Question for Richard and/or sunfish.

Want Them All · 09-10-2009, 05:31 PM

Per instructions on your 28-8-18 fertilizer bag:

Option A: For constant feeding: 2 teaspoons per gallon of water
Option B: 1 tree in ground: 1/3 lb (3/4 cup)/ month from Feb-Nov

Pretty much all my fruit trees are in ground. During the summer I water them twice a week (8 times a month).

If I use Option B, do I divide the 3/4 cup into 8 portions, then mix each portion with, say, a gallon of water, pour that gallon around the tree, then just add more water with the garden hose until the tree is thoroughly watered? In my case, "thoroughly watered" means 1" of water accumulation.

Regarding Option A, I'm not sure what "constant feeding" mean. I don't know how many gallons each of my tree gets per watering session, I just let the garden hose drip at the base of the tree until about 1" of water piles up, then move on to the next tree. So I don't see how I can dilute 2 teaspoons per gallon when I water them.

Thanks,

sunfish · 09-10-2009, 06:56 PM

I'll let Richard answer that one.

Richard · 09-10-2009, 07:14 PM

Note that

Option B: 1 tree in ground: 1/3 lb (3/4 cup)/ month from Feb-Nov

is a maximum rate.

You could indulge in the extra labor of fertilizing every watering, but it is just fine to apply once per month. I don't know how many trees you have, but consider putting the dose for 1 tree in a 5 gallon bucket, filling it with water, and then pour that around the tree.

The constant feeding dosage is for folks with a fertilizer injector. It siphons concentrate from a 5 to 100 gallon or more tank and feeds the tree a very dillute amount every watering. Siphon mixers are also available for garden hoses. Here's the set up I have at my small nursery for the 4 different formulas that I use:

Want Them All · 09-10-2009, 07:54 PM

OK I see. I'll drop in 10 teaspoons into a 5-gallon bucket, fill it up, pour that per tree, twice a week. With the size of the bag, it'll last me forever.

Thanks,

Richard · 09-14-2009, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Want Them All

OK I see. I'll drop in 10 teaspoons into a 5-gallon bucket, fill it up, pour that per tree, twice a week. With the size of the bag, it'll last me forever.

Thanks,

Looking at the size of your plants (in another thread), I'm concerned that 5 gallons of water twice per week is too much for those banana plants. But maybe your soil is extra porous? Check to make sure the soil underground around the corm is not staying soggy.

Want Them All · 09-14-2009, 10:27 PM

You're correct, I mistyped. I meant once a week. I just watered all my plants 2 days ago, then placed some compost/mulch on top. I'll wait a week and keep checking soil moisture level. I have a gauge with 2 prongs (frome Home Depot) that I use. I inserted the prongs as deep down as I can, usually can get to 7"-9", if it's on the dry side I water. My soil is rocky clay. I've noticed that since I've moved into this house 3 years ago, many of the soils around my plants have gotten softer. Probably due to watering, mulching, and soils breaking up naturally. At first, it was real difficult digging the planting holes.

Richard · 09-14-2009, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Want Them All

You're correct, I mistyped. I meant once a week. I just watered all my plants 2 days ago, then placed some compost/mulch on top. I'll wait a week and keep checking soil moisture level. I have a gauge with 2 prongs (frome Home Depot) that I use. I inserted the prongs as deep down as I can, usually can get to 7"-9", if it's on the dry side I water. My soil is rocky clay. I've noticed that since I've moved into this house 3 years ago, many of the soils around my plants have gotten softer. Probably due to watering, mulching, and soils breaking up naturally. At first, it was real difficult digging the planting holes.

This is the benefit of mulching. Complex carbon acids are leached out with watering and percolate downward. They interact with the clay and slowly cause it to disassociate. The process can be speed up by applying humic and/or fulvic acid before mulching. These are simply concentrate forms of carbon acid complexes.

The common retail moisture meters can give you false readings in clay or partially clay soils. Basically, the clay will cause a reading of "wet" until the clay is completely dry. Otherwise, the meters work well in commercial potting soils.

Want Them All · 09-15-2009, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

This is the benefit of mulching. Complex carbon acids are leached out with watering and percolate downward. They interact with the clay and slowly cause it to disassociate. The process can be speed up by applying humic and/or fulvic acid before mulching. These are simply concentrate forms of carbon acid complexes.

