dirt

fishoifc · 11-11-2009, 05:33 PM

it seems like I spend alot of money on dirt. I know that some of you guys must use ten times more than I do,there has got to be a better way than what I am doing (miracle grow potting soil) was looking for opinions on this. Thanks

djmb74 · 11-11-2009, 06:19 PM

You need to find a local nursery supply house you get better stuff cheaper than miracle gro but you have to buy it in bigger sizes... like 3.8 cubic foot bails...

If you want to really save some money and have some room on your property you can have a nursery supply house mix up soil however you want it and deliver a whole truck load. That is what I will be doing this spring...

Bob · 11-11-2009, 08:12 PM

If you have some small space for a compost pile you could pile uup all your yard waste, kitchen scraps......old crab shells..etc and in a while you'll have some of the best stuff available. I'd amend it with some perlite or other materials...bark chips, sand for drainage and you ve got some great potting soil.

john_ny · 11-11-2009, 08:40 PM

I'm with Bob. We don't buy anything in bags like that. Also, no dirt in the mix! We use peat moss, perlite, compost, rotted horse manure, with a wetting agent (Aqua Grow), moisture retaining crystals, and time release fertilizer.

Abnshrek · 11-11-2009, 08:51 PM

I second the last 3 motions on Dirt :^)

turtile · 11-11-2009, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishoifc

it seems like I spend alot of money on dirt. I know that some of you guys must use ten times more than I do,there has got to be a better way than what I am doing (miracle grow potting soil) was looking for opinions on this. Thanks

Are you using the soil for pots or in the ground? If you are using it for potting, try to find Pro-Mix BX or Fafard Growing Mix #2 bails. Ace Hardware sells Pro-Mix bails where I live. The only bad thing about it is the fact that you have to wet the medium before use.

Like already mentioned, if you use your own compost, you must mix in with other media (vermiculite, perlite etc.).

If you are using it to amend outdoor soil, just use compost. Local farms may have extra manure they may want to give away. For adding soil outdoors, you probably won't have much luck finding anything cheap and high quality.

sbl · 11-12-2009, 10:53 AM

It depends on what you are growing, but I often use straight compost (made from grass clippings, leaves, pine straw, kitchen scraps) for bananas and container veggies. For some small plants, I do use a layer of commercial potting soil on the surface. For citrus in containers, I use pine bark chunks with a little potting soil==about 4:1.

djmb74 · 11-12-2009, 02:41 PM

What I have been doing is buying a few of the large bags of Premier Pro-Mix BX
with Mycorise and mixing it with stuff from my compost pile and some black kow. I also have a trash can full of vermiculite and another one full of peat moss and I mix that in too depending on what I am using it for. Soon as my worm farm gets finished I will be using that as well.

Worm_Farmer · 11-12-2009, 08:06 PM

To be honest I have been reusing my old dirt and mixing it with new dirt, compost, Worm Castings, Perlite, and Azomite. I also started a dirt pile out back that I mix Horse manure and compost in and also let my yard clippings lay and die.

But a local nursery is a good option.

Richard · 11-12-2009, 09:08 PM

When I make soil for myself I currently use:

2 buckets fine-grained humic compost (cooked and sifted greenery waste).
1 bucket Perlite (or Scoria -- for 20+ gallon tubs and long-term plantings).
1 bucket Horticultural Sand (this is 1/8 to 1/4 inch grain size).
1 bucket Sphagnum Peat Moss.
1 bucket Worm Castings.

Each bucket is 5 gallons and I use a clean cement mixer to mix it. The end cost is about $2 per cubic foot.

fishoifc · 11-12-2009, 09:40 PM

Ok I think I got some good Ideas, I dont have a compost pile I should have one by now, plenty of horses around here. I may be able to get all the things you mentioned Richard thats a good lookin recipe. Thanks for the help.

djmb74 · 11-12-2009, 09:58 PM

Make sure you let the horse manure compost before using...

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishoifc

Ok I think I got some good Ideas, I dont have a compost pile I should have one by now, plenty of horses around here. I may be able to get all the things you mentioned Richard thats a good lookin recipe. Thanks for the help.

