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Banana Plant Soil, Additives, and Fertilizer This forum is an area where you may discuss the soil to grow banana plants in, as well as soil additives such as teas, composts, manures, fertilizers and related topics.


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Old 08-12-2009, 09:16 AM   #81 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Future of Fertilizer

Well, to get back to your point Richard, N is not a problem because we make N based fertilizer from air using the Haber-Bosch process. P may be somewhat of a problem in the long run, since it is mined but it is often way over applied--it does not disappear like N--it usually binds to soil and stays there. K is available in seawater--it is between 2 and 4 % of sea salt. K is also a major component of most rocks. Mg is also between 2 and 4% of sea salt. Other trace minerals Iron, copper, boron are not that liminted.
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Old 08-12-2009, 12:05 PM   #82 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Future of Fertilizer

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Well, to get back to your point Richard, N is not a problem because we make N based fertilizer from air using the Haber-Bosch process. P may be somewhat of a problem in the long run, since it is mined but it is often way over applied--it does not disappear like N--it usually binds to soil and stays there. K is available in seawater--it is between 2 and 4 % of sea salt. K is also a major component of most rocks. Mg is also between 2 and 4% of sea salt. Other trace minerals Iron, copper, boron are not that limited.
About 1/3 of the N in water-solubles manufactured in the western U.S. is from air, the remaining 2/3 is currently from salt lakes in the west or South America. Nitrates "distilled" from sewage are a minor component here. However, the "big three" fertilizer companies are in negotiations with major municipalities because in terms of integrated toilet-to-tap water recycling programs the extraction of plant nutrients from sewage is the next best alternative. The least expensive form of potash here also comes from dry lakes and as a by-product of metals mined from cinder cones in the Great Basin (U.S.). As these sources diminish the "sewage source" is the next least expensive choice in terms of manufacturing.

The ornamental annual flower industry and consumers are the greatest abusers of phosphates. This may be coming to a rapid end (thank goodness) because this mineral is already in short supply. The wholesale price has tripled in the last year.
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Old 08-12-2009, 02:35 PM   #83 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Future of Fertilizer

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The ornamental annual flower industry and consumers are the greatest abusers of phosphates. This may be coming to a rapid end (thank goodness) because this mineral is already in short supply. The wholesale price has tripled in the last year.
Interesting, maybe that is why Wmart started selling P free fertilizers--I thought it might have been a local environmental regulation to protect our local estuaries that are fed by N rich groundwater (about 10 mg/L). In any case removal of nutrients from sewage will be good for the environment.
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Old 08-12-2009, 02:56 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Future of Fertilizer

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In any case removal of nutrients from sewage will be good for the environment.
I guess that depends on what company is manufacturing it.. Check out the article linked below..

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What the article (Lead in White House Veggie Garden) states is very true. It is also true that chemically refined sewage can have negligible heavy metal content -- excepting what's playing on the engineer's iPod. It all depends on the manufacturer.
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Old 08-12-2009, 03:14 PM   #85 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Future of Fertilizer

I was talking about removal of the nutrients from the sludge being good for the environment, not using the sludge--that contains many undesirable contaminants, including heavy metals, hormones, pharmaceuticals just to name a few.
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Old 08-12-2009, 11:17 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Future of Fertilizer

Everyone having fun still?
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Old 08-13-2009, 06:04 PM   #87 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: The Future of Fertilizer

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Interesting, maybe that is why Wmart started selling P free fertilizers--I thought it might have been a local environmental regulation to protect our local estuaries that are fed by N rich groundwater (about 10 mg/L). In any case removal of nutrients from sewage will be good for the environment.
I see you are in Florida. Indeed, Florida did pass some legislation greatly limiting the amount of phosphate in lawn fertilizer. (I believe it does not affect commercial Ag.) A handful of midwest states plus Maine have similar laws.

It may have passed in 2007 but went into effect this year. Or maybe it just passed this year after near-misses since 2007. Anyhow, it has been in the works for several years and did finally pass, but I can't find a link to the exact bill. Sorry.