The common retail moisture meters can give you false readings in clay or partially clay soils. Basically, the clay will cause a reading of "wet" until the clay is completely dry. Otherwise, the meters work well in commercial potting soils.

Where can I get humic or fulvic acid? Will applying these "burn" the existing plants? If the moisture gauge give false reading in clay soil, what can one do to get accurate reading, aside from actually diging up the clay soil to see it directly (that would be too laborious with all the trees I have ).
Thanks,

Richard · 09-15-2009, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Want Them All

Where can I get humic or fulvic acid? Will applying these "burn" the existing plants?

You can obtain it locally from agricultural supply distributors or pay extra for shipping online. (On my site it is Soil Builder 2-1-1). It is applied to the soil, usually underneath the mulch layer. Typical application rates are 1/4 tsp to 1 tbsp per gallon. At that rate, it does not burn. It should not be applied within a week of other fertilizers (esp. solid granulars) because they will interact to make tar!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Want Them All

If the moisture gauge give false reading in clay soil, what can one do to get accurate reading, aside from actually diging up the clay soil to see it directly (that would be too laborious with all the trees I have ).

If the plant leaves start to yellow uniformly -- perhaps with brown edges, then the soil is too dry. If the leaves are green but with brown edges, it is likely overdose of fertilizer or some contaminant like herbicide or fluoridated city water. If the leaves begin to yellow but the major veins are green, then it is too much water. All of this is a matter of experience for you. If you are really concerned, take a pointed shovel and drive it straight down about 30 inches from a young plant or 3-4 feet from an established plant. Don't dig up the soil, just tilt the shovel a bit so you have an inch-wide opening to peer down into.

Want Them All · 10-04-2009, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

You can obtain it locally from agricultural supply distributors or pay extra for shipping online. (On my site it is Soil Builder 2-1-1). It is applied to the soil, usually underneath the mulch layer. Typical application rates are 1/4 tsp to 1 tbsp per gallon. At that rate, it does not burn. It should not be applied within a week of other fertilizers (esp. solid granulars) because they will interact to make tar!

If the plant leaves start to yellow uniformly -- perhaps with brown edges, then the soil is too dry. If the leaves are green but with brown edges, it is likely overdose of fertilizer or some contaminant like herbicide or fluoridated city water. If the leaves begin to yellow but the major veins are green, then it is too much water. All of this is a matter of experience for you. If you are really concerned, take a pointed shovel and drive it straight down about 30 inches from a young plant or 3-4 feet from an established plant. Don't dig up the soil, just tilt the shovel a bit so you have an inch-wide opening to peer down into.

Richard,
Any guesses to these mulberry leaves? They were uniformly green when planted, over 2 months ago. Thanks,

Richard · 10-04-2009, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Want Them All

Richard,
Any guesses to these mulberry leaves? They were uniformly green when planted, over 2 months ago. Thanks,

When do mulberries normally drop their leaves in your area?

Want Them All · 10-04-2009, 06:34 PM

Good question, I don't know. I'll find out.

Want Them All · 10-04-2009, 06:41 PM

What do I need to set up a fertigation system like you have pictured? I only need 2 reservoirs, as I'm only using 2 formulations of your fertilizers.
Thanks,

Taylor · 10-04-2009, 06:43 PM

New leaves on our Scuppernong grape vine look very similar to that Mulberry leaf, but not on the other plant. I'll try to take a picture soon. Any good solution?

Richard · 10-04-2009, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Want Them All

What do I need to set up a fertigation system like you have pictured? I only need 2 reservoirs, as I'm only using 2 formulations of your fertilizers.
Thanks,

The picture from my plant shelter shows 5 gallon buckets, with 1/4 inch holes cut in the lids (for my orchard, I use a much larger tank). The fertilizer dosage is about 1/2 cup each time you fill the buckets -- put it an after the water to keep superconcentrate from being sucked into the injectors. In addition to fertilizer I use 1 drop (no more) of algaecide each time I fill the buckets. The siphon injectors are here: http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/pro...ls_siphon.html

Richard · 10-04-2009, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Want Them All

Richard,
Any guesses to these mulberry leaves? They were uniformly green when planted, over 2 months ago.

