What Is Better ? & More Importantly Why ?

PR-Giants · 12-08-2012, 10:52 AM

What is a better source of nutrients for a Banana Plant.

Manure or Grass Clippings, and why ?

I'm not anti-manure, although I am pro-grass, for many reasons aside from nutrients.

I know a banana will quickly grow on a slab of concrete without any soil,

using rocks to stabilize the base and only grass to fertilize the plant.

Grass clipping breakdown fast enough to be a useful source of nutrients for a young plant.

I might be completely wrong, but this is my line of reasoning.

A grazing animal eats the grass and removes some nutrients, but what do they

add to their manure that makes it more beneficial than the grass that they ate ?

JodoGarden · 12-08-2012, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR-Giants

What is a better source of nutrients for a Banana Plant.

Manure or Grass Clippings, and why ?

I'm not anti-manure, although I am pro-grass, for many reasons aside from nutrients.

I know a banana will quickly grow on a slab of concrete without any soil,

using rocks to stabilize the base and only grass to fertilize the plant.

Grass clipping breakdown fast enough to be a useful source of nutrients for a young plant.

I might be completely wrong, but this is my line of reasoning.

A grazing animal eats the grass and removes some nutrients, but what do they

add to their manure that makes it more beneficial than the grass that they ate ?

I'm not saying I wouldn't use grass clippings... but one reason I refrain from doing it is that I would potentially be adding a lot of grass and weed seed to my soil. I know you mentioned an example that didn't include soil, but that's my reasoning. Using composted manure (which I just put on my plants today) adds immediate organic matter and nutrients to the soil... here in FL that's a big deal for a bunch of reasons. Manure is basically just grass already broken down with nutrients that are immediately available to the plants. Adding the grass by itself means you have to wait for microorganisms to break it down. A lot of grass can cause anaerobic activity. Maybe b/c you are tropical that isn't that much of an issue?

Olafhenny · 12-08-2012, 07:26 PM

I have read some time ago a report, which ascribes fertilizing value of grass clippings equal to
that of steer manure. They are both high on nitrogen and other nutrients. I presume, that they
compared both in composted state.

Needless to say, that I compost all the clippings of my small lawn. On caveat though: Layers
of grass clippings should always be interspersed with layers of sand or sandy soil.

Composting the clippings only or too thick layers of them leads to a gumbo, which does not let air
in or through and in extreme cases causes anaerobic digestion as Jodo suggests, - and stench.

Being friendly to earth worms in your compost helps stirring it up and adds to the quality of the product.

sunfish · 12-08-2012, 07:32 PM

Grass clippings have an NPK of 4 - 0.5 - 2

NPK Values of Animal Manures N Nitrogen % P Phosphorus % K Potassium
(Potash) %
Cow Manure 0.6 0.4 0.5
Horse Manure 0.7 0.3 0.6
Pig Manure 0.8 0.7 0.5
Chicken Manure 1.1 0.8 0.5
Sheep Manure 0.7 0.3 0.9
Rabbit Manure 2.4 1.4 0.6

trebor · 12-08-2012, 07:39 PM

Im thinking Manure is grass or grain broken down or composted in the animals digestive system. Giving the advantage of not having to wait or compost the actual green blades in a pile or container. Benefits should be pretty much the same either one you use.
I've grown potatoes in bail of hay. Using different bails from different location gave me slightly different results. Growing potatoes in soil and adding manure was about the same . My soil here being sand so any nutriments are usually coming from ME.
I think its safe to say you probably get more Nitrogen from manure because of the urea in the stool. Coming from contamination or just naturally mixed in when the animal drops the stool ..
I also agree that grass clippings are good to use . But them weed seeds at times can be a killer... The composting allows the seed to sprout and be consumed, broken down, becoming useful nutrients ..
OK that said I feel manure is a better addition than grass .. I aslo depends on where or what you are growing.. Musa might do well on grass, But I feel Musa would do better on manure. As long as we are talking about adding it to the soil. Either one used alone as a substrate would need to be tested..
I have over 20 years of hydroponic gardening under my belt. I know things will in all kinds of substrate and feeding them all different kinds of fertilizers works well also . I have always noticed urea products enhanced the production.. Being there is a level of urea in manure I again think it better ..
manure = pre composted grass with the added benefit of urea Thats my .02

Olafhenny · 12-08-2012, 07:40 PM

Like always, Tony can be relied on to come up with the facts.

