Bananas.org

Welcome to the Bananas.org forums.

You're currently viewing our message boards as a guest which gives you limited access to participate in discussions and access our other features such as our wiki and photo gallery. By joining our community, you'll have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload photos, and access many other special features. Registration is fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Go Back   Bananas.org > Banana Forum > Banana Plant Soil, Additives, and Fertilizer
The Facebook Platform
Register Photo Gallery Classifieds Wiki Chat Map Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Banana Plant Soil, Additives, and Fertilizer This forum is an area where you may discuss the soil to grow banana plants in, as well as soil additives such as teas, composts, manures, fertilizers and related topics.


Members currently in the chatroom: 0
The most chatters online in one day was 17, 09-06-2009.
No one is currently using the chat.

Reply   Email this Page Email this Page
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-18-2010, 10:51 AM   #1 (permalink)
Willow87
 
Willow87's Avatar
 
Location: Plano, Texas
Zone: 8a
Name: Cameron
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,814
BananaBucks : 87,208
Feedback: 1 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 2,016 Times
Was Thanked 2,516 Times in 1,486 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 6 Times
Default Expanded Shale

I got some expanded shale last Saturday, and I have been doing some research on it. I read from a few sites that it works better than Perlite and Vermiculite. I was wondering if this is true. I put my banana plants in smaller pots and I added a layer of it at the bottom and then I mixed it in with the potting soil. I read that no matter how much water is added it will still retain 30% oxygen. I was wondering anyone else had any experiences with it. I believe it has a neutral pH.
Willow87 is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Willow87

Join Bananas.org Today!

Are you a banana plant enthusiast? Then we hope you will join the community. You will gain access to post, create threads, private message, upload images, join groups and more.

Bananas.org is owned and operated by fellow banana plant enthusiasts. We strive to offer a non-commercial community to learn and share information. Receive all three issues from Volume 1 of Bananas Magazine with your membership:
   

Join Bananas.org Today! - Click Here


Sponsors

Old 10-18-2010, 12:11 PM   #2 (permalink)
Retired.
 
Richard's Avatar
 
Location: Vista, CA
Zone: USDA 10b
Name: Richard
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,218
BananaBucks : 2,112
Feedback: 9 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 3,300 Times
Was Thanked 11,321 Times in 4,338 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,668 Times
Default Re: Expanded Shale

It is popular in hydroponic applications when the plant type needs physical structure for its roots.
__________________


8 million banana bucks and counting.
Frequently found at GrowingFruit.org
Richard is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Richard
Said thanks:
Old 10-18-2010, 12:26 PM   #3 (permalink)
Willow87
 
Willow87's Avatar
 
Location: Plano, Texas
Zone: 8a
Name: Cameron
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,814
BananaBucks : 87,208
Feedback: 1 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 2,016 Times
Was Thanked 2,516 Times in 1,486 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 6 Times
Default Re: Expanded Shale

Thanks Richard. I'm thinking about using it in a flowerbed next year. I knew it looked familiar. I've seen plants at Lowe's that used the expanded shale as a growing medium.
Willow87 is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Willow87
Old 10-18-2010, 12:55 PM   #4 (permalink)
Retired.
 
Richard's Avatar
 
Location: Vista, CA
Zone: USDA 10b
Name: Richard
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,218
BananaBucks : 2,112
Feedback: 9 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 3,300 Times
Was Thanked 11,321 Times in 4,338 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,668 Times
Default Re: Expanded Shale

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willow87 View Post
Thanks Richard. I'm thinking about using it in a flowerbed next year. I knew it looked familiar. I've seen plants at Lowe's that used the expanded shale as a growing medium.
It eventually breaks down into clay. I don't recommend it for long-term soil mixtures.
__________________


8 million banana bucks and counting.
Frequently found at GrowingFruit.org
Richard is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Richard
Old 10-18-2010, 01:01 PM   #5 (permalink)
Willow87
 
Willow87's Avatar
 
Location: Plano, Texas
Zone: 8a
Name: Cameron
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,814
BananaBucks : 87,208
Feedback: 1 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 2,016 Times
Was Thanked 2,516 Times in 1,486 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 6 Times
Default Re: Expanded Shale

How long does it usually take to break down? I read from a few horticulturist that it doesn't break down like perlite and that it can be used for long term. That's the first negative thing I've seen about expanded shale. Alot of people have recommended it.
Willow87 is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Willow87
Sponsors

Old 10-18-2010, 02:29 PM   #6 (permalink)
Retired.
 
