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Banana Plant Soil, Additives, and Fertilizer This forum is an area where you may discuss the soil to grow banana plants in, as well as soil additives such as teas, composts, manures, fertilizers and related topics.


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Old 11-18-2023, 02:42 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: Potting pups in sand

For what it's worth, this is the same method I use for growing banana seeds. The only difference is I prefer using a smaller grain size, similar to pool filter sand.


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Anyone that's been in a greenhouse has seen how roots behave in a zone of high humidity. Replicating that in a pot of coarse sand is very simple and can be accomplished with many different materials. I prefer a material that can be placed on top of the coarse sand and is easily molded to shape, retains high aeration levels (which means it has structure), retains a high moisture level for an extended period of time, is biodegradable but doesn't degrade quickly, and provides a perfect environment to promote maximum root growth.
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Old 11-18-2023, 03:50 PM   #22 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Potting pups in sand

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Originally Posted by PR-Giants View Post
Anyone that's been in a greenhouse has seen how roots behave in a zone of high humidity. Replicating that in a pot of coarse sand is very simple and can be accomplished with many different materials. I prefer a material that can be placed on top of the coarse sand and is easily molded to shape, retains high aeration levels (which means it has structure), retains a high moisture level for an extended period of time, is biodegradable but doesn't degrade quickly, and provides a perfect environment to promote maximum root growth.

Excellent. I have loads of at least one potentially good option.
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Old 11-19-2023, 12:15 AM   #23 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Potting pups in sand

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For what it's worth, this is the same method I use for growing banana seeds. The only difference is I prefer using a smaller grain size, similar to pool filter sand.
And.....I have lots of pool filter sand to match up with the few seeds I have left. I do believe I will give'er a go
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Old 11-20-2023, 11:40 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: Potting pups in sand

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That makes sense if he started with straight filter sand but no longer uses it by itself. I definitely have a few products I can add to the mix to increase the average particle size
When Hector started buying bananas I advised him to use coarse sand instead of the pool filter sand because even though he was growing in a warm climate and that extra aeration might not be necessary it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

As far as the average particle size theory goes ...

Visualize a container filled with baseballs. Then remove enough baseballs so that some basketballs can be added.

Does the amount of airspace between the balls increase or decrease?

Is the airspace based on the largest particle size, the average particle size, or the smallest particle size?
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Old 11-20-2023, 11:45 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: Potting pups in sand

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the more coarse, the more you can water. the more fines, the less you water.

i bet i can grow a banana in just perlite around the corm. never tried it, but just for fun. ?
beam2050 explains this very well.

Temperature also plays a role, so it's the synergy of aeration, moisture, and temperature.


What would happen to the perlite as the rhizome grows and the external pressure on it increases?

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Old 11-20-2023, 12:19 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: Potting pups in sand

A member from Wisconsin that bought an a'ea'e from me about 10 years ago used Turface MVP and they also had good results. I use a lot of coarse sand and free is always less expensive than "fairly cheap". Coarse sand is under our feet and all I need to find it is a shovel, some dirt, and a window screen.







Quote:
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For those of you struggling to find a coarse sand (I am) I found something that looks as coarse as the sand in PR Giants pictures and may be better than sand for those of us outside the tropics. It is a baked clay product that looks like those standard red clay pots chopped in tiny uniform particles. It is sterile, very coarse, fairly cheap, has tiny pores in each grain, and may be widely available. It is heavy. It drains like water through a window screen. You can not get water to puddle in a pot. It runs straight through. Is it a good grow medium? I have used it this summer with good results. I do not know the qualities of it versus other mediums. I potted up an AeAe, a Florida, two NoNo, and several sensitive Alocasia's as well as some palm seedlings and all are doing well. It's called "Turface MVP". All are doing well in a mix with 3/4 MVP and 1/4 perlite, with just a handful of organic potting mix thrown in (I know that adds up to more than 4 quarters but you get it). I will post a link but if it does not help they use this stuff on athletic fields so many cities and athletic organizations may be able to tell you a local seller. My link shows a bag that weighs 50 pounds and is about as large or a little larger than the largest potting soil bags sold at say a Wal Mart.
https://www.ewingoutdoorsupply.com/5...ld-conditioner
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Old 11-20-2023, 12:58 PM   #27 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Potting pups in sand

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Originally Posted by PR-Giants View Post
As far as the average particle size theory goes ...

