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Banana Plant Soil, Additives, and Fertilizer This forum is an area where you may discuss the soil to grow banana plants in, as well as soil additives such as teas, composts, manures, fertilizers and related topics.


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Old 06-27-2009, 12:32 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Default Re: "Organic" Fertillizer

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Old 06-27-2009, 11:00 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Default Re: "Organic" Fertillizer

The word "organic" by itself is meaningless. You will need to be more specific for others to understand. Here is a list of several intended meanings and uses of "organic fertilizer": PTP_2008_09_Organic
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Old 06-27-2009, 01:53 PM   #43 (permalink)
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The word "organic" by itself is meaningless. You will need to be more specific for others to understand. Here is a list of several intended meanings and uses of "organic fertilizer": PTP_2008_09_Organic

Thanks for the link Richard.
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Old 06-27-2009, 02:01 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Default Re: "Organic" Fertillizer

Organic Fertilizers derived from plant, animal or mineral resources combined with organic matter are ideal for enhancing soil fertility and stimulating plant growth in a sustainable and environmentally friendly way. Organic fertilizers add nutrients to the soil for uptake by plants and for use by the myriad of microorganisms that inhabit healthy, productive soil.

So would that be Earth Friendly?
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Old 06-27-2009, 05:48 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Organic Fertilizers derived from plant, animal or mineral resources combined with organic matter are ideal for enhancing soil fertility and stimulating plant growth in a sustainable and environmentally friendly way. Organic fertilizers add nutrients to the soil for uptake by plants and for use by the myriad of microorganisms that inhabit healthy, productive soil.

So would that be Earth Friendly?
I don't know, but "combined with organic matter" can mean "combined with sewage sludge" unless the label says "contains no sewage sludge".

Further, when we grow plants that are not native to the ecology of our local environment it is rarely environmentally friendly -- no matter what the source of nutrients and amendments we use.
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Old 07-03-2009, 08:37 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Further, when we grow plants that are not native to the ecology of our local environment it is rarely environmentally friendly -- no matter what the source of nutrients and amendments we use.
I'm not sure if I understand what you mean. Most fruit trees grown here in the United States, did not originate here. If a type of tree cannot be grown in a certain area, they are kept in potts. How is this hurting the environment?
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Old 07-03-2009, 09:26 AM   #47 (permalink)
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I'm not sure if I understand what you mean. Most fruit trees grown here in the United States, did not originate here. If a type of tree cannot be grown in a certain area, they are kept in potts. How is this hurting the environment?
Most fruit trees grown in the U.S. did not originate here and are not grown in pots. Even when they are, the runoff has a local effect.

Further, look at the ornamental plants plants in your yard. They have significantly perturbed the local ecology.

In general, when you increase the amount of water applied to an area of ground, or enhance the nutrients available to plants in the soil it is usually not "friendly" to the local ecology -- regardless of the source of the water or nutrients.
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Old 07-03-2009, 10:11 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Default Re: "Organic" Fertillizer

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Most fruit trees grown in the U.S. did not originate here and are not grown in pots. Even when they are, the runoff has a local effect.

Further, look at the ornamental plants plants in your yard. They have significantly perturbed the local ecology.

In general, when you increase the amount of water applied to an area of ground, or enhance the nutrients available to plants in the soil it is usually not "friendly" to the local ecology -- regardless of the source of the water or nutrients.
I still don't understand your point. It seems as though you are suggesting that we shouldn't water or feed our plants. Also, that we should not buy plants that are not native to our area. So, no bananas, mangos, citrus, avocados, etc etc. Is that what you are trying to say?
As for runoff from watering potted plants...that can be solved by placing a collection tray* under it. * don't know if that's the right name for it

Furthermore, please describe the negative effect you are referring too. I have all types of birds and insects that feed off fallen fruit. What is not eaten, decomposes into the soil. What is being hurt by this?

