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Old 09-16-2009, 12:38 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need your input everyone, more regional sections are coming and we need your advi

There you go, Chris, starting a fight! Just kidding.

Maybe Brian can related to a cool guy from zone 9 better than some snob from zone 10....Brian, your comments are out of place with the intent of this thread. It seems odd that you mention the forum being about open discussion and then go bashing someone. Enough said.

Like I wrote before, I think we have enough sub-forums (too many, honestly). But I do prefer the idea of climate zones instead of global regions, etc. On the other hand, I think our Cold Hardy Banana session is as much of something zone specific that we need.
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Old 09-16-2009, 06:34 AM   #42 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Need your input everyone, more regional sections are coming and we need your advi

APPARENTLY U DID NOT READ MY POST CORRECTLY....Like I said....this is my opinion...my opinion is not directed to or at any certain person....it was directed at many-many posts....with expressing ones opinion....helps to make things grow...makes change...I don't think I was rude...I WAS STATING MY OPINION.....I feel the word stupid is very right....that's my opinion....[color="Red"] THE WORD STUPID WAS NOT DIRECTED AT ANYONE...IT IS MY PERSONNAL OPINION about a topic........my opinion which is just as important as anyone elses....is being proved correctly already by your response!
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Old 09-16-2009, 07:00 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need your input everyone, more regional sections are coming and we need your advi

Quote:
Originally Posted by bananadude View Post
APPARENTLY U DID NOT READ MY POST CORRECTLY....Like I said....this is my opinion...my opinion is not directed to or at any certain person....it was directed at many-many posts....with expressing ones opinion....helps to make things grow...makes change...I don't think I was rude...I WAS STATING MY OPINION.....I feel the word stupid is very right....that's my opinion....[color="Red"] THE WORD STUPID WAS NOT DIRECTED AT ANYONE...IT IS MY PERSONNAL OPINION about a topic........my opinion which is just as important as anyone elses....is being proved correctly already by your response!
I read your post very thoroughly..twice...and there are some fairly strong inflections directed at specific (one directly at me) people within the board..and some at groups of people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bananadude View Post
WOW
some people don't like the repeat posts from people, ....Now how stupid is this......at one time u yourself was a new person on Bananas.Org....and u posted questions...questions that were probably already posted....[color="Red"]

you know I get the impression that they think they are...well just all that, if u know what I mean...(I think they make a pill 4 it) and let me add....the bananas you grow in the warmer zones...I can grow successfully right here in Zone 5 Michigan !


Mind u...this is my opinion!

BRIAN
Adding just my opinion is the equivalent of saying "just joking" after making a disparaging comment about someone (i.e. "Stupid").

This is not a competition..we are all here to make new friends.

Kudos to your on your Northern Success.

Take a chill pill dude.

Do you play tennis?

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Old 09-16-2009, 07:08 AM   #44 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Need your input everyone, more regional sections are coming and we need your advi

No division is going to be perfect-(everyone knows that zones are different from region to region) but zones have more in common than do some of these regions. For example: All of Flordia is incuded with the southeast- Most of Flordia is zone 9 and up, while the rest of the South-east is zone 7/8 for the most part. It would probably make me cry to see some of the beautiful things that can be grown in southern Flordia that wouldn't stand a chance here in SC. As far as USA goes- southern FL, Southern CA, and Hawaii- are really in a class by themselves as far as tropical plants go. I don't want to exclude anyone, but if they are in the same "group" you'll still have a lot of posts with "xxx hardy in xxx area" within the group. You could probably lump SC, NC, GA, MI, AL,TN together without much problem.
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Old 09-16-2009, 11:42 AM   #45 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Need your input everyone, more regional sections are coming and we need your advi

OK Since we are throwing opinions out there here is one. Before deciding HOW to divide things up there needs to be some clear idea as to what we want to acomplish. What is the goal?

Do we want to facilitate a geographical oriented section to make it easier for face to face meetings, discussions and exchanges?

Do we want to share and cmpare experiences based on growing conditions.
Not just zones but overall conditions including humidity, pests, soils, and even atmosphere maintained in hot/green houses for those who use them?

