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Ornamental Bananas This forum is for discussions of ornamental bananas. Ornate bananas are beautiful and a joy to grow. And there are so many types to discuss and learn about.


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Old 11-14-2010, 03:46 PM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Default Ae-Ae bananas on Hawaii Island

Since joining this August Group, I had decided I must have an Ae-Ae banana. Today I went to our farmers' market and spoke with several banana growers, both commercial and just plant sellers. Their uniform comment was that Ae-Ae is extremely difficult. The purpose of this thread is to learn if anyone has had a long time experience with Ae-Ae and what you did, or didn't do.

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Old 11-14-2010, 04:02 PM   #2 (permalink)
 
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Smile Re: Ae-Ae bananas on Hawaii Island

I'm joining this thread because I'm interested to know also...


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Old 11-14-2010, 04:23 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ae-Ae bananas on Hawaii Island

You wouldn't want to start out with one as your first banana, but so far, I've not had any problems with mine other than spider mites. You have to keep them warm all year, and in well drained soil, and lighter on the fertilizer and water than most bananas.
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Old 11-14-2010, 04:45 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ae-Ae bananas on Hawaii Island

They are much more picky than most bananas, but under the right conditions they can be just as vigorous as any banana. The Amy Greenwell gardens over in Kona has about 10 stands or so that all look awesome, Ken Love has a very nice one too at the 12 Trees Project on Napo'opo'o road. You may want to contact them and see if they have any tricks.

Problem is, I'm not sure exactly what the "right" conditions are, but it won't hurt to give them the best treatment possible. Some bananas may do ok with casual simple planting, but for the best results with any variety, a hole about 3ft wide and 2-3ft deep should be dug and filled 1/3-1/2 way with a good compost and mixed in really well. They should be well watered of course, and given plenty of sunlight. However, with A'ea'e it's probably best to keep it in a slightly shadier location to avoid burning the white areas of the leaf. However, if you have reliable cloud cover (as in Kona), you can get away with it easier out in the open.
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Old 11-14-2010, 05:48 PM   #5 (permalink)
 
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Unhappy Re: Ae-Ae bananas on Hawaii Island

I have had so-so results with this variety both on O'ahu and here in Windward Big Island. I tried twice in Kahalu'u O'ahu and got one to fruit, put out one or two keikis and then everything died out!

Did the same in Kurtistown here but the plant never even lasted until fruiting.

So, I gave up.
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Old 11-14-2010, 06:46 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ae-Ae bananas on Hawaii Island

I was told they are difficult too, but I haven't found that to the case - so far.

Got mine late summer of '09, and planted it in a shady spot under my big live oak where it would get filtered light throughout the day. I left it in the ground and then we had the coldest, wettest winter we've had in several years, killing all my bananas to the ground. I was sure it was dead but it was one of the first to pop up in the spring and has done really well this summer. We had some really dry weather in October with very low humidity and this caused some ugly brown spotting on the white part of the leaves as Gabe mentioned.

Still keeping my fingers crossed.

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Old 11-14-2010, 07:05 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Ae-Ae bananas on Hawaii Island

Joining the thread to learn too...



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Old 11-14-2010, 07:24 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ae-Ae bananas on Hawaii Island

Aeae is not difficult if you provide the right conditions for them. Having grown them for about 20+ years, here are the basics I have learned along the way. They can be PH sensitive. Provide soil conditions right around 6. They prefer less water than most other varieties, this of course depends on how much water your type of soil retains vs how much water you give them. They will rot if given too much and will not grow with 'wet feet'. They will grow in shade, partial shade, or full sun. Full sun will grow a much sturdier stronger mat, but with that, you will have more browning of the white tissue in its leaves. Aeae will benefit from epsom salts as well as most other bananas and heliconias. Rooting out a new corm is the most difficult part, as can be with most dug up musa corms; very light on the watering, remove any excess leaves. Better to allow the new corm to use its energy into producing new roots than to support soon-to-be non functioning leaves. I recommend starting them out in pots with as much as 80% perlite, and I usually start them out in 100% (very good drainage and lots of aeration to the new roots). Best to purchase a small already rooted potted plant to avoid any re-rooting problems for the novice. Follow these tips and you will have no problems growing Aeae. 1. Do not over water. 2. Do not plant in water retaining soil areas. 3. more sun, stronger plant. 4. Patience Patience Patience.....let them alone and dont 'fuss' with them, I know how many well intentioned over-waterers they are out there in our hobby!! Also depending on the amount of mutant tissue exhibited in the particular plant you start out with-Aeae will have a tendency to produce some all green suckers (who cares about those?), all white suckers (etiolates)-these will die if separated from the mother plant, and will weaken the mother if allowed to continue to grow as they are entirely dependent on its mothers chlorophyll to survive, and the rest with varying degrees of 'attractive' amounts of white tissue. This is the main reason they remain on the more expensive side-they do not produce genetically identical clones from the parent.

