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Banana Plant Soil, Additives, and Fertilizer This forum is an area where you may discuss the soil to grow banana plants in, as well as soil additives such as teas, composts, manures, fertilizers and related topics.


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Old 06-10-2018, 04:01 PM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Default Persistent Herbicides EXTREME threat

I posted last year when I was having many problems with several different plants in my yard, originally I suspected Panama disease. Somewhere in my search I found out about persistent herbicides and the problems in my yard started to have a pattern that made sense. I was using alfalfa as mulch around all my bananas and figs and that is where my problems were. I was also putting some alfalfa in my compost bins. Last fall I did a test with the compost on my winter vegetables, I grow mostly in containers and there was an obvious difference with my beans. The one without compost grew well and the one with it was stunted for a few months but then started growing and producing. The other plants showed some problems but nothing that had me too worried. Recently I cooked my soil and compost (reused Fox Farm Ocean Forest and reused Pro Mix) and containers in separate solar tents with plastic. The soil and compost reached 145F for 3 days and the containers reached almost 200F. There was no chance of nematodes or panama surviving that heat. I took a chance and potted up a few figs and bananas, the figs went into total meltdown after a few weeks and I am scrambling to get them repotted into some Pro Mix. The bananas have stopped growing but look OK and I hope they don't croak before they can be repotted. I had top dressed several guavas and other figs with the compost and they are not showing any problems, I have removed that top dressing and replaced it with some cow manure but that could also have some of the persistent herbicide in it. The US Composting Counsel will show just how dangerous this threat is. I tried to make a link but have limited computer skills and no 5 year olds around to show me how. It is causing huge problems with organic farmers and must be banned. This herbicide is often used on hay/ alfalfa fields and it survives digestion and composting and can last for years before breaking down. I have some nice TC's from Darkman that might not make it so I may be looking for a Dwarf Namwah when the weather cools off in September.
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Old 06-10-2018, 05:22 PM   #2 (permalink)
 
Location: Gulf Coast Mississippi
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Default Re: Persistent Herbicides EXTREME threat

Quote:
Originally Posted by hanabananaman View Post
I posted last year when I was having many problems with several different plants in my yard, originally I suspected Panama disease. Somewhere in my search I found out about persistent herbicides and the problems in my yard started to have a pattern that made sense. I was using alfalfa as mulch around all my bananas and figs and that is where my problems were. I was also putting some alfalfa in my compost bins. Last fall I did a test with the compost on my winter vegetables, I grow mostly in containers and there was an obvious difference with my beans. The one without compost grew well and the one with it was stunted for a few months but then started growing and producing. The other plants showed some problems but nothing that had me too worried. Recently I cooked my soil and compost (reused Fox Farm Ocean Forest and reused Pro Mix) and containers in separate solar tents with plastic. The soil and compost reached 145F for 3 days and the containers reached almost 200F. There was no chance of nematodes or panama surviving that heat. I took a chance and potted up a few figs and bananas, the figs went into total meltdown after a few weeks and I am scrambling to get them repotted into some Pro Mix. The bananas have stopped growing but look OK and I hope they don't croak before they can be repotted. I had top dressed several guavas and other figs with the compost and they are not showing any problems, I have removed that top dressing and replaced it with some cow manure but that could also have some of the persistent herbicide in it. The US Composting Counsel will show just how dangerous this threat is. I tried to make a link but have limited computer skills and no 5 year olds around to show me how. It is causing huge problems with organic farmers and must be banned. This herbicide is often used on hay/ alfalfa fields and it survives digestion and composting and can last for years before breaking down. I have some nice TC's from Darkman that might not make it so I may be looking for a Dwarf Namwah when the weather cools off in September.
Bummer - if you copy the url for the herbicide link and paste it as text I believe it should be readable for the rest of us... Very interested..
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Old 06-10-2018, 05:37 PM   #3 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Persistent Herbicides EXTREME threat

Many thanks for the information. It is really nice that we can share news about these hazards.
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Old 06-10-2018, 10:26 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Persistent Herbicides EXTREME threat

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Originally Posted by hanabananaman View Post
... This herbicide is often used on hay/ alfalfa fields ...
LOL. Why would any farmer use a persistent herbicide on a field they plan to reuse?
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Old 06-11-2018, 02:31 PM   #5 (permalink)
 
