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Banana Plant Soil, Additives, and Fertilizer This forum is an area where you may discuss the soil to grow banana plants in, as well as soil additives such as teas, composts, manures, fertilizers and related topics.


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Old 05-10-2012, 07:30 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Default Re: Water Soluble Banana Fuel Dosages

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Originally Posted by caliboy1994 View Post
... My Ice Cream plant has an emerging leaf that's tangled, though. Could that be from the fertilizer?
Not in my experience.

I have run out of inventory of the 20-5-30 Fertilizer for Fruiting Bananas, aka "Banana Fuel". It will be awhile before I restock, since the factory only accepts pallet-size orders.

Based on input from a number of growers in the subtropics (continental U.S. excepting south Florida), I am considering updating the formula to 20-10-30. Depending on your location in the U.S., you might be able to find this formula in stock at an agricultural supply store (not at garden centers).
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Old 05-10-2012, 07:34 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Default Re: Water Soluble Banana Fuel Dosages

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... I am currently in the process of moving my small basjoos (10 inch pstems) that I have had for a couple of weeks, from containers (for sun acclimation) to the ground. How soon after putting them in the ground should I start fertilizing? I haven't used any fertilizer yet, save for some bone meal. (which I have read is pointless to use this early, is that true BTW?) Anything else I should consider?
Thanks again!
Any time you like, provided you follow the dosage directions sent with the package.

The 28-8-18 is a complete fertilizer. I don't recommend adding other nutrients with it. Maintenance dosages of hormones or soil conditioners would be ok.
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Old 05-11-2012, 11:37 AM   #43 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Water Soluble Banana Fuel Dosages

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Originally Posted by caliboy1994 View Post
My Ice Cream plant has an emerging leaf that's tangled, though. Could that be from the fertilizer?
Yes and no. If you didn't fertilize as much or as heavily, you wouldn't get that symptom, but you also wouldn't get as much growth. On the other hand, if you plants weren't already lacking some micronutrient, you wouldn't have this problem when you fertilize. Lot's of us have experienced this problem with various fertilizers including banana fuel. (See the We Be Bananas website for photos of over fertilizing symptoms.)

My understanding is this:
Plants need "macronutrients" (N, P, and K) and "micronutrients" (e.g., Cu, Ca, B) to build new tissues. In bananas at least, growth seems to be dictated most by the macronutrients, water, and temperature. If you pour on the water and NPK, they grow faster (if it is warm). But for proper tissue formation, the micronutrients need to be incorporated into the tissues, too. The problem is that some of them (e.g., Ca and B) are transported into the growing tissues at much slower rates than N, P, and K. If they can't be incorporated fast enough, you can end up with tangled, deformed, and chlorotic leaves. If you know which micronutrient you are missing, you can add it, either to the soil or via foliar feeding, and the symptoms will resolve by the next leaf or two. Nick pointed out that even when your soil appears to have adequate levels of some micronutrient (I think it was Ca in his case), soil conditions (temperature, wetness, pH) can make it difficult for the plant to take up that element.

In the lack of information about which micronutrient is causing your problem, a broad spectrum micronutrient foliar spray may solve it. Don't haphazardly throw on individual micronutrients because that can exacerbate the problem. I learned that lesson.

Regarding Banana Fuel (since that is what this thread is about), I think that if you had ideal soil pH and consistently used that fertilizer, you probably wouldn't have this problem. But your soil has a "history" prior to using it and so may have specific micronutrient or pH problems that keep the micronutrients in that product from being incorporated into the banana plant tissues fast enough to keep up with the growth forced by the addition of NPK.
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Old 05-12-2012, 04:13 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Default Re: Water Soluble Banana Fuel Dosages

I just fertilized again today. Each of my plants except the Mysore got a half cup, and Mysore got 1/3 of a cup. I looked at the ingredients of Banana Fuel and noticed that it does have trace amounts of these micronutrients. However, I don't know what my soil pH is. Maybe I should save up for a pH meter to test it. The leaf finally emerged, and it was shorter than the previous leaves and part of it was chlorotic while another part was very thin and tore off. Other than that, the leaf was normal. I'm going to see what happens with the next leaf and then determine whether I need to do anything else.
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Old 05-12-2012, 04:45 PM   #45 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Water Soluble Banana Fuel Dosages

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Originally Posted by caliboy1994 View Post
I just fertilized again today. Each of my plants except the Mysore got a half cup, and Mysore got 1/3 of a cup. I looked at the ingredients of Banana Fuel and noticed that it does have trace amounts of these micronutrients. However, I don't know what my soil pH is. Maybe I should save up for a pH meter to test it. The leaf finally emerged, and it was shorter than the previous leaves and part of it was chlorotic while another part was very thin and tore off. Other than that, the leaf was normal. I'm going to see what happens with the next leaf and then determine whether I need to do anything else.
I think your using way to much fert.at one time. I could be wrong.
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Old 05-12-2012, 05:27 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Default Re: Water Soluble Banana Fuel Dosages

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I just fertilized again today. Each of my plants except the Mysore got a half cup, and Mysore got 1/3 of a cup.
That seems about right, provided (a) you diluted it in enough water to drench the roots and (b) they have significant root space; i.e., 1/2 to 1 cubic yard of root volume each. The picture I have seen of your Mysore in the lawn does NOT have anywhere near that, maybe 1-4 cubic feet.

