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Banana Plant Soil, Additives, and Fertilizer This forum is an area where you may discuss the soil to grow banana plants in, as well as soil additives such as teas, composts, manures, fertilizers and related topics.


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Old 08-26-2009, 02:09 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Terminoligy

Richard, do you agree with this information from Wikipedia?

Quote:
Mixed definitions of 'organic'

There can be confusion as to the veracity of the term 'organic' when applied to agricultural systems and fertilizer. The problem is one of confusion of terminology between agricultural and chemical disciplines.

Minerals such as mined rock phosphate, sulfate of potash and limestone are also considered organic fertilizers, although they contain no organic (carbon) molecules. Some ambiguity in the usage of the term organic exists; however, it is simple to differentiate with a separation between the scientific and colloqial uses (as in velocity in common usage (Speed) and physics usage(Velocity)--see Velocity (disambiguation)).

Synthetic fertilizers, such as urea and urea formaldehyde, are organic in the sense of the organic chemistry definition of organic, can be supplied organically (agriculturally), but when manufactured as a pure chemical is not organic under organic certification standards[28][29].

Naturally mined powdered limestone[30], mined rock phosphate and sodium nitrate, are inorganic (in a chemical sense) in that they contain no carbon molecules, and are energetically-intensive to harvest, but are approved for organic agriculture in minimal amounts[30][31][32].

The common thread that can be seen through these examples is that organic agriculture defines itself through minimal processing (e.g. via chemical energy such as petroleum—see Haber process), as well as being naturally-occurring (as is, or via natural biological processing such as the composting process).
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Old 08-26-2009, 02:29 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Terminoligy

No, especially since many water soluble fertilizers are simply scooped from the ground, sorted on size, and then sold in bags. No more (and often less) processing than compost sold in a bag. Are you gardening organically?
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Old 08-26-2009, 02:35 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Terminoligy

Ok let's simplify, do you agree with this?

Quote:
Some ambiguity in the usage of the term organic exists; however, it is simple to differentiate with a separation between the scientific and colloqial uses (as in velocity in common usage (Speed) and physics usage(Velocity)--see Velocity (disambiguation)).
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Old 08-26-2009, 08:38 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Terminoligy

Mitchel,
Ironically I drove within a few blocks of your home earlier today!

From your user title and many posts throughout this site it is plain to see that you are enthralled with what advertising agencies term "organic lifestyle". And since you have also stated that you have little understanding of the biochemistry of plant nutrition, this "organic lifestyle" is a matter of faith for you. So be it, I have an equally hollow faith in the origin of conifers.

It is also plain for everyone to see that I strongly object to "organic lifestyle" marketing and prostilization. For beginning gardeners, the ambiguous terminology and often vacuous phrases lead to misunderstandings, polarized decision-making, and imprudent purchases. A better approach is to use the established vocabulary and content of entry-level horticultural courses at accredited colleges. This way people can make informed decisions about the needs of their plants, the results they want, environmentally responsible choices, and economically prudent resources and products.
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Old 08-26-2009, 09:02 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momoese View Post
Ok let's simplify, do you agree with this?
And?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard View Post
Mitchel,
Ironically I drove within a few blocks of your home earlier today!

From your user title and many posts throughout this site it is plain to see that you are enthralled with what advertising agencies term "organic lifestyle". And since you have also stated that you have little understanding of the biochemistry of plant nutrition, this "organic lifestyle" is a matter of faith for you. So be it, I have an equally hollow faith in the origin of conifers.

I
FYI, I've been growing organically since I was 6 years old, long before I moved to this neighborhood and long before any organic lifestyle was being promoted. Anything else smart guy? You're about as full full of sh!t as a Christmas turkey.
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Old 08-26-2009, 09:27 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Terminoligy

Thats just to funny mitchell. what do you guys use for fertilizer if you dont use compost or manure.
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Old 08-26-2009, 10:09 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Terminology

Quote:
Originally Posted by momoese View Post
Anything else ... ?
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Old 08-26-2009, 11:43 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Terminoligy

Shannon, he uses compost & manure but does not use the chem ferts such as miracle grow etc.
What's up with the pic? That reminds me of Richard responding to Harvey with blank emails. I think I'm outa here...too weird.
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Old 08-26-2009, 11:53 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Terminoligy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patty in Wisc View Post
That reminds me of Richard responding to Harvey with blank emails.
First I've heard of it. Harvey sends me an email about once a month or so and I believe all my replies have contained text.
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Old 08-27-2009, 12:02 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Terminoligy

Richard, you didn't respond here for about 2 months when you did the AgriStart orders. No one could get ahold of you to find out about our orders. Harvey posted that he sent you a nice email & you replied with a blank email - at least a few times. I wouldn't repeat it if it wasn't posted here. He even FWD'd me at least one so, I saw it. If you don't remember, you musta had a black out or something. Harvey is not a liar & neither am I.
He was worried about you & emailed to ask if you needed any help. You clicked on 'reply' & 'send' without writing anything. You did this 3 times that I know of. I went back & found one.
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Old 08-27-2009, 12:18 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Terminoligy

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Richard, you didn't respond here for about 2 months when you did the AgriStart orders. No one could get ahold of you to find out about our orders. Harvey posted that he sent you a nice email & you replied with a blank email - at least a few times. I wouldn't repeat it if it wasn't posted here. He even FWD'd me at least one so, I saw it. If you don't remember, you musta had a black out or something. Harvey is not a liar & neither am I.
Like I said, first I've heard of it. No one is accusing you of lying!