JodoGarden · 12-08-2012, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trebor

Im thinking Manure is grass or grain broken down or composted in the animals digestive system. Giving the advantage of not having to wait or compost the actual green blades in a pile or container. Benefits should be pretty much the same either one you use.
I've grown potatoes in bail of hay. Using different bails from different location gave me slightly different results. Growing potatoes in soil and adding manure was about the same . My soil here being sand so any nutriments are usually coming from ME.
I think its safe to say you probably get more Nitrogen from manure because of the urea in the stool. Coming from contamination or just naturally mixed in when the animal drops the stool ..
I also agree that grass clippings are good to use . But them weed seeds at times can be a killer... The composting allows the seed to sprout and be consumed, broken down, becoming useful nutrients ..
OK that said I feel manure is a better addition than grass .. I aslo depends on where or what you are growing.. Musa might do well on grass, But I feel Musa would do better on manure. As long as we are talking about adding it to the soil. Either one used alone as a substrate would need to be tested..
I have over 20 years of hydroponic gardening under my belt. I know things will in all kinds of substrate and feeding them all different kinds of fertilizers works well also . I have always noticed urea products enhanced the production.. Being there is a level of urea in manure I again think it better ..
manure = pre composted grass with the added benefit of urea Thats my .02

As a side note... I am very interested in trying hydro due to the many issues with FL gardening. I have seen a lot of different ways of doing it. Any advice? Different thread needed?

PR-Giants · 12-08-2012, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JodoGarden

As a side note... I am very interested in trying hydro due to the many issues with FL gardening. I have seen a lot of different ways of doing it. Any advice? Different thread needed?

I can see the day when all commercial banana farms are hydroponic, but I expected to see it before today.
Everything I have seen with growing bananas hydroponically is a vast improvement over conventional growing.

JodoGarden · 12-08-2012, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR-Giants

I can see the day when all commercial banana farms are hydroponic, but I expected to see it before today.
Everything I have seen with growing bananas hydroponically is a vast improvement over conventional growing.

Interesting... I want to try hydro for other plants though... mostly veg that suffers from nematode and 4-legged critter damage. Hydro seems like the best and most direct way to overcome some of the issues.

PR-Giants · 12-10-2012, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trebor

I have always noticed urea products enhanced the production.. Being there is a level of urea in manure I again think it better ..
manure = pre composted grass with the added benefit of urea

Urea or CO(NH2)2 + H2O + urease = 2NH3 + CO2

Grass + H2O = a H2O solution with NH3 + other things

I would recommend doing it the opposite way of Olaf because by using the

anaerobic approach you will produce a low level H2O solution of NH3 in a few days.

There are hundreds of ways to do this without the odor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olafhenny

I have read some time ago a report, which ascribes fertilizing value of grass clippings equal to
that of steer manure. They are both high on nitrogen and other nutrients. I presume, that they
compared both in composted state.

Needless to say, that I compost all the clippings of my small lawn. On caveat though: Layers
of grass clippings should always be interspersed with layers of sand or sandy soil.

Composting the clippings only or too thick layers of them leads to a gumbo, which does not let air
in or through and in extreme cases causes anaerobic digestion as Jodo suggests, - and stench.

Being friendly to earth worms in your compost helps stirring it up and adds to the quality of the product.

PR-Giants · 12-11-2012, 04:58 PM

These are two examples of a slow aerobic process that can be used to both water and feed several banana plants.

They are simply two containers with the top and bottom open, water and grass clippings are added from the top.