Feed them Sul-Po-Mag (also called K-Mag). Dosages for 1-time fall feeding: 1 cup per 6 foot high x 6 foot wide tree, 1/2 cup for tree or bush half that size, etc. Put the mineral where irrigation water will hit it near roots, not the trunk. You can probably find it in an Ag supply store or independent nursery, if not it is here: http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/pro...potassium.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Want Them All

Want Them All · 10-07-2009, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

The picture from my plant shelter shows 5 gallon buckets, with 1/4 inch holes cut in the lids (for my orchard, I use a much larger tank). The fertilizer dosage is about 1/2 cup each time you fill the buckets -- put it an after the water to keep superconcentrate from being sucked into the injectors. In addition to fertilizer I use 1 drop (no more) of algaecide each time I fill the buckets. The siphon injectors are here: http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/pro...ls_siphon.html

I have about 30+ trees to water. What container size do you recommend? The 5-gallon buckets would need too frequent refilling.
Thanks,

Richard · 10-07-2009, 02:23 PM

Start by determining your monthly irrigation water usage. For example, you can measure the amount you water one tree, then multiply, etc.

Let's suppose your monthly summer usage is 20 gallons/tree/week x 4 weeks/month x 35 trees = 2800 gallons/month:

The siphon mixer pictured below has a fixed injection ratio of 1:16, so you would need a 2800 / 16 = 175 gallon tank. The Dosatron and Dema injectors can be set to a finer rate of 1:100 or 1:200 so you can drop to a 30 or 15 gallon tank of concentrate. Note that a smaller tank means higher concentration so the tank material must be able to handle a pH of 4.5 to 5. Stay away from the EZ-Flo systems because they are non-proportional.

09-10-2009, 05:31 PM	#1 (permalink)
Want Them All Want Them All's Photo Gallery Location: Central California, USA Find me on the map! Zone: 9 Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 530 BananaBucks : 154,492 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3 Times Was Thanked 311 Times in 126 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Question for Richard and/or sunfish. Per instructions on your 28-8-18 fertilizer bag: Option A: For constant feeding: 2 teaspoons per gallon of water Option B: 1 tree in ground: 1/3 lb (3/4 cup)/ month from Feb-Nov Pretty much all my fruit trees are in ground. During the summer I water them twice a week (8 times a month). If I use Option B, do I divide the 3/4 cup into 8 portions, then mix each portion with, say, a gallon of water, pour that gallon around the tree, then just add more water with the garden hose until the tree is thoroughly watered? In my case, "thoroughly watered" means 1" of water accumulation. Regarding Option A, I'm not sure what "constant feeding" mean. I don't know how many gallons each of my tree gets per watering session, I just let the garden hose drip at the base of the tree until about 1" of water piles up, then move on to the next tree. So I don't see how I can dilute 2 teaspoons per gallon when I water them. Thanks, __________________ Last edited by Want Them All : 09-10-2009 at 07:54 PM.

09-10-2009, 06:56 PM	#2 (permalink)
sunfish sunfish's Photo Gallery Location: San Diego Find me on the map! Zone: 9-11 Name: Tony Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 15,297 BananaBucks : 364 Feedback: 8 / 100% Said "Thanks" 2,931 Times Was Thanked 16,463 Times in 6,149 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,990 Times	Re: Question for Richard and/or sunfish. I'll let Richard answer that one. __________________ Tony,Thanks Last edited by sunfish : 09-10-2009 at 07:02 PM.

09-10-2009, 07:14 PM	#3 (permalink)
Richard Hermitian Operator Richard's Photo Gallery Location: Vista, CA Find me on the map! Zone: numerous Name: Richard Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 6,908 BananaBucks : 3,411 Feedback: 8 / 100% Said "Thanks" 2,013 Times Was Thanked 5,301 Times in 2,598 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,371 Times	Re: Question for Richard and/or sunfish. Note that Option B: 1 tree in ground: 1/3 lb (3/4 cup)/ month from Feb-Nov is a maximum rate. You could indulge in the extra labor of fertilizing every watering, but it is just fine to apply once per month. I don't know how many trees you have, but consider putting the dose for 1 tree in a 5 gallon bucket, filling it with water, and then pour that around the tree. The constant feeding dosage is for folks with a fertilizer injector. It siphons concentrate from a 5 to 100 gallon or more tank and feeds the tree a very dillute amount every watering. Siphon mixers are also available for garden hoses. Here's the set up I have at my small nursery for the 4 different formulas that I use: __________________ PM and Email questions welcome. website: http://www.PlantsThatProduce.com