There are a lot of good ideas on this post. All of them worthy of consideration but there are all over the map on what they will accomplish.
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Old 09-16-2009, 12:17 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need your input everyone, more regional sections are coming and we need your advi

Wow, this has gotten HOT!!!

As a newbie to this org, here are a couple of my thoughts:

First, you can't stop or even slow down the repeats. It is just the nature of this beast and happens on all forums my partner and I belong to regardless of the topic (Bonsai, Arisaema, Amorphophallus, Trillium, Banana, Cadillac, Imperial, Thunderbird, Oldsmobile - that's our house). Every new person that joins (and that's what we want, right?) is going to ask a question that's been asked before. We've all "been there and done that". What we can do, as others here have done for me, is provide a link to a previous thread that addresses their question instead of starting over completely - or worse, ignoring it as we saw a month ago or so.

We may actually be able to cut back on the repeats if there were less forums to choose from. For instance, there is specific forum for ornamental bananas that has a total of 6 threads on it. Go to the main discussion forum and take a look at the number of siam ruby and ae ae threads that are there. Why aren't those threads being posted to ornamentals? Because the most traffic is in the main discussion, and if you want something seen and responded to you better put it there because we use it as a "catch all" forum. Do ornamental and species really need to be seperate forums? Do propogation techniques and seed germination need to be seperate? Half of the threads in the for sale and auction forum are [wanted], yet just below this is a wanted forum! And aren't both of these forums already covered by the "classifieds" in the menu bar at the top of the page? Am I missing something? There is so much overlap that I have had to post the same thing in different forums so the right people would find it and answer a question. In other online clubs, moderaters will move threads when they end up where they should not be, but there are too many options here.

I can see the logic behind both sides of the zone split thing, but I would end up in "no mans' land". Here on the northern Gulf Coast (and the southern Atlantic Coast) we may not have a zn 10 and higher 365 day per year growing season, but we can grow most every banana y'all grow and almost as well. Maybe a little smaller and slower, but we do just fine here, thank you. On the immediate coast we may lose a few winter months of growth and our foliage to frost, but I can't remember the last time I lost pstems to a freeze, but just a few dozen miles inland things change fast. My clump of ice cream is putting out its second flower of the year now. Will it amount to anything? Probably not, but that's not why I grow bananas - its just a perk when it works out. You folks growing bananas in pots or worse - digging them up to store in a basement for the winter - amaze me. That's what I call dedication! I rarely go to the cold hardy forum, but actually replied to a siam ruby post there (the least cold hardy banana I have)! As for the container forum, this doesn't factor into my life at all except for some new plants I potted to establish and give a little extra protection to this winter. Just like the zone 9 and 10 guys, bananas in containers (full time) just doesn't apply to me. Could the cold hardy and container forums be combined and dedicated to folks growing bananas outside the "comfort zone"?

I'm eager to see how this works out, my guess is that we'll survive either way. Sorry for the blah blah blah.

Russell
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Old 09-16-2009, 12:57 PM   #47 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Need your input everyone, more regional sections are coming and we need your advi

I agree that re posting is a reality. It's going to happen. But maybe it's not such a bad thing. Reposting is like composting of ideas. You put them on the pile, they settle and mellow, then when they are turned back to the surface the have the chance to become more useful than they were at the beginning.
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Old 09-16-2009, 12:59 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need your input everyone, more regional sections are coming and we need your advi

Quote:
Originally Posted by bananadude View Post
WOW....talk of splitting up into Zones/Regions...who thought of this one.....I thought Bananas.Org. was a forum based DISCUSSION group....putting all people...from all zones together to share...learn and grow thru each others...knowledge and experience!

Mind you...this is my opinion....But I get the impression from reading the threads in regards to all of this...is that some people don't like the repeat posts from people, ....Now how stupid is this......at one time u yourself was a new person on Bananas.Org....and u posted questions...questions that were probably already posted....reposting...is beneficial....especially with ever changing techniques taking place!

