Richard

One of the great things about fertigation is that you can mitigate the city water before it gets to the plants and thus the soil biology thrives.

The main differences between organic and inorganic water-solubles are (1) no nitrate compounds, and (2) no man-made amino acid chelates. Otherwise the organic-rated ionic compounds in an organic fertilizer come straight from a chemical factory.

__________________
Back in business at plantsthatproduce.com

Worm_Farmer

What if I dont feel like mixing, and just spreat 1 - 2 cups of water solubles around the base and wait for the rain to do its thing?

Richard

For many reasons, it needs to be dissolved in water before contacting a significant quantity of soil.

__________________
Back in business at plantsthatproduce.com

jeffaroo

the only problem with this injector is its for garden hose applications only. if you are looking for something to cut into your sprinkler system, try this. I have one in my back yard and I LOVE it. the guy makes all different sizes to fit your needs
Drip Irrigation Fertilizer Injector 1½ Quart Capacity ½" FPT Inlet Outlet | eBay

__________________
Keep shoveling on the potash till the ground bleeds

Richard

WARNING: although this product is advertised as "proportioning" it is actually non-proportional. 50% of the contents of the tank will be dispensed in the first 10% of flow -- and the majority of that to your first sprinkler/drip outlet.

__________________
Back in business at plantsthatproduce.com

harveyc

It is pretty difficult to know how the injector is designed without looking at it and taking it apart. According to the manufacturer, it is proportioning and the 1.5 quart model requires 75 gallons of flow for the fertilizer to be dispersed.

http://fertilizerdispensers.com/serv...portioning.pdf
http://fertilizerdispensers.com/serv...hure_table.pdf

Even if most of the fertilizer solution did get dispersed in the first 10% of the irrigation, the majority of that would not go to the first outlet unless you only had two outlets.

I cannot recommend the product without having more information or personal experience with it.

__________________

Richard

In the product description, you can read that This means that contents of the dispenser are continuously diluted. The more flow that passes through the system the weaker the concentration becomes. For the 1.5 quart size container, total replacement occurs at 200 x 1.5 qts = 300 qts = 75 gallons of flow. However, the concentration will drop geometrically and the concentration will be at 50% after the first 10% of flow; i.e., 7.5 gallons. Further, a typical irrigation pipe has a 5 gallon capacity from the valve to the 1st sprinkler head/drip outlet so the majority of the 7.5 gallons will be disbursed to the 1st outlet while the remaining outlets will receive the fresh water that was ahead of it in the pipe. After that, all outlets receive diminishing returns.

For a number of years the EZ-Flo company received criticism for this kind of design and the behavior I describe above was reported by a number of studies by universities and manufacturers alike. Finally, EZ-Flo modified it's design with a feedback loop to offset the geometric progression. It works a little better now. Still, no one in professional agriculture uses them. The choice for small scale systems is Venturi suction (e.g., devices made by Dramm and Grow More) and for larger scale the choice is water pressure driven pump injectors (e.g., Dosatron and Dosmatic).

__________________
Back in business at plantsthatproduce.com

harveyc

Richard, even if I have 5 gallons of solution in the pipeline to the first outlet, most of that will continue to flow to the following outlets. I understand the principles quite well having used commercial injectors for three orchards of about 8 acres and having successfully completed a course in irrigation engineering.

__________________

Richard

Exactly my point.

l have also studied irrigation injectors in detail. There is good reason for requiring constant concentration in delivery: one of them being the incompressibility of water. When it comes to outlets, the result is always "first come first served". This is very important to keep in mind when using an injector for chemigation.

__________________
Back in business at plantsthatproduce.com

harveyc

Richard, you wrote earlier that over half of the first 10% solution would go to the first outlet in the line. I then indicate most of it would continue to flow past the first outlet. And then you say that is exactly your point. These are not congruent.

There are different scenarios on how such an injector could deliver the fertilizer. If one began injecting into a drip hose (for either drip emitters or micro-sprinklers) that was empty when the water was turned on, much of the first 10% would go to the end of the line as water flowed to fill the drip hose. Such would be the case in my orchards which drain after my 5 HP pump is turned off (I pump about 125 GPM for my orchard). If someone was irrigating a line that was already full and the grower was using outlets that offered little resistance, a higher percentage of the solution would flow out of the first outlet.