Richard's Avatar
 
Location: Vista, CA
Zone: USDA 10b
Name: Richard
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,218
BananaBucks : 2,112
Feedback: 9 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 3,300 Times
Was Thanked 11,321 Times in 4,338 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,668 Times
Default Re: Expanded Shale

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willow87 View Post
How long does it usually take to break down? I read from a few horticulturist that it doesn't break down like perlite and that it can be used for long term. That's the first negative thing I've seen about expanded shale. Alot of people have recommended it.
Perlite is both a naturally-occurring and human-made foam from silicate minerals. It breaks down physically (i.e., crumbles) over time into glass silicate particles.

Expanded shale is manufactured from coal mine tailings (shale) by a similar process. It is slow to break down physically, but breaks down chemically (most notably from fertilizers) into clay silts.

Straight from the factory, expanded shale is sold for about US $6 per 4 cu.ft. sack, $30 per cu.yd., or $450 per container-load (not including freight). These are the same as manufacturers' prices for Perlite. So something is clearly wrong with the high prices and high-hype levels surrounding expanded shale.
__________________


8 million banana bucks and counting.
Frequently found at GrowingFruit.org
Richard is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Richard
Old 10-18-2010, 02:38 PM   #7 (permalink)
Willow87
 
Willow87's Avatar
 
Location: Plano, Texas
Zone: 8a
Name: Cameron
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,814
BananaBucks : 87,208
Feedback: 1 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 2,016 Times
Was Thanked 2,516 Times in 1,486 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 6 Times
Default Re: Expanded Shale

Ok so horticultural sand would be the only additive that would increase drainage besides organic matter? And would perlite be considered better than shale? Its so expensive to buy and i dont want to add vermiculite because its not good for soils that are already calcium rich.
Willow87 is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Willow87
Old 10-18-2010, 03:14 PM   #8 (permalink)
Retired.
 
Richard's Avatar
 
Location: Vista, CA
Zone: USDA 10b
Name: Richard
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,218
BananaBucks : 2,112
Feedback: 9 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 3,300 Times
Was Thanked 11,321 Times in 4,338 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,668 Times
Default Re: Expanded Shale

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willow87 View Post
i dont want to add vermiculite because its not good for soils that are already calcium rich.
Vermiculite is used in agriculture for:
(1) an ingredient when making a soil from raw materials, and typically in a fine-grained soil for seed starts or small potted plants.
(2) as a covering on newly planted seeds -- especially when surface-sown in "plug trays".
(3) a soil-less media in hydroponics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willow87 View Post
Ok so horticultural sand would be the only additive that would increase drainage besides organic matter?
For my clients who have fast-draining sandy soils, we mix in composted vegetative matter (at least 50%) to slow down the drainage and introduce carbon compounds into the soil. In extreme cases, we also add one ground-up brick of coir (1/2 cubic foot) per cubic yard of soil.

To improve clay soils, you need
(1) A source of acid to disassociate the clay minerals, typically ground-up sphagnum peat moss and/or humic acids.
(2) Larger grain sands, such as horticultural sand (in rock quarry jargon, it is 1/8th inch plus, 1/4 inch minus screened crushed cobble).
(3) A "sturdy" porous aggregate, such as 1/4 inch "plus" scoria or hard pumice. As a measure of the latter, if you can crush it with your foot it is not hard enough.
(4) Organic (vegetative) matter, preferably cured fine-grained compost.
(5) A small amount of worm castings or red-wriggler worms if not already present.
(6) A 3- to 4-inch thick layer of composted mulch, typically 1-inch diameter material with some fines and some longer pieces. This will provide a great environment for the worms and other beneficial critters to live in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willow87 View Post
And would perlite be considered better than shale? Its so expensive to buy
First of all, "perlite" and "expanded shale" should be selling for the same price per volume and a retail price of more than $3 per cu.ft. is expensive.

Second, "perlite" and "expanded shale" are different and have different uses. Perlite is a soil aerator for modest size pots and short term plantings -- you wouldn't use it in a soil for a permanently boxed tree. Expanded shale is a medium for florists, hydroponics, cymbidium orchids, some bromeliads, etc.
__________________


8 million banana bucks and counting.
Frequently found at GrowingFruit.org
Richard is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Richard
Old 10-18-2010, 03:21 PM   #9 (permalink)
Willow87
 
Willow87's Avatar
 
Location: Plano, Texas
Zone: 8a
Name: Cameron
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,814
BananaBucks : 87,208
Feedback: 1 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 2,016 Times
Was Thanked 2,516 Times in 1,486 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 6 Times
Default Re: Expanded Shale

ok thanks Richard
Willow87 is offline   Reply With Quote Send A Private Message To Willow87
Reply   Email this Page Email this Page

Previous Thread: Fertilizer Question
Next Thread: Trying out a new fertilizer





Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:12 AM.





Follow us:
Twitter YouTube

All content © Bananas.org & the respective author.