I get the feeling that the warmer zones just want 2 b in a group all by themselves....you know I get the impression that they think they are...well just all that, if u know what I mean...(I think they make a pill 4 it) and let me add....the bananas you grow in the warmer zones...I can grow successfully right here in Zone 5 Michigan ! Mind you, it won't get as big and I have to dig the suckers up....but it can be grown here! My experience from growing non hardy bananas can be beneficial to many and maybe even you down there in the warmer zones...sharing ones experiences is what this group based forum is all about!

By splitting up into zones/regions would stop the knowledge flow...the flow of new improved beneficial techniques and the ability to learn from the experiences of each others success and failures and the ability to grow! Why change something that is not broken...just for a few!

Isn't this what Bananas.Org. is all about...LEARNING - SHARING - GROWING BANANAS!


Mind u...this is my opinion!

BRIAN

All that I will say to this is that prior to moving to Zone 13+ I was from Northern Canada and grew bananas outdoors there (ornamentals) in USDA 2a. My hope for a tropical-specific forum stems from the fact that a Michigan grower will likely never face the problem of deterring a tapir or javelina from eating his plants, whereas for me it is a common problem, as it is for anybody in the tropical forests of mainland South America. Equally, I never have to worry about overwintering anything here - just about protecting it from seasonal flooding. As Bob points out, I and others in my general geographic region compost more pups than many of you grow.

Splitting us into geographic regions doesn't stop the flow of information - the Europe group has proven this - and it actually increases the support network for those of us who don't live in North America. Certainly it also opens the doors to more banana trade within the entire Society, not just our respective zones or regions.

Those are my 2 cents on the matter.
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Old 09-16-2009, 01:31 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need your input everyone, more regional sections are coming and we need your advi

Quote:
Originally Posted by mckoinld View Post
I agree that re posting is a reality. It's going to happen. But maybe it's not such a bad thing. Reposting is like composting of ideas. You put them on the pile, they settle and mellow, then when they are turned back to the surface the have the chance to become more useful than they were at the beginning.
Absolutely reposting on an existing topic can be beneficial. When members are referring to eliminating some of the reposts the reference relates to "continuing existing threads as opposed to starting new threads". That way experienced and new members alike can leverage off of the time and effort that has already been expended on the topic. There are a few threads I enjoy (i.e. African Rhino Horn) to dig up and add information (as opposed to re-typing the exact same information on a new thread).

One of the primary motivations in having multiple forums is to catalog topics (think library) to make information more readily available to members (as opposed to Craiglist style threads that people would have to haphazardly search through). I am personally amazed at the attention and effort put forth by the many experienced board members. The key is to how best to present this information "for everyone's benefit". Hence, sub-dividing the information in to forums. Russ raised some good points....we should look at the cataloging of the forums on an overall basis.....the problem is as the board grows this would require reducing or moving existing forums and threads (not an easy assignment).

The difficulty of on-line forums is that we rarely have the opportunity meet and differences can be misinterpreted and people get offended. I have been fortunate enough to meet many of the members of the board in person and the experiences have been amazing..the most polite and generous folks I have ever socialized with.

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Old 09-16-2009, 01:46 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need your input everyone, more regional sections are coming and we need your advi

What about the people say who live in zone7 but has a very big greenhouse and grows banana plants from zone 10 does these mean they will be cut off from information.
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Old 09-16-2009, 01:52 PM   #51 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Need your input everyone, more regional sections are coming and we need your advi

Reposting is also good because information changes- how many posts are there about cold-hardy "tropicals"?- something that wasn't thought to be hardy- might be tried out and be added to the list. New plants come along all the time, discovered and hybrids. Anyone should, of course, search past posts before asking a question, but a year-old post may not be completely correct anymore. As long as it's not the exact same question-every couple days- reposting is a good thing.
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Old 09-16-2009, 02:06 PM   #52 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Need your input everyone, more regional sections are coming and we need your advi

Quote:
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What about the people say who live in zone7 but has a very big greenhouse and grows banana plants from zone 10 does these mean they will be cut off from information.
Not at all, but a person with zone 10 plants in a green house would get a much better and aplicable answer posting in a section devoted to zone 10, than in a section frequented more often by people from Zone 7-8.

