the frost but his yellow malayan did not. Seems like the Malayan yellow may be another good one to try, it is also available in the U.S..
All Natural Organic Green Coconut Farm in Miami, FL - YouTube

I also think the Fiji Dwarf (Samoan, Niu Leka) would be another good one to try. Its fronds are thicker and more compact, and its trunk is thicker than other dwarf varieties. Maybe that would help retain a little heat overnight in marginal areas.

I say keep your eyes out for something other than Jamaican or Hawaiian talls and grow them side by side and see which ones do a little better. The way I see it, one that can handle a few more degrees than another one may be all some people need.

Sorry for any grammatical errors I am sleep deprived for testing so I am very tired:)

Olafhenny 09-21-2012 06:12 PM

Re: Coconuts and cold tolerance
 
Hi Steve,

although your suggestion is way out of my reach, living in HZ 6, I love your idea of experimentation,
something this forum could have more of, after all trying to push the limits of the tropics further up
north is, what I understand this to be all about.

The only problem is, that experimenting with palm trees may be too costly for some of us. I am
trying to raise palm trees here from seeds for that reason but the lengthy germination period
followed by extremely slow growth taxes my gardener's patience.

Thank you,
Olaf



DoctorSteve 09-21-2012 07:10 PM

Re: Coconuts and cold tolerance
 
I am currently growing Jubaea Chilensis so I know what you mean by slow germination. Coconuts in my opinion are fast growers, at least for palms. Depending on variety, they can fruit in 3-7 years.

I agree with you I think this forum is about pushing the limit. That is why I posted it here I thought I could find more people on here that are willing to scoff at the naysayers. I think with some searching and persistance we could grow coconuts in higher latitudes of FLorida and southern California. I may just may have to build a greenhouse, or move as I am in northern California. A warm area but still to cold.

Let us as a group try what others say no too. Use different varieties and see how they do. After all isn't that how so many of us are growing bananas?

caliboy1994 09-21-2012 08:02 PM

Re: Coconuts and cold tolerance
 
The reason why they can't handle it in Southern California is because of the cool, wet winters. They just rot away. It would be nice if there was a variety that doesn't mind the dry summers and cool winters we have.

DoctorSteve 09-21-2012 09:17 PM

Re: Coconuts and cold tolerance
 
I think the phrase "cold wet winters" when referring to California is said by those who do not live here, that is why I choose not to say it. We are cool but not usually cold but we are certainly not wet. Santa Clara has an annual rainfall of around 15 inches, San Diego is around 12. Not what I would call wet.

None of this is really that important though. The point I am trying to make is, TRY. When we try, try different varieties. If people didn't do this we would still be saying "you can't grow bananas in the bay area". People tried, used different varieties, and some worked. I am thankful that they did, I am sure you are too, that is why we are on this forum:)

If people don't want to try don't, its fine. I am going to try though and I am encouraging others to as well. Then we can share our knowledge.

Caliboy, I think if I remember you are in an area a few degrees warmer in winter, so you could even grow stuff I can't. I know there is a guy in Fremont growing Macadamia, and another person growing Green Sapote in southern California. Both of which people said could not be grown here. Find the right spot, the right variety and maybe we have some luck.

RobG7aChattTN 09-22-2012 07:16 PM

Re: Coconuts and cold tolerance
 
I think all the coconuts in south Florida got below freezing in some of the last harsh winters. There might even be some planted in the Orlando area that survived.

DoctorSteve 09-22-2012 09:23 PM

Re: Coconuts and cold tolerance
 
Oh yeah you guys/gals in Florida should pay attention to that kind of stuff. Grab seeds from the ones that survived. The offspring may have a better chance than most to survive future frosts. Everyone in southern Florida and marginal areas in Florida have a great chance for selecting seed from the hardiest palms and plant them. I wish I was down there to do it.

sunfish 09-22-2012 10:07 PM

Re: Coconuts and cold tolerance
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DoctorSteve (Post 205164)
I think the phrase "cold wet winters" when referring to California is said by those who do not live here, that is why I choose not to say it. We are cool but not usually cold but we are certainly not wet. Santa Clara has an annual rainfall of around 15 inches, San Diego is around 12. Not what I would call wet.