The containers were filled with only grass clippings.

The white colored things are active banana roots living above ground level.

32 Gallon Version

aug 25

oct 24

The container was lifted for the next two photos

dec 11 - Left

dec 11 - Front

5 Gallon Version

oct 23

oct 23

The container was lifted for the next three photos

dec 10 - Left

dec 10 - Front

dec 10 - Right

Olafhenny · 04-07-2013, 11:16 AM

Hi K.J.,

are you telling us, that you stack that beside each of your banana plants and the stuff oozes
into the ground nourishing the plant and the roots grow then into the contraption as well?

PR-Giants · 04-07-2013, 12:47 PM

Simple and Effective, but not Elegant.

12-08-2012, 10:52 AM	#1 (permalink)
PR-Giants Commercial Grower Location: Florida & Greater Antilles Find me on the map! Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 4,544 BananaBucks : 3,831 Feedback: 16 / 100% Said "Thanks" 2,900 Times Was Thanked 12,463 Times in 3,620 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 3,204 Times	What Is Better ? & More Importantly Why ? What is a better source of nutrients for a Banana Plant. Manure or Grass Clippings, and why ? I'm not anti-manure, although I am pro-grass, for many reasons aside from nutrients. I know a banana will quickly grow on a slab of concrete without any soil, using rocks to stabilize the base and only grass to fertilize the plant. Grass clipping breakdown fast enough to be a useful source of nutrients for a young plant. I might be completely wrong, but this is my line of reasoning. A grazing animal eats the grass and removes some nutrients, but what do they add to their manure that makes it more beneficial than the grass that they ate ? __________________ PR-Giants Photo Gallery 15,000+ Varieties

12-08-2012, 07:26 PM	#3 (permalink)
Olafhenny Olafhenny's Photo Gallery Location: Penticton, BC, Okanagan Valley, Canada Find me on the map! Zone: Hardiness Zone 6 Name: Olaf Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,705 BananaBucks : 246,197 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 2,050 Times Was Thanked 2,012 Times in 876 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 77 Times	Re: What Is Better ? & More Importantly Why ? I have read some time ago a report, which ascribes fertilizing value of grass clippings equal to that of steer manure. They are both high on nitrogen and other nutrients. I presume, that they compared both in composted state. Needless to say, that I compost all the clippings of my small lawn. On caveat though: Layers of grass clippings should always be interspersed with layers of sand or sandy soil. Composting the clippings only or too thick layers of them leads to a gumbo, which does not let air in or through and in extreme cases causes anaerobic digestion as Jodo suggests, - and stench. Being friendly to earth worms in your compost helps stirring it up and adds to the quality of the product. __________________ The reason I joined this forum was to share experiences, my own and those of others and to learn from them.

12-08-2012, 07:32 PM	#4 (permalink)
sunfish Banned sunfish's Photo Gallery Location: San Diego Find me on the map! Zone: 9-11 Name: Tony Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 18,429 BananaBucks : 948,037 Feedback: 8 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,210 Times Was Thanked 20,591 Times in 7,760 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2,716 Times	Re: What Is Better ? & More Importantly Why ? Grass clippings have an NPK of 4 - 0.5 - 2 NPK Values of Animal Manures N Nitrogen % P Phosphorus % K Potassium (Potash) % Cow Manure 0.6 0.4 0.5 Horse Manure 0.7 0.3 0.6 Pig Manure 0.8 0.7 0.5 Chicken Manure 1.1 0.8 0.5 Sheep Manure 0.7 0.3 0.9 Rabbit Manure 2.4 1.4 0.6