This wouldn't cut anyone off at all- you can go to the European section right now if you want- though the info might not apply as well to you as a section about your specific area.

If you look at a lot of the posts- you'll see a lot of "does "X" plant grow in "X" area- zones might not perfect but it's not bad place to start.
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Old 09-16-2009, 02:41 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need your input everyone, more regional sections are coming and we need your advi

I think it would be a good thing to get info from members in in my area but they should have old post for info and some of the information is hard to find sometimes you can dig and dig and still cant find it maybe its just me.
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Old 12-15-2009, 10:19 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need your input everyone, more regional sections are coming and we need your advi

Quote:
Originally Posted by coast crab View Post
Wow, this has gotten HOT!!!

As a newbie to this org, here are a couple of my thoughts:

First, you can't stop or even slow down the repeats. It is just the nature of this beast and happens on all forums my partner and I belong to regardless of the topic (Bonsai, Arisaema, Amorphophallus, Trillium, Banana, Cadillac, Imperial, Thunderbird, Oldsmobile - that's our house). Every new person that joins (and that's what we want, right?) is going to ask a question that's been asked before. We've all "been there and done that". What we can do, as others here have done for me, is provide a link to a previous thread that addresses their question instead of starting over completely - or worse, ignoring it as we saw a month ago or so.

We may actually be able to cut back on the repeats if there were less forums to choose from. For instance, there is specific forum for ornamental bananas that has a total of 6 threads on it. Go to the main discussion forum and take a look at the number of siam ruby and ae ae threads that are there. Why aren't those threads being posted to ornamentals? Because the most traffic is in the main discussion, and if you want something seen and responded to you better put it there because we use it as a "catch all" forum. Do ornamental and species really need to be seperate forums? Do propogation techniques and seed germination need to be seperate? Half of the threads in the for sale and auction forum are [wanted], yet just below this is a wanted forum! And aren't both of these forums already covered by the "classifieds" in the menu bar at the top of the page? Am I missing something? There is so much overlap that I have had to post the same thing in different forums so the right people would find it and answer a question. In other online clubs, moderaters will move threads when they end up where they should not be, but there are too many options here.

I can see the logic behind both sides of the zone split thing, but I would end up in "no mans' land". Here on the northern Gulf Coast (and the southern Atlantic Coast) we may not have a zn 10 and higher 365 day per year growing season, but we can grow most every banana y'all grow and almost as well. Maybe a little smaller and slower, but we do just fine here, thank you. On the immediate coast we may lose a few winter months of growth and our foliage to frost, but I can't remember the last time I lost pstems to a freeze, but just a few dozen miles inland things change fast. My clump of ice cream is putting out its second flower of the year now. Will it amount to anything? Probably not, but that's not why I grow bananas - its just a perk when it works out. You folks growing bananas in pots or worse - digging them up to store in a basement for the winter - amaze me. That's what I call dedication! I rarely go to the cold hardy forum, but actually replied to a siam ruby post there (the least cold hardy banana I have)! As for the container forum, this doesn't factor into my life at all except for some new plants I potted to establish and give a little extra protection to this winter. Just like the zone 9 and 10 guys, bananas in containers (full time) just doesn't apply to me. Could the cold hardy and container forums be combined and dedicated to folks growing bananas outside the "comfort zone"?

I'm eager to see how this works out, my guess is that we'll survive either way. Sorry for the blah blah blah.

Russell
It HAS gotten HOT in here! Like a naner in a hothouse, this thread is taking off!

I even sense a little bit of "Zone Envy" here and there! LOL! C'mon, admit it, MOST of us have at least a little bit of zone envy!


Anyway... on to the topic at hand:
I tend to agree with alot of what I have quoted above. I tend to be of the mind set "if it aint broke, don't fix it" when it comes to things that work, and for the time I have been reading and posting here (and admittedly I could participate alot more and will try to do so) everything seems to work pretty darn good the way it is. That is not to say there cant always be room for improvements. Reposting is inevitable on any forum, it just happens, and I am one of those that do not think its a bad thing at all. Granted, there may be times when a topic gets reposted too often, and if that happens, well, perhaps its just time to combine the threads on the same topic sticky that topic for a while, or direct people to use the forum search function.