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Old 11-14-2010, 08:31 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ae-Ae bananas on Hawaii Island

additional information;
Musa 'Ae Ae' - Bananas Wiki
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Old 11-14-2010, 10:16 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ae-Ae bananas on Hawaii Island

For nearly 50 years I have grown Ae Ae bananas. The plants in my garden today are related to the first plant. This year I gave out 13 pups and saved 6 that flowered this summer. Only 4 were allowed to have fruit. The Ae Ae is strong because it's in full sun. The white parts on the leaf often scorch. The only reason that they are easy to grow for me is that I'm in the right place. They get plenty water and a moderate fertilizing. My soil is not acidic.

I wish that I could learn how to grow tulips. I tried it once. It wasn't worth the time and money for a few tulip flowers. Longwood Garden grows the Ae Ae banana and they might help with ways to grow it in cold areas. I know of two times that Longwood lost the Ae Ae.

The only good grower that I have seen is Greenie in Miami. His pups are strong and he gets a lot of them do to the fertilizes and warm weather.
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Old 11-14-2010, 10:21 PM   #11 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Ae-Ae bananas on Hawaii Island

I have grown them for several years and have also had great results. I have one mat in front of my house that is in full sun. In one season I got three pups and they have grown nicely. I have another mat with three 15 plus footers and lots of pups (10 plus). This mat is in the shade and the pups have grown slowly. I mulch all my plants heavy and they seem to like it. Don't over water if your soil can't handle it. I apply coffee grinds once a month during April through October for variegation. Lots of controversy. It works for me. I have never lost one in the ground! I lost two in pots at $200 plus dollars each. Rookie move by over watering. Keep em on the dry side especially when they are young.

My biggest plant which is taller than my house is from Troy in Hilo (Novelty). All my others are California grown. The weather is very temperate here in Santa Barbara. Last winter it did get down to 36 one night and they didn't flinch. My Hawaiian Guava from the old Guava plantation in Kauai didn't like that.

Good luck!
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Old 11-15-2010, 09:29 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ae-Ae bananas on Hawaii Island

Guys,

While my plant is in the shade, I still ended up with those ugly brown patches when the humidity levels dropped dramatically. My plant looked great all summer, but I don't think it got enough water when we dried out. I'll be more careful and observent next year.

I do realize that more sun = a stronger plant, but I've seen some really ugly ae-ae's grown that way here. I guess my question is how to find the middle ground? If I had to grow it in full sun and look at those ugly brown patches all summer I don't think I'd bother with it. What would be the point? That certainly isn't attractive.

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Old 11-15-2010, 03:38 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ae-Ae bananas on Hawaii Island

Coast Crab;
This 'problem' of having the white mutant tissue browning out is inevitable. While the browning and dessication of this white tissue is sped up by growing in full sun, it will happen with age of the leaf no matter what lighting or humidity it is grown in. It can be slowed down by growing in filtered light and humidity but eventually it will still happen. It is the nature of the beast. This tissue has no protection from the harmful rays of the sun because of its lack of chlorophyll. It is inherently weak and is supported solely by the surrounding normal green tissue. Having a plant with more green tissue than white will of course look better than a plant with less green and more white tissue. Each plant will have differing amounts from the next as they are not genetic mutations. Planting in the ground in full sun and having a stronger healthier mat, (albeit a less "attractive" looking mat) will provide the grower with a sustainable mat of Aeae. Then you will have available suckers that can be removed and grown in a more controlled environment where you are able to provide the amount of light and humidity to slow the process of browning out on the leaves. A happy medium would be achieved either by this method of growing it as a containerized specimen, or if you are lucky enough, grown in the ground in an area where the majority of the specific conditions are met. Personally I think that they are most beautiful when grown as a containerized specimen before they grow too large, but this is also temporary as it is its nature to continue to grow into adult stage. If I had only one plant, I would grow it in the ground outside year round if possible. If I grew it in a pot and it died I wouldnt have any back up plants! This is the main reason why I suggested that it be grown in full sun, or at least, in full morning sun, or very bright outside filtered sunlight. If your leaves are exhibiting a disproportionate amount of white vs. green tissue you will have this problem no matter what. So, if you want a plant that doesnt brown out so much, choose a plant as your specimen with a little more green than white. As the leaves age and start to brown out, just cut them off, the plant will continue to grow new leaves to replace the older ones!