Many, many people did contact me by email and found out about their orders. I also kept the order status page updated. I had a mail filter running at the time and a few may have erroneously bounced. I have never intentionally sent a blank email -- although once in a blue moon I have by mistake, then follow up with a real message!
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Old 08-27-2009, 12:57 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Terminoligy

You did it 3 times in a row to Harvey so that can't be a mistake after the first time.
So, what's up w/ the pic? That's as good as a blank answer/email. Nevermind, I don't expect an answer & don't think I want to hear it.
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Old 08-27-2009, 07:21 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
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You did it 3 times in a row to Harvey so that can't be a mistake after the first time.
I did have an automated email filter running at the time and a few messages might have erroneously bounced. I don't doubt what you are saying but Harvey never mentioned it to me.
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Old 08-27-2009, 11:35 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Terminoligy

"I received an e-mail from Richard which was sent as a group broadcast. I can't find the e-mail right now but I thought they were going to be shipped last week. I want to make sure they don't arrive when I'm gone. I've tried to e-mail Richard several times but he seems to be blocking e-mails from me. All of my e-mails come forwarded back to me with a blank reply."

Thanks,

Harvey
````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
That was post #359 on the Agri Start thread. You used Harvey & few others -incl me, to post your messages on the thread for you. I wouldn't do it as I am not your personal messenger. #359 is prolly page 17 or 18..read on to the next page there.
You do have a tendency to cause frustration & anger.
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Old 08-27-2009, 11:57 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Terminoligy

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You do have a tendency to cause frustration & anger.
I cannot accept responsibility for emotions of others caused by their own impatience and/or misunderstandings.

For the group order of TC's in particular, there were three individuals who were not satisified with the weekly updates made to the status file -- instead they wanted daily if not hourly updates made to the Agristarts thread. Everyone else was more than satisfied with my efforts.

With regard to the plants of the group order that were damaged or killed during shipment: This was quite a learning curve for me. I had never shipped young plants across the country and made it clear that no one was going to pay for my "education". In every single case reported to me, I refunded the entire cost of the plant(s) and the associated shipping costs to the recipient.

If someone still has an outstanding issue with the Agristarts order I encourage them to email me with their concerns. I am certain we can have a quick resolution.
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Old 08-27-2009, 07:39 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: Terminoligy

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FYI, I've been growing organically since I was 6 years old, long before I moved to this neighborhood and long before any organic lifestyle was being promoted. Anything else smart guy? You're about as full full of sh!t as a Christmas turkey.
Mitchel, you are a dedicated, extremely skilled gardener. It is very sad that you take criticism of "organic" marketing as a personal insult.
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Old 08-27-2009, 08:52 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Terminoligy

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Mitchel, you are a dedicated, extremely skilled gardener. It is very sad that you take criticism of "organic" marketing as a personal insult.
Wow, did you really just say that? You falsely insinuate that because of my location on this planet I'm some mindless fool that cow tows to an advertising campaign that I'm not even actually aware of, when in reality you know nothing about me or my personal gardening history, then you come back and insult me again claiming that I can't take criticism. You are not only clueless, but also mean spirited. If my grandmother, bless her soul, who taught me how to grow plants were still alive and heard you say that she'd open a can of woop ass on you. Shame on you Richard.
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Old 08-27-2009, 09:34 PM   #18 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Terminoligy

I am very new here so I guess that I should just sit and watch, (for all I know such interactions as these are common place here and enjoyed by the participants) but I have learned much from the contributions of so many people here and really enjoy everybody's input... AND I have seen such threads, in other forums, really deteriorate and push people away.

just 2 cents

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Old 08-28-2009, 01:50 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: Terminoligy

I don't remember seeing Mitchel say he's against "organic marketing" which he admits he knows nothing about & prolly doesn't care about the "criticism" of it. Richard, stop turning things around. He's into his own 'organic gardening & that's all he said. Now, you're talking about 'marketing'. Who cares? Ya know, when i go in the produce dept., i never buy organic stuff. It's too expensive & how do I know for sure what it's grown in? I like my own veggies out of my garden - fresh picked. Nothing like it! That's all I know.
How do you know that Mitchel is an extremely skilled gardener? You trying to patranize to make up for more of your false statements? If he wants to grow organically then let it be! Lots of Ppl do. Just cuz you don't like it, leave them alone! It's their own private garden & having nothing to do with commercial sales, so stuff it.
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Old 08-28-2009, 05:01 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Wink Re: Terminoligy

Aaron, don't let a few of us that bicker occaisionally scare you off. The vast majority here are really only here to share information and have fun. Just that some of of feel strongly that organic growing methods have been under attack for awhile..........things will cool off .....with the weather I suppose.
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