None of this is really that important though. The point I am trying to make is, TRY. When we try, try different varieties. If people didn't do this we would still be saying "you can't grow bananas in the bay area". People tried, used different varieties, and some worked. I am thankful that they did, I am sure you are too, that is why we are on this forum:)

If people don't want to try don't, its fine. I am going to try though and I am encouraging others to as well. Then we can share our knowledge.

Caliboy, I think if I remember you are in an area a few degrees warmer in winter, so you could even grow stuff I can't. I know there is a guy in Fremont growing Macadamia, and another person growing Green Sapote in southern California. Both of which people said could not be grown here. Find the right spot, the right variety and maybe we have some luck.

Wet soil in cool weather is the problem. Many palm growers have tried growing coconut palms in CA. I do not believe anyone has had success.

sunfish 09-22-2012 10:59 PM

Re: Coconuts and cold tolerance
 
Updates on coconut palms in california? - Page 2 - DISCUSSING PALM TREES WORLDWIDE - PalmTalk

caliboy1994 09-23-2012 03:40 AM

Re: Coconuts and cold tolerance
 
Well, with the advent of genetic engineering, it is possible we could get hardier strains of coconut palms that can grow in places like northern Florida and California.

Dalmatiansoap 09-23-2012 03:58 AM

Re: Coconuts and cold tolerance
 
I dont know if famous Newport Beach cocos is still alive?

sunfish 09-23-2012 07:18 AM

Re: Coconuts and cold tolerance
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalmatiansoap (Post 205275)
I dont know if famous Newport Beach cocos is still alive?

or ever grew fruit

DoctorSteve 09-23-2012 09:57 AM

Re: Coconuts and cold tolerance
 
Quote:

Wet soil in cool weather is the problem. Many palm growers have tried growing coconut palms in CA. I do not believe anyone has had success.
This I will agree with. We have prolonged cool periods compared to say FLorida and at least up here in the Bay Area we have lots of clay, not the best for drainage. I think lots of sand and/or perlite/lava rock would help with that.

Quote:

I dont know if famous Newport Beach cocos is still alive?
I will do some more research and see if it is. I think it is alive because of where it is planted more than it's variety. It is on a tiny spec of dirt between a building and the street/sidewalk which creates a little micro climate. I wouldn't doubt if the wall is south facing for more winter heat.

2woodensticks 09-23-2012 10:04 AM

Re: Coconuts and cold tolerance
 
i had 2 jamacian tall,and one jamacian dwarf...for at least 10 years +...went through several cold snaps,minor frost but always gave me fruit{nuts}..i let a guy i met cut some young fronds off to make hats for a fair...worst mistake i ever made..only took 2 or 3 fronds from the middle of each palm..8 1/2 months later ALL DEAD...all three DEAD...cause???LEATHEL YELLOWING...probably transferred from the knife he used to cut the fronds...started with the first one i let him cut.then the domino effect took over and now all dead...did take samples to FSU..confirmed LEATHEL YELLOWING.. causes weakness in palm,making them more susceptible to disease and cold..sorry if i go off topic..

DoctorSteve 09-23-2012 10:10 AM

Re: Coconuts and cold tolerance
 
I think if anyone down in marginal areas wanted to try they should order the Malayan yellow dwarf (that Chinese variety can't be shipped here) variety from florida-coconts.com, plant in extremely well drained soil. Plant it next a south facing wall, black rock ground cover, and maybe next to a pool.