Patty in Wisc · 11-15-2009, 01:47 AM

I still have a chance to get some free horse manure by Mike's house for the garden there. If we spread it out now & then till it in in spring, will that work? Thanks

djmb74 · 11-15-2009, 08:00 AM

Maybe this will help answer your question...

Quote:

A Guide to Composting Horse Manure

A Guide to Composting Horse Manure

by Jessica Paige, WSU Cooperative Extension, Whatcom County

If you've been stockpiling your manure in a single pile for as long as you can remember, you may have found that if you dig into the middle of the pile, you'll find something that resembles dirt more than it does manure. If this is the case, at least some of your manure has already gone through the decomposition, or composting, process. Manure that has been left uncovered in large, spread out piles will eventually compost. However, this version of composting often creates unpleasant odors because there is not enough air reaching the inside of the pile. These piles also rarely reach high enough temperatures to kill parasites, fly larvae, weed seeds, and pathogens. The following information on composting will help you learn how to compost all of your manure, instead of what's just in the middle, speed up the process dramatically, and help heat manure up to temperatures that will kill parasites, fly larvae, weed seeds, and pathogens.
The Benefits of Composting
Horse Health

Reduce flies. A well-managed compost pile will reach temperatures high enough to kill fly eggs and larvae in manure. By reducing the amount of uncomposted manure you have, you'll also reduce breeding grounds for flies.

Kill parasites and pathogens. The high temperatures achieved through composting also kill worms and pathogens (organisms such as bacteria, viruses, fungi, and protozoa that are capable of producing an infection or disease). This is especially important if you are spreading your manure in the same fields your horses graze in or on vegetable gardens.

Convenience and Aesthetics

Reduce odors. A well-managed compost pile will be free of the odors often associated with an uncomposted manure pile.

Cut your pile in half. Composting reduces bulk and has 40 to 60 percent less volume and weight than uncomposted manure. That means you can reduce the amount of your manure pile by about 50 percent by composting!

Kill weed seeds. The high temperatures achieved through composting will kill most weed seeds.

Improve marketability. Compost is much more marketable than uncomposted manure and is often used by topsoil companies, landscapers, nurseries, and organic farmers. You may be able to sell your compost and actually make money out of that mountain of manure!

Even out grazing patterns. Horses grazing in pastures spread with composted manure (instead of fresh manure) are more likely to graze normally and are less likely to restrict grazing to areas with the thinnest application rates.

Healthy Soil

Improve aeration and water retention. Adding compost to soil builds good soil structure and texture, increasing the amount of air that can infiltrate and the amount of water it can hold. Adding compost to heavy clay soil loosens the packed soil by opening up pore spaces that, like little tunnels, carry air and water down into the soil. Sandy soils, which tend to let water drain away too rapidly, are also improved with the addition of compost. The fine particles are united into larger ones that can hold a greater amount of water-100 pounds of compost can hold about 195 pounds of water! By increasing the soil's moisture-holding capacity, compost also helps control erosion that would otherwise wash topsoil away.

Supply nutrients. When fresh manure is spread on a field, about 50 percent of the nitrogen is in a highly soluble form and will be washed out by rain when it is spread on a pasture. In compost, however, 95 to 97 percent of nitrogen has been converted to a much more stable form and will be slowly released, allowing plants to use it over a longer period of time. Compost doles out nutrients slowly when plants are small and at greater rates as soil temperatures warm up and the major growth period begins. (Soil microorganisms that release the nutrients from compost work harder as temperatures increase.) The benefits of adding compost will also last for more than one season. Composted manure releases about 50 percent of its nutrients in the first season and a decreasing percentage in the following years. This means that with constant additions of compost, the reserves of plant nutrients in the soil are being built up to the point where, for several seasons, little fertilizer of any kind may be needed.

Bacteria, earthworms, and pH. Compost also supports essential soil bacteria; feeds earthworms and allows them to multiply; and gradually changes soil pH levels that are either too low (acidic) or too high (alkaline).