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Old 11-15-2010, 04:05 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ae-Ae bananas on Hawaii Island

Another suggestion; There are more and more newer varieties of variegated bananas available on the market now. The variegated dwarf Namwah in my opinion is spectacular and outshines the Aeae as far as the variegated patterns it can exhibit. The plant is shorter and its leaves more broad and produced in a rosette, similar to the appearance of a dwarf Cavendish. It suckers freely and will occasionally produce all white leaved plants which will continue to grow by themselves once removed from the parent. The fruit is also equally pleasing in appearance and much sweeter than Aeae. It doesnt grow too large and can be absolutely breathtaking as a containerized specimen. I have also noticed that it does not have the tendency to brown out as much as Aeae even though some of them have far more white tissue than green. I believe this is actually due to this 'white' tissue in Namwah having tiny cells of chlorophyll already present mixed in with this white tissue. As its leaves age, you will notice that they turn slightly more and more light green. You cannot notice this with the newer leaves, they appear clear white. Another variegated banana that is readily available is the Giant Tanna (AKA Tanee, Silver Bluggoe). This variety grows larger than Aeae and depending on the specific plant purchased can be equally mesmerizing as the Aeae. Its variegation is often produced in thin white striping as well as larger sectored patterns. It is a much more hardier and easier to grow variety than Aeae, but best in the ground regarding its adult height. Its also a very heavy sucker producer! So if you are interested in having a beautiful white variegated Musa in your collection, I would go with either of these 2 varieties. I think that most people want an Aeae solely due to its lingering hype and 'Royal' history and has a sort of mystique surrounding it. Photos of these 2 varieties can be viewed in my gallery.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:38 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ae-Ae bananas on Hawaii Island

Thanks, varig8 and everyone else for sharing so much helpful information and experiences!!!

To illustrate what I wrote about sun vs humidity, take a look at these pics.

Here's my plant in September; still hot, humid summer here (notice the amount of light it's in under my oak)...



And here's yesterday (11-15) morning, after a very dry October with almost no rain and very low humidity...



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Old 11-16-2010, 10:27 AM   #16 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Ae-Ae bananas on Hawaii Island

Quote:
Originally Posted by coast crab View Post
Thanks, varig8 and everyone else for sharing so much helpful information and experiences!!!

To illustrate what I wrote about sun vs humidity, take a look at these pics.

Here's my plant in September; still hot, humid summer here (notice the amount of light it's in under my oak)...



And here's yesterday (11-15) morning, after a very dry October with almost no rain and very low humidity...



Russell
Russell:
The same type of leaf damage due to water stress can happen even with the less 'exotic' varieties. I had a lot of leaf edge chlorosis this past summer here in Hilo on both my Dwarf Brazilian and Dwarf Cavendish varieties. The chlorosis is something I'd never seen before as it just browned the edges of the leaves and did not spread to the midrib. I thought, at first, that it was sunburn from the two huge solar flares that took place at that time but one of my fellow growers suggested that since my plants are spaced so close together, that it might be water stress and that I should try increasing my irrigation amount by about double. Well..I followed the suggestion and the problem did not appear on the new leaves.

Kele in Hawai'i

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Old 11-16-2010, 10:53 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ae-Ae bananas on Hawaii Island

Thanks Kele.

I do think moisture is the key here. My summers are rainy and the soil is rich and moist but doesn't stay wet, and drains quickly. Since my problem showed up when the humidity levels went through the floor I assumed it was the dry air. The other part of that is that I think it rained twice in October and I was doing a lot of sprinkler watering. That low humidity really sucks the moisture out of the ground!

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Old 11-16-2010, 12:48 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ae-Ae bananas on Hawaii Island

Any good sources on the variegated Dw. Namwah?
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Old 11-16-2010, 06:30 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ae-Ae bananas on Hawaii Island

The best Variegated Nam Wahs I got from Thailand on Ebay, the price has dropped significantly since I purchased mine years ago!
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:17 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ae-Ae bananas on Hawaii Island

Me to... to learn.
Hey Coast Crab; grew up off D.I.P.
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