I agree with the poster I quoted about the overlap, and about how the forums are used. Perhaps too many "choices" are not t he best thing. I have noticed some of the same things they pointed out in their post. It seems to me that some of the forums here could be pared down by combining them into one singular section. For instance, the "classifieds" as pointed out above. Also another thing that has proven very effective on another message board I post on is user moderation. People who have the time to, and participate regularly, even if not posting all the time, make great candidates to "moderate" forums, and by moderate, mostly that means making sure that threads get moved to the appropriate place.

As far as zones go, well lets take a look at zones. I think zones can be somewhat lumped together here. Here is my way of thinking. 1,2,3, in one group, 4,5,6, in another, 7,8,9 in another, and 10+ in another. I know there is ALWAYS going to be variations, and "edges" of zones, so some may have to visit a couple areas, but I think a grouping like that addresses the vast majority of folks since that type of zone breakdown seem to me to have more in common than not. For instance, 7,8,9, while zone 9 can gro more than zone 7 for sure, one BIG thing they all have in common is frost / freezes. While zone 9 gets considerably less than zone 7, it is still a major component of most in those zones in as far as overwintering, / cold hardiness, protection methods. zones 1,2,3, all freeze and freeze rather deeply, but zone 3 probably has a longer and HOTTER summer. Zones 10+ are all much more tropical in nature, and frost / freezes are relatively rare. I personally live in an area that is a cusp. Its 7b, and also 8A. Some microclimates here are easily 8A, and some even approach 8B. However, we CAN, and do once in a while experience 7b, and 7A cold, but generally given the city and its urban heat island and the influence of the tidal river here, are a rather warm 7B or cold 8A over all. There are microclimates here where Serenoa repens grows outdoors, unprotected, and does just fine. Saw Palmetto, which isnt nearly as cold hardy as Sabal Minor, or even Butia butia capitata. I have also seen someone overwinter a Red Abyssinian here in a micro climate. I think some lines need to be drawn in terms of breakdowns, and inevitably that is going to leave some having to use multiple forums more often than others, which is not a bad thing at all IMHO. I dont think you want to compartmentalise too much anyway because while that may be "Convenient" it may also curb or slow the spread / dissemination of experience, knowledge....etc

General growing conditions are great, but so are geographic locations for trading, swap meets, local / regional clubs or groups..etc.. but perhaps that could be covered under one subsection, which is further devided by state, say a sub forum called "state forums' where each state has its own forum and people can "connect" on here via posting in their particular states forum. This solves the whole breaking down the country into regions or sections, and also provides MOST, with a viable forum to go to post gatherings in their area/ region. There are going to be some who live in places that are on state lines, but that can be overcome by posting a "metropolitan area's gathering, in two or three different states forums as needed, to cover that cities entire metro area.

If you are going to break it down into regions such as your map in the initial post, while I cant speak for others in other areas, I can say that many people in the mid Atlantic states prefer to be called just that. Im not too sure the good folks of NJ, DE, MD, even PA want to be lumped in with the northeast or new england, nor do they want to be lumped in with the southeast. There are even those in NC, who prefer to be referred to as a mid Atlantic state. From what I have seen, the mid Atlantic states are largely defined as, NJ, DE, MD, DC, VA, and often NC and PA are included. But I digress, there is ALOT of climate / zone disparity in just that one region.

So many great ideas in here! I think the big question lies in Mkoinld's post a few posts back and is spot on. Specific goals should be set as to what exactly we want to accomplish here. The goals, and which direction we want to go I think MUST come first, and once those are sussed out, then we can really think about how to go about the best way of attaining those set goals, and making the appropriate changes to meet them.

Just thought I would put my .02 in. Sorry to be so long winded!

I hope something I said here someone found worthwhile! Happy holidays everyone!
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Old 12-15-2009, 10:44 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need your input everyone, more regional sections are coming and we need your advi

If you are like me and you visit the forum daily then you only need click on the "daily posts" or "new posts" button. Anything new shows up regardless what section it's in.
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