The Environment

Protect water quality. Because the composting process converts nitrogen into a less soluble form, it is less likely to be washed out of manure and into ground water and surface water. Excessive amounts of nitrate in drinking water can cause health problems such as blue baby syndrome and may be linked to cancer and birth defects. Recent samplings of wells in northern Whatcom County have found nitrate levels above the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's safe drinking water standards.

Protect fish and shellfish. When rain falls on soil rich with compost, raindrops seep into it. When rain falls on packed soil rain runs off the surface, creating erosion and carrying soil particles to nearby waterways. Sediment can smother trout and salmon eggs and make water cloudy, making it more difficult for fish to find insects to eat. Raw manure also contains fecal coliform bacteria which is commonly used to measure contamination of water from human or animal waste. The coliform bacteria may not necessarily produce disease, but can indicate the presence of other bacteria that may cause infections, hepatitis, and other illnesses. When coliform bacteria is found in the water around shellfish growing areas, it often leads to shellfish bed closures. Composting kills most of these coliform bacteria as well as viruses and parasites that may be a concern to human health.

Conserve our natural resources. Using compost instead of chemical fertilizers can reduce our use of non-renewable resources like natural gas. Approximately two percent of the natural gas consumed in the United States goes into the manufacturing of nitrogen fertilizer.

capthof · 11-15-2009, 02:28 PM

I found a Bushel Stop store or a local nusery may have some potting soil.
It cost $25.00 to $30.00 per yard already mixed with perlite and ready to go.
The worms love it and leave their casings in return for a good home.
We compost too, but I just use that for top dressing.
After several years of dumping and re-potting I have some of the best soil in the neighborhood.

Richard · 11-15-2009, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capthof

I found a Bushel Stop store or a local nusery may have some potting soil.
It cost $25.00 to $30.00 per yard already mixed with perlite and ready to go.
The worms love it and leave their casings in return for a good home.
We compost too, but I just use that for top dressing.
After several years of dumping and re-potting I have some of the best soil in the neighborhood.

That's a good price per cubic yard of mixed soil.

With regard to top-dressing soil -- studies done by UC Davis Farm Extension have shown that top dressing with compost is no better and sometimes worse than top dressing with 3-4 inches of 1-inch diameter mulch. However, when the compost is put down as a soil finisher and then covered with mulch -- this is the best situation.

cherokee_greg · 11-17-2009, 04:13 PM

anyone tried this stuff kinda allot of money
Roots Grow Supply Happy Frog Soil (46/pallet)

Richard · 11-17-2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cherokee_greg

anyone tried this stuff kinda allot of money
Roots Grow Supply Happy Frog Soil (46/pallet)

I could not figure out what quantity you would receive for $24.95. I sent them an email.

sunfish · 11-17-2009, 08:04 PM

Happy Frog Potting Soil, 2 cubic feet (51.4 dry qts)
$18.99 new - Amazon.com

Richard · 11-17-2009, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunfish

Happy Frog Potting Soil, 2 cubic feet (51.4 dry qts)
$18.99 new - Amazon.com

Thanks, the email I sent to "RootsGrow" bounced. Anyway, the frog fertilizer appears low in minerals. In Fresno there are a lot of Ag supply stores. You can do better for a lot less money.

11-11-2009, 05:33 PM	#1 (permalink)
fishoifc Marlin time fishoifc's Photo Gallery Location: Nags head N.C. Zone: 8 Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 339 BananaBucks : 133,154 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 27 Times Was Thanked 331 Times in 131 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 3 Times	dirt it seems like I spend alot of money on dirt. I know that some of you guys must use ten times more than I do,there has got to be a better way than what I am doing (miracle grow potting soil) was looking for opinions on this. Thanks

11-11-2009, 06:19 PM	#2 (permalink)
djmb74 djmb74's Photo Gallery Location: Longwood. Florida Find me on the map! Zone: 9b Name: Martin Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 631 BananaBucks : 262,122 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 334 Times Was Thanked 642 Times in 243 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 130 Times	Re: dirt You need to find a local nursery supply house you get better stuff cheaper than miracle gro but you have to buy it in bigger sizes... like 3.8 cubic foot bails... If you want to really save some money and have some room on your property you can have a nursery supply house mix up soil however you want it and deliver a whole truck load. That is what I will be doing this spring... __________________ PEOPLE WILL FORGET WHAT YOU SAID. PEOPLE WILL FORGET WHAT YOU DID. *BUT PEOPLE WILL NEVER FORGET HOW YOU MADE THEM FEEL!