There have been specific cases where our ignorance of plant growth habits have hurt the local ecology. The same can be said of certain animals and insects brought in to control a specific problem only to cause more problems.
One example I can give is the Florida Citrus Quarantine. Citrus greening is threatening our industry, but California does not have this problem. So, Citrus may not be shipped in or out of Florida as of right now. If it were, the problem would likely spread. I think this example shows that we are a bit more educated on the subject and can feel safe growing any plant we wish.
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Old 07-03-2009, 10:31 AM   #49 (permalink)
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I think he means we are literally changing the local ecology by bring in a different species and non native soil, and or nutrients that weren't there before.

How ever we have been doing that for years with Agriculture. and even now with Genetically Modified Food.
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Old 07-03-2009, 10:43 AM   #50 (permalink)
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I still don't understand your point.
Not long ago in a place known as your yard, nature took its course and a many species of life came and went. When humans arrived on the scene, the local ecology was changed dramatically. Perhaps it changed for the better of humans and some species, but it can hardly be called "earth friendly".

In my own yard, I have been very unfriendly towards the native environment. The increased water distribution to the soil has caused the proliferation of imported wildflowers which have crowded out and all but eliminated the local grasses. I have waged war with iron phosphate against the dominant animal -- slugs. The increased plant nutrients I have introduced to the soil have caused the imported plant varieties to flourish and I have systematically removed all but a few of the native Sumac shrubs. There is definitely an abundance of wildlife that now visits my property -- birds, pollinators, etc. but my actions have been very unfriendly towards the original local ecology.
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Old 07-03-2009, 02:25 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Not long ago in a place known as your yard, nature took its course and a many species of life came and went. When humans arrived on the scene, the local ecology was changed dramatically. Perhaps it changed for the better of humans and some species, but it can hardly be called "earth friendly".

In my own yard, I have been very unfriendly towards the native environment. The increased water distribution to the soil has caused the proliferation of imported wildflowers which have crowded out and all but eliminated the local grasses. I have waged war with iron phosphate against the dominant animal -- slugs. The increased plant nutrients I have introduced to the soil have caused the imported plant varieties to flourish and I have systematically removed all but a few of the native Sumac shrubs. There is definitely an abundance of wildlife that now visits my property -- birds, pollinators, etc. but my actions have been very unfriendly towards the original local ecology.
Well stated and I agree with both of you. It just came across as if growing your favorite fruits is wrong. When you say we are hurting the environment, what comes to mind is illegal logging and poachers, but you are correct in saying that we all as individuals have changed our local ecology.

In genereal, I think us humans can be compared to parasites in the way we spread and completely disregard our "host". While some of us consume within our means, most of us overdo it.. Especially in this country, where we have the highest obesity rate. We need to produce bigger and more abundant crops in order to meet demand. Ergo, the hormone filled animals that we consume every day.

This is off the subject, but I can't help but remember that just a few days ago, I saw a 500lb man driving around in a scooter through a hotel. He had no problem walking around the poker room to see who was left, but wouldn't walk to the bathroom. He doesn't realize, much less care,that there are handicapped persons that genuinely need that transportation. It's a good example of some peoples general disregard for others and nature.

Again, doesn't directly relate to the "organic fertilizer" subject at all, but I feel it's relevant to the topic of us hurting our environment.
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Old 07-03-2009, 05:18 PM   #52 (permalink)
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I think the only way to not have dretamental impact on the enviroment in the big picture for fertilizer, we should all just make our compost. Is that not what your trying to say richard?
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Old 07-03-2009, 07:02 PM   #53 (permalink)
 
