Big decision, need Your opinion - Page 2

jmoore · 12-17-2011, 05:38 AM

I would vote for the single market, I think the idea of a bloc of independent nations trading together and allowing a free movement of people and goods is a fundamentally good thing and can only benefit everyone. This is not what we have though, what we have is an unelected polit bureau dictating how other nations should live and work. Interference in democratically elected governments by unelected idiots with a now defunct social ideal is unforgivable. Sovereign nations should be free to set and collect their own taxes and budgets without interference from anyone

And the Euro...don't get me started. Worst idea ever.

There is a lot of Britain bashing going on in Europe at the moment, which is starting to get on my nerves. Britain has been and always will be a trading nation. Anything that gets in the way of that Britain will resist. What is going on in Europe at the moment is putting the idea of a bloc of free trading nations at risk and that is something that Britain could never sign up to and neither should anybody else.

Dalmatiansoap · 12-17-2011, 06:29 AM

Thanks folks,
I was expecting a kind of debate here but not that it will get so serious.
Well, thats the one of many reasons I love this site

I feel a bit hendicaped here becouse I cant discusst politics and economy in English in I way I would like to.
So fare if its about me, Im OK this ways and only bad thing for me at the moment are customs and relative closed borders. On the other side, I still remember living in comunism and I know how to value freedom and free will and I want to secure that for my kids. I wouldnt want them to raise and live in closed and so conservative soc. as Croatia is, no matter what govermants says or do.
Haha Jack, no harm done, Im very well aware of that

Seweryn · 12-17-2011, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalmatiansoap;

On the other side, I still remember living in comunism and I know how to value freedom and free will and I want to secure that for my kids. I wouldnt want them to raise and live in closed and so conservative soc. as Croatia is, no matter what govermants says or do.

Ante, living in to much conservative country is as bad as to liberal.. one day you can wake up and realise that it's not your street/districet/country any more...

Anyway I hope I could visiting Croatia soon without the passport

(even if I actually has got the new one

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Daw;

Sew, there's a joke about Poles that you might know:
"What's the difference between Poland in Soviet Block and Poland in EU?
During the Soviet era, Poles were in Poland and the Polish government was in exile.
And how is it today? The Polish government is finally at home and the rest of the people are in exile."
All over the Europe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olafhenny;

Bad Joke!
Just in case you have not noticed, the Jaroslaw Kaczyński era is long past. He has been voted out of office c/w
all his obstructionist policies toward the EU. It is now the much more enlightened Donald Tusk era.

It is quiet good and clever joke

(obviously I know it Jack)
Just for explanation.
Actually it has not much common with Tusk or Kaczyński, it is about wave of emigration which had place couple years ago, when about 2 millions of Poles, what is less than 5% of the population moved abroad (mainly to British Islands, Netherlands and Scandinavia) and this station is compared to Polish government-in-exile times.

Jack Daw · 12-17-2011, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalmatiansoap

I wouldnt want them to raise and live in closed and so conservative soc. as Croatia is, no matter what govermants says or do.
Haha Jack, no harm done, Im very well aware of that

Mass media hype, economy... will force your people to enter the EU one way or another.
Whether it will be positive is doubtful.

They can study abroad now, you can move out of Croatia wherever you like, as long as you get the visa/residency and there's not much more an average person would need.

The other real problem is... how the referendum goes. Although I would be surprised, if the majority were agains the EU. We'll see in time. One way or another, you have a lot to be "looking forward" to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seweryn

Ante, living in to much conservative country is as bad as to liberal.. one day you can wake up and realise that it's not your street/districet/country any more...

Being said by one citizen from a very dogmatic, highly (many people say that ultra) religious, conservative country.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seweryn

Anyway I hope I could visiting Croatia soon without the passport

(even if I actually has got the new one

I don't know how about you (since we are both EU it should be the same)... in order to enter Croatia you don't need a passport... as an EU member all you need is a personal ID card (driver's license...). All the documents (including the driver's license) are just as valid in Croatia as in Poland.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seweryn

It is quiet good and clever joke

(obviously I know it Jack)

Yeah, I've heard it from so many Poles... mostly expats.