Visualize a container filled with baseballs. Then remove enough baseballs so that some basketballs can be added.

Does the amount of airspace between the balls increase or decrease?

Is the airspace based on the largest particle size, the average particle size, or the smallest particle size?
Good point - when you put it that way it seems clear to me the airspace, at least within the mixture as a whole and assuming the basketballs aren't clumped by themselves in one part of the mix, would decrease.

Which would mean the airspace within the mix would be dependent on the smallest particle size, again, assuming the conglomerate was well mixed and/or the smaller particles were allowed to fill in the spaces between the bigger particles.

So, if I understand your point, in general for increasing aeration in any given mix (we'll keep it simple for the moment and assume a rock/sand mix), mixing larger particles into a mix with smaller ones likely won't achieve that. Or, at least not to the degree one might desire when attempting to maximize aeration.
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Old 11-20-2023, 01:07 PM   #28 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Potting pups in sand

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Coarse sand is under our feet and all I need to find it is a shovel, some dirt, and a window screen.
We have a lot of sand here too. It all seems so fine to me but now that I think about it, I haven't spent much time really examining it. I guess I should head to one of our beaches with a window screen and see what I come up with.

Just curiously, why the dirt?
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Old 11-20-2023, 01:12 PM   #29 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Potting pups in sand

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What would happen to the perlite as the rhizome grows and the external pressure on it increases?
Perlite is quite fragile and crumbles easily. Presumably under prolonged pressure it would eventually become a mass of fine particles.
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Old 11-20-2023, 02:21 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: Potting pups in sand

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We have a lot of sand here too. It all seems so fine to me but now that I think about it, I haven't spent much time really examining it. I guess I should head to one of our beaches with a window screen and see what I come up with.

Just curiously, why the dirt?
A stream or a creek would have a higher concentration of coarse sand. Sand on an ocean beach tends to grind itself down.

An aluminum screen will wear out quickly so fiberglass is better. Screening the sand underwater is quicker and also cleans the sand.

Dirt has many definitions, use the 'earth or soil' one.
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Old 11-20-2023, 06:51 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Default Re: Potting pups in sand

Quote:
Originally Posted by PR-Giants View Post
When Hector started buying bananas I advised him to use coarse sand instead of the pool filter sand because even though he was growing in a warm climate and that extra aeration might not be necessary it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

As far as the average particle size theory goes ...

Visualize a container filled with baseballs. Then remove enough baseballs so that some basketballs can be added.

Does the amount of airspace between the balls increase or decrease?

Is the airspace based on the largest particle size, the average particle size, or the smallest particle size?
wish i could pull up the pic you sent me of the dime and your rock. i studied that hard.

your screening of the sand, i can see where you are going with this. the pic with the dime? 99% of the pool filter sand will fall thru the screen, if not all. what i think the trick is; keep the corm as dry as possible and the roots very wet. you can near drown em.

lord i miss hector and ty, the dynamic duo. they made coming here fun. good heads.
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npk of banana leaf ash 1.75/0.75/0.5

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Old 11-20-2023, 07:55 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: Potting pups in sand

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Perlite is quite fragile and crumbles easily. Presumably under prolonged pressure it would eventually become a mass of fine particles.
perlite. that was a think while i was typing..............many of us can't get the coarse sand/rock that is available to you. BUT PERLITE ADDED TO THE ROCK?

now mike can go to the mountains, find a nice mountain stream with some screen nailed between boards and get all the substrate he wants.

as for me, towards the east coast we a have what we call shell sand. it perks very well and can have some courses. not a lot of shell, so i don't believe i have to worry about alkalinity. i have not done this yet.

now to keep the rock in the pot, the best thing i found is a couple of inches of leaves. large pot, 2 1/2 to 3 gallon pot. because the rock is so heavy i use a frying pan with a hole in the side about 3/4 of inch high so i can keep water at the bottom of the pot. what i found is, the roots always go to the leaves and the water and grow great. i liked your suggestion of using potting soil in the bottom. so, leaves, potting soil and then your rock above that, enough rock to keep the corm aeriated. for us people who don't have the materials readily available to us.
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npk of banana leaf ash 1.75/0.75/0.5

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