11-11-2009, 08:12 PM	#3 (permalink)
Bob Orang Puteh Bob's Photo Gallery Location: Washington Twp N.J. Find me on the map! Zone: 6a Name: bob Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3,528 BananaBucks : 229,091 Feedback: 12 / 100% Said "Thanks" 9,537 Times Was Thanked 4,058 Times in 1,694 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 565 Times	Re: dirt If you have some small space for a compost pile you could pile uup all your yard waste, kitchen scraps......old crab shells..etc and in a while you'll have some of the best stuff available. I'd amend it with some perlite or other materials...bark chips, sand for drainage and you ve got some great potting soil. __________________

11-11-2009, 08:40 PM	#4 (permalink)
john_ny Member john_ny's Photo Gallery Location: Staten Island, NY - southernmost county in NY State. Find me on the map! Zone: USDA7- Sunset34 Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,014 BananaBucks : 736,028 Feedback: 5 / 100% Said "Thanks" 1,057 Times Was Thanked 2,284 Times in 832 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 37 Times	Re: dirt I'm with Bob. We don't buy anything in bags like that. Also, no dirt in the mix! We use peat moss, perlite, compost, rotted horse manure, with a wetting agent (Aqua Grow), moisture retaining crystals, and time release fertilizer. __________________ John

11-11-2009, 08:51 PM	#5 (permalink)
Abnshrek Happy Growing Abnshrek 's Photo Gallery Location: Beaumont Texas Find me on the map! Zone: 8b, but 9b weather.. Name: Migael / Michael Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 9,493 BananaBucks : 266,286 Feedback: 45 / 100% Said "Thanks" 10,447 Times Was Thanked 16,443 Times in 5,238 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2,318 Times	Re: dirt I second the last 3 motions on Dirt :^) __________________ I'm a Nannerhead :^)

Members currently in the chatroom: 0
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11-12-2009, 10:53 AM	#7 (permalink)
sbl sbl's Photo Gallery Location: Pensacola, FL Find me on the map! Zone: 8/9 Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,013 BananaBucks : 75,953 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 177 Times Was Thanked 733 Times in 395 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 154 Times	Re: dirt It depends on what you are growing, but I often use straight compost (made from grass clippings, leaves, pine straw, kitchen scraps) for bananas and container veggies. For some small plants, I do use a layer of commercial potting soil on the surface. For citrus in containers, I use pine bark chunks with a little potting soil==about 4:1.

11-12-2009, 02:41 PM	#8 (permalink)
djmb74 djmb74's Photo Gallery Location: Longwood. Florida Find me on the map! Zone: 9b Name: Martin Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 631 BananaBucks : 262,122 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 334 Times Was Thanked 642 Times in 243 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 130 Times	Re: dirt What I have been doing is buying a few of the large bags of Premier Pro-Mix BX with Mycorise and mixing it with stuff from my compost pile and some black kow. I also have a trash can full of vermiculite and another one full of peat moss and I mix that in too depending on what I am using it for. Soon as my worm farm gets finished I will be using that as well. __________________ PEOPLE WILL FORGET WHAT YOU SAID. PEOPLE WILL FORGET WHAT YOU DID. *BUT PEOPLE WILL NEVER FORGET HOW YOU MADE THEM FEEL!