12-08-2012, 07:39 PM	#5 (permalink)
trebor trebor's Photo Gallery Location: Florida Find me on the map! Zone: POMPANO BEACH, FL Zone 10 Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 759 BananaBucks : 108,719 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 845 Times Was Thanked 1,329 Times in 483 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 256 Times	Re: What Is Better ? & More Importantly Why ? Im thinking Manure is grass or grain broken down or composted in the animals digestive system. Giving the advantage of not having to wait or compost the actual green blades in a pile or container. Benefits should be pretty much the same either one you use. I've grown potatoes in bail of hay. Using different bails from different location gave me slightly different results. Growing potatoes in soil and adding manure was about the same . My soil here being sand so any nutriments are usually coming from ME. I think its safe to say you probably get more Nitrogen from manure because of the urea in the stool. Coming from contamination or just naturally mixed in when the animal drops the stool .. I also agree that grass clippings are good to use . But them weed seeds at times can be a killer... The composting allows the seed to sprout and be consumed, broken down, becoming useful nutrients .. OK that said I feel manure is a better addition than grass .. I aslo depends on where or what you are growing.. Musa might do well on grass, But I feel Musa would do better on manure. As long as we are talking about adding it to the soil. Either one used alone as a substrate would need to be tested.. I have over 20 years of hydroponic gardening under my belt. I know things will in all kinds of substrate and feeding them all different kinds of fertilizers works well also . I have always noticed urea products enhanced the production.. Being there is a level of urea in manure I again think it better .. manure = pre composted grass with the added benefit of urea Thats my .02 __________________ If ya can't eat it, it ain't growing in my back yard !

12-08-2012, 07:40 PM	#6 (permalink)
Olafhenny Olafhenny's Photo Gallery Location: Penticton, BC, Okanagan Valley, Canada Find me on the map! Zone: Hardiness Zone 6 Name: Olaf Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,705 BananaBucks : 246,197 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 2,050 Times Was Thanked 2,012 Times in 876 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 77 Times	Re: What Is Better ? & More Importantly Why ? Like always, Tony can be relied on to come up with the facts. __________________ The reason I joined this forum was to share experiences, my own and those of others and to learn from them.

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12-11-2012, 04:58 PM	#11 (permalink)
PR-Giants Commercial Grower Location: Florida & Greater Antilles Find me on the map! Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 4,544 BananaBucks : 3,831 Feedback: 16 / 100% Said "Thanks" 2,900 Times Was Thanked 12,463 Times in 3,620 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 3,204 Times	Re: What Is Better ? & More Importantly Why ? These are two examples of a slow aerobic process that can be used to both water and feed several banana plants. They are simply two containers with the top and bottom open, water and grass clippings are added from the top. The containers were filled with only grass clippings. The white colored things are active banana roots living above ground level. 32 Gallon Version aug 25 oct 24 The container was lifted for the next two photos dec 11 - Left dec 11 - Front 5 Gallon Version oct 23 oct 23 The container was lifted for the next three photos dec 10 - Left dec 10 - Front dec 10 - Right __________________ PR-Giants Photo Gallery 15,000+ Varieties Last edited by PR-Giants : 12-14-2012 at 08:02 PM.

04-07-2013, 11:16 AM	#12 (permalink)
Olafhenny Olafhenny's Photo Gallery Location: Penticton, BC, Okanagan Valley, Canada Find me on the map! Zone: Hardiness Zone 6 Name: Olaf Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,705 BananaBucks : 246,197 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 2,050 Times Was Thanked 2,012 Times in 876 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 77 Times	Re: What Is Better ? & More Importantly Why ? Hi K.J., are you telling us, that you stack that beside each of your banana plants and the stuff oozes into the ground nourishing the plant and the roots grow then into the contraption as well? __________________ The reason I joined this forum was to share experiences, my own and those of others and to learn from them.

04-07-2013, 12:47 PM	#13 (permalink)
PR-Giants Commercial Grower Location: Florida & Greater Antilles Find me on the map! Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 4,544 BananaBucks : 3,831 Feedback: 16 / 100% Said "Thanks" 2,900 Times Was Thanked 12,463 Times in 3,620 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 3,204 Times	Re: What Is Better ? & More Importantly Why ? Simple and Effective, but not Elegant. __________________ PR-Giants Photo Gallery 15,000+ Varieties

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