Its a national joke now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seweryn

Just for explanation.
Actually it has not much common with Tusk or Kaczyński, it is about wave of emigration which had place couple years ago, when about 2 millions of Poles, what is less than 5% of the population moved abroad (mainly to British Islands, Netherlands and Scandinavia) and this station is compared to Polish government-in-exile times.

No... don't open this door, or we are risking a forum flame war.
However 5% of Poland is 20% of Croatia, 40% of Slovakia,...

Seweryn · 12-17-2011, 12:04 PM

So my friends lay me telling that I can't go with them without pass

This joke was on top 3 yeras ago or so , now is passé

Olafhenny · 12-17-2011, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 51st state

You are completely incorrect. There is full and free movement of people across the EU, including the U.K. The Schengen agreement has been superceeeded and enschrined in EU law Directive 2004/38/EC on the right to move and reside freely. Hence why our Polish friends can come here, work and reside freely. ...(snip)

Schengen Convention [print sheet]
Last updated: 21/07/11 (Snip)
Excerpt:
This became an EU Convention in 1995 and since then has expanded to include all EU member states (except
the UK,Ireland), Romania,
Bulgaria and Cyprus, plus Norway, Iceland and Switzerland as signatories. Of the 10 states that joined the EU
in 2004, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Slovenia, Czech Republic and Slovakia joined the
Schengen zone in 2007. However, Romania and Bulgaria, who joined the EU in 2007,…

Source: EU Facts: The Schengen Convention

The above is very recent, as such things go, and talks about expansions of the agreement, but not, that
it has been superseded or replaced. (You had me there for a moment)

But I must concede, that as Island nations The UK and Ireland are not contiguous to any of the other
Schengen signatories and therefore a special case, which cannot be solely explained with “insular attitude”
f their citizens. In fact, all their outside borders are also borders of the Schengen Area.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalmatiansoap

I feel a bit hendicaped here becouse I cant discusst politics and economy in English in I way I would like to.

Let me assure you, that your English is a whole lot better than my Serbo-Croatian knowledge, which is nil.
If it was better than your English, we would probably use it instead. Since you “can” and I cannot, that
makes your skills superior.

Therefore just express yourself the best you can and we will understand, what you are saying, even if it
is not expressed as eloquently as you would do it in your own language.

I believe we all, and I for sure, do value your opinion and want to hear from you.

Dalmatiansoap · 01-21-2012, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalmatiansoap

Well, things goes like this, sometime in Januray we will have an important referendum here about joining European Union and Im still not clear with myself what to vote for.

"D" day is tomorrow.
This time tomorrow night I hope to know better where am I going to direct my gardenig career

Richard · 01-21-2012, 04:25 PM

Ante, I wish the best for you and the people of your country. I hope that regardless of the outcome, everyone has either a rainbow or a silver lining.

Jack Daw · 01-22-2012, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalmatiansoap

"D" day is tomorrow.
This time tomorrow night I hope to know better where am I going to direct my gardenig career

So, what's the outcome. Yay or nay?

Dalmatiansoap · 01-22-2012, 03:42 PM

Yay, 67%.
44% voters response.

momoese · 01-22-2012, 03:45 PM

Only 44%, is voting still open?

Dalmatiansoap · 01-22-2012, 03:54 PM

No, its allmost final, I think only citizents in America can still vote due the time difference but thats not going to change anything.

Richard · 01-22-2012, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalmatiansoap

Yay, 67%.
44% voters response.

Congratulations!

Jack Daw · 01-23-2012, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by momoese

Only 44%, is voting still open?

Funny. A minority of the state decided where the majority will be headed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalmatiansoap

No, its allmost final, I think only citizents in America can still vote due the time difference but thats not going to change anything.