Edit...this may help: http://indian.ifas.ufl.edu/PDF/2009/...Fert_Rules.pdf
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Old 08-13-2009, 06:53 PM   #88 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: The Future of Fertilizer

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The ornamental annual flower industry and consumers are the greatest abusers of phosphates. This may be coming to a rapid end (thank goodness) because this mineral is already in short supply. The wholesale price has tripled in the last year.
Yup.

I live in the county that sits right in the middle of the Bone Valley Deposit, the deposit used to produce about 75% of the US supply and 25% of the world supply of phosphate. My county is the most heavily mined, but there are mines in the counties all around mine.

(We are also former #1 citrus producer in FL, home of Cypress Gardens, Bok Tower, and lots of garage meth labs. If you are in to water gardens, you may have heard the word "Slocum." The old Slocum store (and home?) was here too. It closed before I moved to town, and the building was torn down while I lived here. Remnants of the plants, ponds, and landscaping are still visible.)

Here is the executive summary:

Environmental issues (regulations, toxic spills) have caused some slowdowns in domestic phosphate production and pushed it to 3rd world countries and increased cost.

As the mines in this county get used up the mining moves south, but they are pushing up against the south county line (Hardee) and are getting resistance from communities down there to opening more mines. If they can get the permits, some supply will be opened up and prices may ease some. If they can't get permits, price will remain high or rise.

They expect the deposit to run out in 25 to 50 years.

When you need something to put you to sleep, read about my home:
Polk County, Florida - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A 5 part story:
Sun - Florida: The State of Phosphate part 1
Sun - Florida: The State of Phosphate part 2
Sun - Florida: The State of Phosphate part 3
Sun - Florida: The State of Phosphate part 4
Sun - Florida: The State of Phosphate part 5
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Last edited by adrift : 08-13-2009 at 08:02 PM.
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Old 08-13-2009, 09:21 PM   #89 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Future of Fertilizer

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Yup.

I live in the county that sits right in the middle of the Bone Valley Deposit, the deposit used to produce about 75% of the US supply and 25% of the world supply of phosphate. My county is the most heavily mined, but there are mines in the counties all around mine.

(We are also former #1 citrus producer in FL, home of Cypress Gardens, Bok Tower, and lots of garage meth labs. If you are in to water gardens, you may have heard the word "Slocum." The old Slocum store (and home?) was here too. It closed before I moved to town, and the building was torn down while I lived here. Remnants of the plants, ponds, and landscaping are still visible.)

Here is the executive summary:

Environmental issues (regulations, toxic spills) have caused some slowdowns in domestic phosphate production and pushed it to 3rd world countries and increased cost.

As the mines in this county get used up the mining moves south, but they are pushing up against the south county line (Hardee) and are getting resistance from communities down there to opening more mines. If they can get the permits, some supply will be opened up and prices may ease some. If they can't get permits, price will remain high or rise.

They expect the deposit to run out in 25 to 50 years.

When you need something to put you to sleep, read about my home:
Polk County, Florida - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A 5 part story:
Sun - Florida: The State of Phosphate part 1
Sun - Florida: The State of Phosphate part 2
Sun - Florida: The State of Phosphate part 3
Sun - Florida: The State of Phosphate part 4
Sun - Florida: The State of Phosphate part 5
I was a marine scientist before I retired and studied eutrophication in estuaries---it was a long held philosophy that P was the nutrient that caused eutrophication in freshwaters, but that N was the limiting nutrient in marine and esturaine waters. However, we eventually did test here and found that there was already so much N coming in thru groundwater that P was actually the limiting nutrient. I think P has been implicated in some of the eutrophication in South FL estuaries as well--comming from mine runoffs and leaching from deposits as well as runoff from sugar plantations.

Adrift, Thanks for the link--I'm glad to hear that FL has limited P input on lawns--it is basically not needed here.

Last edited by sbl : 08-13-2009 at 09:28 PM.
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