Location: Mesa AZ
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Default Re: Persistent Herbicides EXTREME threat

Richard I would expect a man with as much knowledge and respect as you have to at least look into what I stated on the US Composting Council. It is not a laughing matter and when you do take the time to educate yourself you will see that these herbicides do not affect grasses/hay etc.. I was hoping the more informed people like you had some prior knowledge of this problem and would have something constructive to add.
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Old 06-11-2018, 04:02 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Persistent Herbicides EXTREME threat

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... these herbicides do not affect grasses/hay etc.
If true then they will not affect bananas and other monocots either. If you would provide the name of the herbicide(s) I can verify it for you -- or at least provide a way to find the information you are referring to.

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... the US Composting Council.
The US Composting Council is an advertising agency funded by producers of composting products, with pay-for-publication articles written by the producers, and well-known as a source of rumors and over-generalizations.
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Last edited by Richard : 06-11-2018 at 05:00 PM.
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Old 06-11-2018, 08:03 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
Location: Mesa AZ
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Default Re: Persistent Herbicides EXTREME threat

Richard thanks for the tip on the compost council, I like to know when there could be motives to BS people. There is a rather detailed story involving Washington state agencies addressing the problems with manure from farms being infected and the farmers being affected that use the compost being produced. I do need to figure out what is attacking my plants, my bananas have had sheaths separating from the stem on all of them including the TC's acquired in November. A neighbor has a tree that was diagnosed with Texas root rot and I don't know how contagious it is. My mat of tall Namwah was wiped out last year with sheaths separating, stacking, and dark ring in corms on newly cut pups. Panama disease symptoms I believe. My reused soil is picked clean of all root residue before being cooked. My fig trees that were repotted in fresh Pro Mix are looking a little better but some still in the suspect soil are looking nasty.
The chemicals mentioned on the compost site are Clopyralid, Aminopyralid, Aminocyclopyrachlor, Picloram. My entire neighborhood is covered by a foot or 2 of soil dug out to create a manmade lake about 500ft away from my home. I started to suspect that might have something to do with my problems. Thanks for your help
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Old 06-11-2018, 09:57 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Persistent Herbicides EXTREME threat

Certainly growing bananas for fruit in Mesa AZ is more difficult than my location. I hope you are successful.
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Old 06-12-2018, 12:26 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Persistent Herbicides EXTREME threat

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Originally Posted by hanabananaman View Post
... There is a rather detailed story involving Washington state agencies addressing the problems with manure ...
The details are that dairy farmers are storing manure in human-made ponds, which results in concentrations of minerals in the manure seeping into ground water.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hanabananaman View Post
... the farmers being affected that use the compost being produced. ...
This is someone's made-up B.S.
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Old 06-12-2018, 09:33 AM   #10 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Persistent Herbicides EXTREME threat

Quote:
Originally Posted by hanabananaman View Post
Richard thanks for the tip on the compost council, I like to know when there could be motives to BS people. There is a rather detailed story involving Washington state agencies addressing the problems with manure from farms being infected and the farmers being affected that use the compost being produced. I do need to figure out what is attacking my plants, my bananas have had sheaths separating from the stem on all of them including the TC's acquired in November. A neighbor has a tree that was diagnosed with Texas root rot and I don't know how contagious it is. My mat of tall Namwah was wiped out last year with sheaths separating, stacking, and dark ring in corms on newly cut pups. Panama disease symptoms I believe. My reused soil is picked clean of all root residue before being cooked. My fig trees that were repotted in fresh Pro Mix are looking a little better but some still in the suspect soil are looking nasty.
The chemicals mentioned on the compost site are Clopyralid, Aminopyralid, Aminocyclopyrachlor, Picloram. My entire neighborhood is covered by a foot or 2 of soil dug out to create a manmade lake about 500ft away from my home. I started to suspect that might have something to do with my problems. Thanks for your help
Those herbicides listed are Auxinic herbicides which at non-lethal doses cause fast distorted growth. In bananas, the symptoms should be similar to calcium or boron deficiencies.

Auxinic herbicides are not used to control weeds in alfalfa crops. Most likely sulfonylurea herbicides were used because they are persistent.

http://www.agronomy.k-state.edu/docu...ed-control.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfon..._as_herbicides

"They function by interfering with biosynthesis of the amino acids valine, isoleucine, and leucine"
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