11-12-2009, 08:06 PM	#9 (permalink)
Worm_Farmer Worm_Farmer 's Photo Gallery Location: Palm Bay, FL Zone: 9b Name: Mike Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,533 BananaBucks : 79,478 Feedback: 14 / 100% Said "Thanks" 5,326 Times Was Thanked 1,830 Times in 679 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2,866 Times	Re: dirt To be honest I have been reusing my old dirt and mixing it with new dirt, compost, Worm Castings, Perlite, and Azomite. I also started a dirt pile out back that I mix Horse manure and compost in and also let my yard clippings lay and die. But a local nursery is a good option.

11-12-2009, 09:08 PM	#10 (permalink)
Richard un-Retired Richard's Photo Gallery Location: Vista, CA Find me on the map! Zone: USDA 10b Name: Richard Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 9,674 BananaBucks : 720,977 Feedback: 9 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,636 Times Was Thanked 12,537 Times in 4,719 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,685 Times	Re: dirt When I make soil for myself I currently use: 2 buckets fine-grained humic compost (cooked and sifted greenery waste). 1 bucket Perlite (or Scoria -- for 20+ gallon tubs and long-term plantings). 1 bucket Horticultural Sand (this is 1/8 to 1/4 inch grain size). 1 bucket Sphagnum Peat Moss. 1 bucket Worm Castings. Each bucket is 5 gallons and I use a clean cement mixer to mix it. The end cost is about $2 per cubic foot. __________________ Back in business at plantsthatproduce.com

11-12-2009, 09:40 PM	#11 (permalink)
fishoifc Marlin time fishoifc's Photo Gallery Location: Nags head N.C. Zone: 8 Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 339 BananaBucks : 133,154 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 27 Times Was Thanked 331 Times in 131 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 3 Times	Re: dirt Ok I think I got some good Ideas, I dont have a compost pile I should have one by now, plenty of horses around here. I may be able to get all the things you mentioned Richard thats a good lookin recipe. Thanks for the help.

11-15-2009, 01:47 AM	#13 (permalink)
Patty in Wisc tropical nut Patty in Wisc's Photo Gallery Zone: 5 Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,115 BananaBucks : 379,752 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 2,946 Times Was Thanked 2,510 Times in 1,203 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 69 Times	Re: dirt I still have a chance to get some free horse manure by Mike's house for the garden there. If we spread it out now & then till it in in spring, will that work? Thanks __________________ Got a lite? Patty ____ Patty in Wisc has sadly passed away 9/05/11. We will miss you Patty.

11-15-2009, 02:28 PM	#15 (permalink)
capthof capthof's Photo Gallery Location: Jupiter; Fl Find me on the map! Zone: 10 Name: Scott Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 408 BananaBucks : 15,574 Feedback: 2 / 100% Said "Thanks" 45 Times Was Thanked 367 Times in 103 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 49 Times	Re: dirt I found a Bushel Stop store or a local nusery may have some potting soil. It cost $25.00 to $30.00 per yard already mixed with perlite and ready to go. The worms love it and leave their casings in return for a good home. We compost too, but I just use that for top dressing. After several years of dumping and re-potting I have some of the best soil in the neighborhood. __________________

11-17-2009, 04:13 PM	#17 (permalink)
cherokee_greg Love those bananas cherokee_greg's Photo Gallery Location: Fresno,CA Find me on the map! Zone: zone 9 Name: Greg Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 4,357 BananaBucks : 329,651 Feedback: 2 / 100% Said "Thanks" 8,066 Times Was Thanked 3,946 Times in 1,665 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 335 Times	Re: dirt anyone tried this stuff kinda allot of money Roots Grow Supply Happy Frog Soil (46/pallet) __________________ Greg zone 9 Fresno,CA http://gardenjot.com/garden/view/1980/Gregs-Banana-Farm

11-17-2009, 08:04 PM	#19 (permalink)
sunfish Banned sunfish's Photo Gallery Location: San Diego Find me on the map! Zone: 9-11 Name: Tony Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 18,429 BananaBucks : 1,238,106 Feedback: 8 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,210 Times Was Thanked 20,592 Times in 7,760 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2,716 Times	Re: dirt Happy Frog Potting Soil, 2 cubic feet (51.4 dry qts) $18.99 new - Amazon.com

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