09-10-2009, 07:54 PM	#4 (permalink)
Want Them All Want Them All's Photo Gallery Location: Central California, USA Find me on the map! Zone: 9 Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 530 BananaBucks : 154,492 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3 Times Was Thanked 311 Times in 126 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Question for Richard and/or sunfish. OK I see. I'll drop in 10 teaspoons into a 5-gallon bucket, fill it up, pour that per tree, twice a week. With the size of the bag, it'll last me forever. Thanks, __________________

09-14-2009, 10:27 PM	#6 (permalink)
Want Them All Want Them All's Photo Gallery Location: Central California, USA Find me on the map! Zone: 9 Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 530 BananaBucks : 154,492 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3 Times Was Thanked 311 Times in 126 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Question for Richard and/or sunfish. You're correct, I mistyped. I meant once a week. I just watered all my plants 2 days ago, then placed some compost/mulch on top. I'll wait a week and keep checking soil moisture level. I have a gauge with 2 prongs (frome Home Depot) that I use. I inserted the prongs as deep down as I can, usually can get to 7"-9", if it's on the dry side I water. My soil is rocky clay. I've noticed that since I've moved into this house 3 years ago, many of the soils around my plants have gotten softer. Probably due to watering, mulching, and soils breaking up naturally. At first, it was real difficult digging the planting holes. __________________

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10-04-2009, 06:34 PM	#12 (permalink)
Want Them All Want Them All's Photo Gallery Location: Central California, USA Find me on the map! Zone: 9 Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 530 BananaBucks : 154,492 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3 Times Was Thanked 311 Times in 126 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Question for Richard and/or sunfish. Good question, I don't know. I'll find out. __________________

10-04-2009, 06:41 PM	#13 (permalink)
Want Them All Want Them All's Photo Gallery Location: Central California, USA Find me on the map! Zone: 9 Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 530 BananaBucks : 154,492 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3 Times Was Thanked 311 Times in 126 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Question for Richard and/or sunfish. What do I need to set up a fertigation system like you have pictured? I only need 2 reservoirs, as I'm only using 2 formulations of your fertilizers. Thanks, __________________

10-04-2009, 06:43 PM	#14 (permalink)
Taylor LEARN, or LEAVE. Taylor 's Photo Gallery Location: VA Find me on the map! Zone: 8a Name: Taylor Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 2,076 BananaBucks : 80,749 Feedback: 15 / 100% Said "Thanks" 354 Times Was Thanked 624 Times in 317 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 283 Times	Re: Question for Richard and/or sunfish. New leaves on our Scuppernong grape vine look very similar to that Mulberry leaf, but not on the other plant. I'll try to take a picture soon. Any good solution? __________________ "When Momcilo Krajisnik, Karadzic's successor, was asked about the chances of restoring a multiethnic unitary Bosnia, he responded with biting sarcasm: "You can't grow bananas here," he said, "bananas may grow in Africa but not here." He was not alone." -John G. Stoessinger, Why Nations Go To War

10-07-2009, 02:23 PM	#18 (permalink)
Richard Hermitian Operator Richard's Photo Gallery Location: Vista, CA Find me on the map! Zone: numerous Name: Richard Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 6,908 BananaBucks : 3,411 Feedback: 8 / 100% Said "Thanks" 2,013 Times Was Thanked 5,301 Times in 2,598 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,371 Times	Re: Question for Richard and/or sunfish. Start by determining your monthly irrigation water usage. For example, you can measure the amount you water one tree, then multiply, etc. Let's suppose your monthly summer usage is 20 gallons/tree/week x 4 weeks/month x 35 trees = 2800 gallons/month: The siphon mixer pictured below has a fixed injection ratio of 1:16, so you would need a 2800 / 16 = 175 gallon tank. The Dosatron and Dema injectors can be set to a finer rate of 1:100 or 1:200 so you can drop to a 30 or 15 gallon tank of concentrate. Note that a smaller tank means higher concentration so the tank material must be able to handle a pH of 4.5 to 5. Stay away from the EZ-Flo systems because they are non-proportional. __________________ PM and Email questions welcome. website: http://www.PlantsThatProduce.com

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