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(Maximum) BANANA FUEL DOSAGES DURING ACTIVE GROWTH SEASONS:
Very Young Plants, TC's: 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of water every watering.
Young Plant in 2 gallon pot: 2 tablespoons per month.
Plant (not juvenile) in 10 to 20 gallon pot: 1/4 cup per month.
Plant in ground with significant root space: 3/4 cup per month.
Hydroponics @ 150 ppm K: 1 Tbs per 6.5 gallons of water.
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Old 05-12-2012, 09:18 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Default Re: Water Soluble Banana Fuel Dosages

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That seems about right, provided (a) you diluted it in enough water to drench the roots and (b) they have significant root space; i.e., 1/2 to 1 cubic yard of root volume each. The picture I have seen of your Mysore in the lawn does NOT have anywhere near that, maybe 1-4 cubic feet.
Do you think it would harm the plant?
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Old 05-12-2012, 10:07 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Default Re: Water Soluble Banana Fuel Dosages

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Do you think it would harm the plant?
I think you would have seen some evidence of "burn" along leaf edges by now. Using the Mysore as an example, par back the dosage to 1/4 cup per month until the base diameter is 6" and you've removed the lawn back at least a two-foot radius from the plant.

The lawn near the plant must currently be growing like crazy!
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Old 05-13-2012, 11:00 AM   #49 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Water Soluble Banana Fuel Dosages

Richard,
I received my banana fuel yesterday. I have some questions about the application rates/plant sizes. For us newbies, can you clarify some physical characteristics to look for to judge what size plant is being referred to in the rate table? For example, in the posts above where you refer to root space and base diameter, this kind of information is very helpful for me. How big would be a "Small or potted plant" be? I think my new baby plants fall into this category (12-14 inches tall overall), or would they still be considered TC plantlets? I also have 3 ice creams that are about 3ft tall overall (2-3 inch diameter base). Would they still be considered Small Plants? Or something in between? Should I stick with the small plant dosage until the base diameter is 6 inches?
Thanks!

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Old 05-13-2012, 08:52 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Default Re: Water Soluble Banana Fuel Dosages

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For us newbies, can you clarify some physical characteristics to look for to judge what size plant is being referred to in the rate table?
Sure

(Maximum) BANANA FUEL DOSAGES DURING ACTIVE GROWTH SEASONS:
  • Very Young Plants, TC's. These have 1 inch or less diameter base, with little or no corm (bulb) development. Dosage: 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of water every watering.
  • Young Plant in 2 gallon pot. This has a diameter of about 1.5 inches or more. It might have been a TC that has been successfully grown for a couple of months, or a "pup" with at least a tennis-ball size corm that has been cut off a mother plant. The pstem height (not counting leaves) will be 12 to 18 inches or more. Dosage : 2 tablespoons per month, diluted in enough water to reach the roots.
  • Plant (not juvenile) in 10 to 20 gallon pot, or in the ground with a similar amount of root space. This plant has at least a 3 or 4-inch diameter base. Dosage: 1/4 cup per month, diluted in enough water to reach the roots.
  • Plant in ground with significant root space; i.e., 1/2 to 1 cubic yard of root volume. Maximum dosage: 3/4 cup per month, diluted in enough water to reach the roots.
  • Hydroponics. Dosage (regardless of plant size): 1 Tbs per 6.5 gallons of water.
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Old 05-13-2012, 09:20 PM   #51 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Water Soluble Banana Fuel Dosages

Thanks Richard! That's exactly the info I was looking for! Glad I asked too, I would have overdosed my little ones!

Thanks again!
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Old 05-16-2012, 06:33 PM   #52 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Water Soluble Banana Fuel Dosages

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Those are recommendations for these formulas, regardless of the supplier:
15-5-30, 15-10-30 Urea Free, and 20-5-30.

All of the above are 30% potash. I believe you have 28-8-18? In that case I recommend following the instructions I attached to the bag.

Yes, this is what I'm using.



Was it a fruiting banana variety, and what was the N-P-K of the Miracle Grow?