My condolences to you and your countrymen.
The first news you, as an approved citizen might be glad to read:
EU Iran Sanctions News - EU Politics Today

Oil prices are going up. Food prices will follow soon after that.

Not to paint a devil on the roof, but your children will very likely thank you with emigration from Croatia in several years.

I watched the entire show today though. Looked exactly like that in here... years ago. And look how much progress we made.

Richard · 01-23-2012, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Daw

Funny. A minority of the state decided where the majority will be headed.

I really don't know whether joining is good, bad, or inconsequential for Croatia. The 56% who didn't vote either couldn't make it, or didn't think voting would make a difference. The latter group will have no valid reason to complain about it in coming years.

Jack Daw · 01-23-2012, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

I really don't know whether joining is good, bad, or inconsequential for Croatia. The 56% who didn't vote either couldn't make it, or didn't think voting would make a difference. The latter group will have no valid reason to complain about it in coming years.

The 56% will emigrate to France, Germany, UK, Spain and Italy.

orinoko · 01-24-2012, 05:50 AM

I would vote 'get us out the EU'..

Quote:

and of course, the UK is more prosperous than most former Warsaw Pact nations, as are all western European countries.

And we have paid billions into the EU. Also we don't like Brussels telling us what to do, who to allow in, what benefits people must have even if they have not done a stroke of work in the UK..

Brussels:
Take 20m more Immigrants...

UK

We are but a small Island, you take them.

Brussels

Take down the UK flag and put up ours..

UK...

Do one....Its our National flag.

Lets not even discuss 'the human rights law'.

We have enough to worry about without the EU.

Richard · 01-24-2012, 10:21 AM

Another disagreement rooted in overpopulation.

jmoore · 01-24-2012, 11:21 AM

Don't new members have to adopt the Euro as their currency too, rather than being able to opt out?

Only if it exists.

Jack Daw · 01-24-2012, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

Another disagreement rooted in overpopulation.

Richard, I don't understand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmoore

Don't new members have to adopt the Euro as their currency too, rather than being able to opt out?

Only if it exists.

I believe so. They will have limited voting capabilities as well, since it is no longer necessary that ALL the national governments agree on something. Even if they won't like it, they will have to adopt it for the sake of that currency.

12-17-2011, 05:38 AM	#21 (permalink)
jmoore jmoore 's Photo Gallery Location: Lowestoft, UK Zone: 8a Name: James Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 766 BananaBucks : 153,483 Feedback: 4 / 100% Said "Thanks" 192 Times Was Thanked 799 Times in 373 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 71 Times	Re: Big decision, need Your opinion I would vote for the single market, I think the idea of a bloc of independent nations trading together and allowing a free movement of people and goods is a fundamentally good thing and can only benefit everyone. This is not what we have though, what we have is an unelected polit bureau dictating how other nations should live and work. Interference in democratically elected governments by unelected idiots with a now defunct social ideal is unforgivable. Sovereign nations should be free to set and collect their own taxes and budgets without interference from anyone And the Euro...don't get me started. Worst idea ever. There is a lot of Britain bashing going on in Europe at the moment, which is starting to get on my nerves. Britain has been and always will be a trading nation. Anything that gets in the way of that Britain will resist. What is going on in Europe at the moment is putting the idea of a bloc of free trading nations at risk and that is something that Britain could never sign up to and neither should anybody else.