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This is off the subject, but I can't help but remember that just a few days ago, I saw a 500lb man driving around in a scooter through a hotel. He had no problem walking around the poker room to see who was left, but wouldn't walk to the bathroom. He doesn't realize, much less care,that there are handicapped persons that genuinely need that transportation. It's a good example of some peoples general disregard for others and nature.
A good 80-90% of the people here with handicap stickers are overweight. Most of them have no other physical problems and actually NEED the extra excersize. They should give those people some marking on the vehicle that makes them park in the back provided its not raining or extremely hot.
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Old 07-03-2009, 07:14 PM   #54 (permalink)
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I think the only way to not have dretamental impact on the enviroment in the big picture for fertilizer, we should all just make our compost. Is that not what your trying to say richard?
Nope. I'm saying that cultivating the earth is not an "earth friendly" practice. All the talk about "organic" being earth friendly is bogus. Let's be honest. We are doing it for our own benefit. Of course, there are some practices that are more responsible than others. Ultimately, it is how something is applied that really matters.
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Old 07-04-2009, 12:13 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Old 07-04-2009, 02:25 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Nope. I'm saying that cultivating the earth is not an "earth friendly" practice. All the talk about "organic" being earth friendly is bogus. Let's be honest. We are doing it for our own benefit. Of course, there are some practices that are more responsible than others. Ultimately, it is how something is applied that really matters.

I think I understand what your saying, So wouldnt Making compost and worm castings be "earth friendly" if you make it on your own.

And yeah we are doing it for our selves. I want to make sure that I am not consuming synthetic chemicals in my edibles.

So what I was looking for Originally was non synthetic, natural fertilizers (worm castings, compost, blood meal.. and so on, things that are not to the my environment, pets and family.
I might be rambling now, but thank you for setting it straight for me Richard.
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Old 07-04-2009, 04:40 PM   #57 (permalink)
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I think I understand what your saying, So wouldnt Making compost and worm castings be "earth friendly" if you make it on your own.
No. The earth-friendly thing to do is revert your property to the state it was in before any humans settled there. It is hypocritical to think of gardening as "earth friendly". Gardening is human-friendly at best.
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Old 07-04-2009, 04:47 PM   #58 (permalink)
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I think I understand what your saying, So wouldnt Making compost and worm castings be "earth friendly" if you make it on your own.

And yeah we are doing it for our selves. I want to make sure that I am not consuming synthetic chemicals in my edibles.

So what I was looking for Originally was non synthetic, natural fertilizers (worm castings, compost, blood meal.. and so on, things that are not to the my environment, pets and family.
I might be rambling now, but thank you for setting it straight for me Richard.
Making your own compost can be good and bad. Throwing leaves, pulled weeds, dead plants, lawn cuttings etc. in the garbage is a waste. Placing the material back to where it originated keeps replenishing nutrients.

If you stack a ton of this material in small space where water can drain through, it can potentially pollute the groundwater and nearby water ways with nutrients.

As for synthetic fertilizers, there is nothing different from synthetic nutrients and nutrients from organic sources. Anything we do will affect the environment. The fact is, you are changing the environment when you add any fertilizer regardless of the source. Improving the efficiency of our production is the best thing we can do.
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Old 07-04-2009, 07:46 PM   #59 (permalink)
 
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Earth friendly doesn't have to be the state it was in before you got there. There is a big difference between tropical landscaping and a toxic waste dump. IMO when you start getting tons of wildlife moving in its pretty "earth friendly".
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Old 07-04-2009, 09:44 PM   #60 (permalink)
 
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Just my two cents, but I believe that the long term view of improving the efficiency of our production means that we practice natural, poison-free growing. The answer is using natural mulch, not feeding the soil salt and other chemical ingredients in fertilizers that are not organic, and not using any pesticides. Many non-organic ingredients kill earthworms and other beneficial soil life, and prevent the plant from growing naturally at its best; hence, I use only organic fertilizer and as a result have an abundance of beneficial activity in my soil. By mulching and improving the soil, we can grow better plants that are better able to resist attacks and produce much better fruit. I also know that I will not be ingesting deadly chemicals to the extent that others who choose to eat non-organically produced produce will, and as a bonus, the flavor of the organic produce is much better every time. Case in point is my local competitor who sells his nice looking, chemically treated produce for less than I do. At the end of a typical day he has to dump rotting produce whereas I have nearly sold out my inventory of organic, tasty, not so perfect looking produce to repeat customers.
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