Richard- The instructions on the bag have faded almost completely now. Can you repeat the dosages for my bananas that I'm now planting for the season after inside wintering as dormant plants? Thanks.
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Old 05-16-2012, 11:33 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Richard- The instructions on the bag have faded almost completely now. Can you repeat the dosages for my bananas that I'm now planting for the season after inside wintering as dormant plants? Thanks.
Sure, just use the instructions I gave on 5/13 to mrthegreek.
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:37 AM   #54 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Water Soluble Banana Fuel Dosages

That;s easy!
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Old 05-20-2012, 10:15 AM   #55 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Water Soluble Banana Fuel Dosages

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Sure

(Maximum) BANANA FUEL DOSAGES DURING ACTIVE GROWTH SEASONS:
  • Very Young Plants, TC's. These have 1 inch or less diameter base, with little or no corm (bulb) development. Dosage: 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of water every watering.
  • Young Plant in 2 gallon pot. This has a diameter of about 1.5 inches or more. It might have been a TC that has been successfully grown for a couple of months, or a "pup" with at least a tennis-ball size corm that has been cut off a mother plant. The pstem height (not counting leaves) will be 12 to 18 inches or more. Dosage : 2 tablespoons per month, diluted in enough water to reach the roots.
  • Plant (not juvenile) in 10 to 20 gallon pot, or in the ground with a similar amount of root space. This plant has at least a 3 or 4-inch diameter base. Dosage: 1/4 cup per month, diluted in enough water to reach the roots.
  • Plant in ground with significant root space; i.e., 1/2 to 1 cubic yard of root volume. Maximum dosage: 3/4 cup per month, diluted in enough water to reach the roots.
  • Hydroponics. Dosage (regardless of plant size): 1 Tbs per 6.5 gallons of water.
Hi Richard,

I'm posting for the first time today, even though I've been avidly reading this site since December 2008.

I realize this thread is about the Grow More formula and I am planning on ordering some of the Grow More fertilizer for fruiting bananas when available. In the meantime, I have some of the Stokes Tropicals Banana Fertilizer- Controlled released fertilizer (3-month Formula) Analysis: 6-2-12 with minors.

I can figure the dosages, I think, for fruiting bananas, but there's one thing that makes me unsure. Theirs is a controlled release formula which would have to alter the situation somewhat. With the Grow More, it's released quickly, so I know, based on your post, what I would use and how often. How would this change for a formula that is released over three months.

I'm just unsure how the controlled release changes things, if it does. I would appreciate any insight you, or anyone else, can offer.

John
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Old 05-20-2012, 04:45 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Default Re: Water Soluble Banana Fuel Dosages

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I'm just unsure how the controlled release changes things, if it does. I would appreciate any insight you, or anyone else, can offer.
John
Consider a dwarf or standard (not super-dwarf or giant) fruiting banana planted in the ground with plenty of root volume (approximately 1 cu.yd. or 200 gallon). Suppose this banana is mature in size but still 3-4 months or so away from fruiting. In the year prior to reaching this stage, you will want to have applied NET 1 lb of N and 1.5 lb of K. Since the 6-2-12 is limited in N we will calculate with K: 1.5 lbs / 12% = 12.5 Lbs during the 1 year period above and thereafter since the corm will have grown to the appropriate capacity.

For smaller root volumes and pots, scale the dosage by volume. So for example, a fruiting banana in a 20 gallon pot would have the capacity for 1/10th that amount.
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Old 05-20-2012, 08:25 PM   #57 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Water Soluble Banana Fuel Dosages

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Consider a dwarf or standard (not super-dwarf or giant) fruiting banana planted in the ground with plenty of root volume (approximately 1 cu.yd. or 200 gallon). Suppose this banana is mature in size but still 3-4 months or so away from fruiting. In the year prior to reaching this stage, you will want to have applied NET 1 lb of N and 1.5 lb of K. Since the 6-2-12 is limited in N we will calculate with K: 1.5 lbs / 12% = 12.5 Lbs during the 1 year period above and thereafter since the corm will have grown to the appropriate capacity.

For smaller root volumes and pots, scale the dosage by volume. So for example, a fruiting banana in a 20 gallon pot would have the capacity for 1/10th that amount.
Thanks. That helps a lot. I'm gathering that the only difference the timed-release aspect of my current fertilizer causes vs. one not time-released is in when I fertilize. What I mean is that if I want to taper off late in the season to prepare my bananas for over-wintering, then I'll need to start tapering off earlier than I would with one like the Grow More.

I am seriously considering getting a 1000w Metal Halide lighting system to allow me to still get some growth over the winter on these. That should reduce some of the need to taper off the fertilizer. I know this won't be nearly as bright as natural sunlight, but I should at least get some moderate growth over the winter and put me a leg up for possibly getting fruit next year when I move them back outdoors. At least that['s the plan anyway.

Thanks again for the information. I appreciate it.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:04 PM   #58 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Water Soluble Banana Fuel Dosages

One more question (heh heh). Since for some of my plants I'm dosing a mat of 6 to 16 plants in various stages of development, what should I use? 1/4 cup seems much too low for the mat (basjoo). However, I don't want to burn the younguns.
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Old 05-20-2012, 10:27 PM   #59 (permalink)
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One more question (heh heh). Since for some of my plants I'm dosing a mat of 6 to 16 plants in various stages of development, what should I use? 1/4 cup seems much too low for the mat (basjoo). However, I don't want to burn the younguns.
Consider the total volume of the corm and roots that comprises the mat, and scale appropriately. It is that maturity of the corm that matters.
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Old 05-20-2012, 11:18 PM   #60 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Water Soluble Banana Fuel Dosages

That makes sense. Thanks!
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