12-17-2011, 06:29 AM	#22 (permalink)
Dalmatiansoap Let there be light Dalmatiansoap's Photo Gallery Location: Makarska, Croatia Find me on the map! Zone: 9 Name: Ante Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 9,161 BananaBucks : 719,810 Feedback: 10 / 100% Said "Thanks" 6,508 Times Was Thanked 8,384 Times in 3,032 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 720 Times	Re: Big decision, need Your opinion Thanks folks, I was expecting a kind of debate here but not that it will get so serious. Well, thats the one of many reasons I love this site I feel a bit hendicaped here becouse I cant discusst politics and economy in English in I way I would like to. So fare if its about me, Im OK this ways and only bad thing for me at the moment are customs and relative closed borders. On the other side, I still remember living in comunism and I know how to value freedom and free will and I want to secure that for my kids. I wouldnt want them to raise and live in closed and so conservative soc. as Croatia is, no matter what govermants says or do. Haha Jack, no harm done, Im very well aware of that __________________ https://abnb.me/AXJty518xib

12-17-2011, 12:04 PM	#25 (permalink)
Seweryn Seweryn's Photo Gallery Location: Zamość/Józefów, Lesser Poland, Poland Find me on the map! Zone: 6a Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 477 BananaBucks : 18,139 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 48 Times Was Thanked 381 Times in 201 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Big decision, need Your opinion So my friends lay me telling that I can't go with them without pass This joke was on top 3 yeras ago or so , now is passé __________________

01-21-2012, 04:25 PM	#28 (permalink)
Richard un-Retired Richard's Photo Gallery Location: Vista, CA Find me on the map! Zone: USDA 10b Name: Richard Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 9,674 BananaBucks : 922,049 Feedback: 9 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,636 Times Was Thanked 12,537 Times in 4,719 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,685 Times	Re: Big decision, need Your opinion Ante, I wish the best for you and the people of your country. I hope that regardless of the outcome, everyone has either a rainbow or a silver lining. __________________ Back in business at plantsthatproduce.com

01-22-2012, 03:42 PM	#30 (permalink)
Dalmatiansoap Let there be light Dalmatiansoap's Photo Gallery Location: Makarska, Croatia Find me on the map! Zone: 9 Name: Ante Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 9,161 BananaBucks : 719,810 Feedback: 10 / 100% Said "Thanks" 6,508 Times Was Thanked 8,384 Times in 3,032 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 720 Times	Re: Big decision, need Your opinion Yay, 67%. 44% voters response. __________________ https://abnb.me/AXJty518xib

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01-22-2012, 03:45 PM	#31 (permalink)
momoese Banana grower momoese's Photo Gallery Find me on the map! Zone: zone 10 Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 7,593 BananaBucks : 10,590 Feedback: 9 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,763 Times Was Thanked 10,896 Times in 3,314 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 730 Times	Re: Big decision, need Your opinion Only 44%, is voting still open?

01-22-2012, 03:54 PM	#32 (permalink)
Dalmatiansoap Let there be light Dalmatiansoap's Photo Gallery Location: Makarska, Croatia Find me on the map! Zone: 9 Name: Ante Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 9,161 BananaBucks : 719,810 Feedback: 10 / 100% Said "Thanks" 6,508 Times Was Thanked 8,384 Times in 3,032 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 720 Times	Re: Big decision, need Your opinion No, its allmost final, I think only citizents in America can still vote due the time difference but thats not going to change anything. __________________ https://abnb.me/AXJty518xib

01-24-2012, 10:21 AM	#38 (permalink)
Richard un-Retired Richard's Photo Gallery Location: Vista, CA Find me on the map! Zone: USDA 10b Name: Richard Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 9,674 BananaBucks : 922,049 Feedback: 9 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,636 Times Was Thanked 12,537 Times in 4,719 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,685 Times	Re: Big decision, need Your opinion Another disagreement rooted in overpopulation. __________________ Back in business at plantsthatproduce.com

01-24-2012, 11:21 AM	#39 (permalink)
jmoore jmoore 's Photo Gallery Location: Lowestoft, UK Zone: 8a Name: James Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 766 BananaBucks : 153,483 Feedback: 4 / 100% Said "Thanks" 192 Times Was Thanked 799 Times in 373 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 71 Times	Re: Big decision, need Your opinion Don't new members have to adopt the Euro as their currency too, rather than being able to opt out? Only if it exists.

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