I am not recommending the product but your explanation that a majority of the solution coming out of the first outlet simply is not accurate. It could actually work okay, releasing the fertilizer fairly evenly in all of the outlets in the right situations, though I certainly don't advocate such a quick injection of the fertilizer. My typical orchard irrigation is about 15 hours long and I inject fertilizer after the system has been running for a couple of hours (spending much of that time checking for coyote damage, etc.) and then inject my fertilizer solution over an hour or two. I use Mazzei verturi-style injectors which are the dominant product used in orchards in California.

__________________

Richard

Harvey, there are two basic scenarios: one with the downstream irrigation pipe nearly empty initially (downhill pipe) and the other with the same nearly full of water (an uphill pipe prior to fertigation). Fertilizer delivery is measured by non-interfering collectors (no back pressure) at each emitter. For the non-proportioinal systems: if the downstream pipe is nearly empty then by far the greatest concentration exits the terminal emitter, and for the opposite scenario the majority exits the 1st emitter. This effect is due to the rapid dilution of the tank. I have seen the test in the lab: you are welcome to experiment yourself.

Here in San Diego county there are plenty of landscape contractors that install EZ-Flo and other non-proportional fertigation products. A few years later the homeowner starts having serious problems and myself or one of the consulting firms (e.g., CPS) swaps their tank out for either a Dosatron or Dramm injector which for the same size system is 1/4 to 1/2 the price of the original non-proportional.

__________________
Back in business at plantsthatproduce.com

jeffaroo

I dont know what model your refering to, but the Dosatron that I found on ebay was $300. Im redoing my backyard and I want a cheap system to shoot into the lines. Hell.....maybe ill go old school and run a Mazzei with a bunch of ball valves manifolded

__________________
Keep shoveling on the potash till the ground bleeds

John1258

Hi...I am just getting back into Bananas But I was always told to use 20-20-20 and my tree wintered over in western Ky....

jeffaroo

Tripple 20 is a generic all purpose fertilizer. The idea behind "Fruit Fuel" is A two-one-three part fertilizer to promote good growth and plant health without forcing a bloom. (Middle number is for bloom) I havnt tried it yet but all the reads sound fantastic. I ordered some and it came today

__________________
Keep shoveling on the potash till the ground bleeds

jeffaroo

Ok so I cracked open my order of Fruit Fuel today and mixed op my first batch.. from my experience with other Growmore products, it usually pours out like salt. My order of Fruit Fuel however has the consistency of brown sugar. Is this normal ? Mixed my batch 3 tbps to a 3 1/2 gal bucket

__________________
Keep shoveling on the potash till the ground bleeds

Worm_Farmer

15 hours @ 125 gph? How does this not completly flood your field? I would think this would leave standing water everywhere. Do you water every other day? Just seems like A mini flood for someone like me.

Richard

For this formula, yes. Some of the minerals in the formula give it a hydroscopic nature. Also, there is no blue vegetable dye so main colors present are gray (from potash salts) and brown (from iron chelate). In next year's batch we are going to try adding a natural decoagulant so the product does not harden as much in storage.

__________________
Back in business at plantsthatproduce.com

jeffaroo

Might go get a tds meter and play with some ideas before making a purchase
only problem is I have high & low volume lines. But thats nothing a few jumper lines won't fix

__________________
Keep shoveling on the potash till the ground bleeds

Richard

It is a good idea to take measurements. The venturi devices require flow. If your water pressure is low (below 50psi) then I'd recommend an inline electric pump to maintain velocity. Harvey makes a good point about the Mazzei injectors -- who also manufacture venturi injectors for other brand names If you are considering the pressure-fed pumps, then visit the Dosatron and Dosmatic websites directly. In particular you'll see that Dosatron has systems for just about every pressure/flow situation. While you're doing that, get a list of recommended distributors for your area or online. That way you'll be sure to get all the parts.

__________________
Back in business at plantsthatproduce.com

jeffaroo

Ok so I've been a Fruit Fuel user for a week now, one thing I noticed right away. Fruit Fuel gives the strength to crack the p-stem for the plant to gain girth and take off. I've tried several fertilizer programs and never had these results so fast. Im sold on Richards program so far !!! Bravo sir, 5 stars !!!

__________________
Keep shoveling on the potash till the ground bleeds