Also check out Sepp Holzer, the guy is growing stuff in Austria at at 1500 meters that people said he couldn't. His techniques may help with zone pushers. I myself will use as many as I can for my bananas. An inspiring individual.

iz 02-06-2013 12:28 PM

Re: Coconuts and cold tolerance
 
I just bought a "GOLD MALAY DWARF COCONUT~ Cocos nucifera SEED." I will plant it in a pot first. After if it gets too big enough to bring inside my greenhouse, I guess I will do the test of planting it outside next to my salt water pool in zone 8 area- Dallas. My bananas are doing well. I have put some of the bananas that fruited late in a large container-growing well. And for my California Gold and Saba seems to be firm in ground outside. Of course I cover it with poly Tarp cover. Maybe next year, I will use the Christmas tree light to give it extra warmth.

Im also considering getting the Mini Coconut Palm and the Bolivian Coconut.
I only like investing on edible plant and trees.
I sure miss the feel of the tropical paradise..can't we bring some of those paradise here in Texas too?
This place did and it gets colder there; GREATER GOODNA NEWS Councillor Paul Tully - Division 2 City of Ipswich: What a lovely bunch of coconuts - in downtown Goodna!

Any one got other suggestions about hardiest coconut?
:islandsharkbanana: :simpatica

Abnshrek 02-06-2013 01:57 PM

Re: Coconuts and cold tolerance
 
If you grow it in a pot you may be alright but it will die without protection outside. :^)

pmurphy 02-06-2013 05:28 PM

Re: Coconuts and cold tolerance
 
From Dave's Garden - "Pasopaya Palm, Bolivian Mountain Coconut Parajubaea torallyi
USDA Zone 9a: to -6.6 C (20 F)
From Wikipedia - Parajubaea torallyi, commonly known as the Palma De Pasobaya or Bolivian Mountain Coconut, is a species of evergreen flowering plant of genus Parajubaea in the Arecaceae family. It is endemic to Bolivia, where it grows in dry forest on steep rocky slopes at 2,400-3,400 meters altitude, and is now threatened by habitat loss. Mature plants can be over 13 meters in height. They can withstand temperatures of -13 degrees Celsius. The fruits, or cocos, grow 5-10cm in diameter in clusters weighing up to 15kg.
I have heard that is plant is growing in both California and Oregon states and that it should survive zone 8b. If I can ever find one and get it across the border you can be sure I am going to try it
FYI, someone is currently selling them on EBay, but I can not get it into Canada because it is coming from California. :(

edzone9 02-06-2013 05:52 PM

Re: Coconuts and cold tolerance
 
I Live In NE Florida Zone 9 , I have 2 I belive Costa Rican Cc Palm Trees Bought At Acosta Farms In Miami , This December we had afew days in the 30f , The Leafs Tunred Brown , But New Green Fronds are emerging So Both of them are alive , Same For My Madagascar Spindle Palms.

Thank You..

DoctorSteve 02-17-2013 10:16 PM

Re: Coconuts and cold tolerance
 
Quote:

I just bought a "GOLD MALAY DWARF COCONUT~ Cocos nucifera SEED." I will plant it in a pot first. After if it gets too big enough to bring inside my greenhouse, I guess I will do the test of planting it outside next to my salt water pool in zone 8 area- Dallas. My bananas are doing well. I have put some of the bananas that fruited late in a large container-growing well. And for my California Gold and Saba seems to be firm in ground outside. Of course I cover it with poly Tarp cover. Maybe next year, I will use the Christmas tree light to give it extra warmth.

Im also considering getting the Mini Coconut Palm and the Bolivian Coconut.
I only like investing on edible plant and trees.
I sure miss the feel of the tropical paradise..can't we bring some of those paradise here in Texas too?
This place did and it gets colder there; GREATER GOODNA NEWS Councillor Paul Tully - Division 2 City of Ipswich: What a lovely bunch of coconuts - in downtown Goodna!
Yes this is what I am talking about. We need to get our hands on coconuts from palms in areas like these. Places that get occasional frosts or mild frosts every year, and still survive.

I say we start looking. Know someone in Australia? Have them go grab some and try growing them.

I love the enthusiasm that this is getting.

By the way this is the average weather for that area. Looks like Southern California weather to me.
Goodna, Australia Weather Averages | Monthly Average High and Low Temperature | Average Precipitation and Rainfall days | World Weather Online


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