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Banana Plant Soil, Additives, and Fertilizer This forum is an area where you may discuss the soil to grow banana plants in, as well as soil additives such as teas, composts, manures, fertilizers and related topics.


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Old 05-01-2012, 01:49 PM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Default Creating my own Fert

Mixing my own Fert is my newest idea.

After reading the forum, realizing that the best ratio of giving fert ist 4-1-6 NPK is I decided to create my own fert.

Another reason is, this way its cheaper than buying ready-fert, that has also not the perfect NPK-ratio for bananas.

The Fert I am feeding the bananas is 10-2,5-15, for creating this I use Ormin-k a organic-potas fert, with 30% K2O it has a ph of 5-7,

My second ingredient ist Urea (here its called Üre) has a N of 46 %.

My third ingredient is 18-46, it has 18%N and 46% 'Fosfor`.

So When I use two bags of Ormin-K I have 15 kg net K, when I use 5,4 kg 18-46 I have about 2,5 kg P,

Whats left is the N I need 10 kg, with the 18-46 I have already 972 gr, to complete the amount I have to add 9kg and 28gr,

I get this from the urea, I have to add about 19,6 kg to the mix to get my formula.


So I have 10 kg of Nitrat, 2,5kg of Phosfor and 15 kg of Kalium.

I give this mix to my plants in one watering every 21 days.

When I have 450 bananas every banana gets 33 gr K, 22g N and 5,5gr P with every watering every 21days.

I am using this mix for about six weeks.

What do you think about this amount and the mix? Any suggestions, any ideas ?




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Old 05-01-2012, 01:54 PM   #2 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Creating my own Fert

Quote:
Originally Posted by bananafarmer View Post
Mixing my own Fert is mey newest idea.

After reading the forum, realizing that the best ratio of giving fert ist 4-1-6 NPK is I decided to create my own fert.

Another reason is, this way its cheaper than buying ready-fert, that has also not the perfect NPK-ratio for bananas.

The Fert I am feeding the bananas is 10-2,5-15, for creating this I use Ormin-k a organic-potas fert, with 30% K2O it has a ph of 5-7,

My second ingredient ist Urea (here its called Üre) has a N of 46 %.

My third ingredient is 18-46, it has 18%N and 46% 'Fosfor`.

So When I use two bags of Ormin-K I have 15 kg net K, when I use 5,4 kg 18-46 I have about 1,5 kg P,

Whats left is the N I need 10 kg, with the 18-46 I have already 972 gr, to complete the amount I have to add 9kg and 28gr,

I get this from the urea, I have to add about 19,6 kg to the mix to get my formula.


So I have 10 kg of Nitrat, 2,5kg of Phosfor and 15 kg of Kalium.

I give this mix to my plants in one watering every 21 days.

When I have 450 bananas every banana gets 33 gr K, 22g N and 5,5gr with every watering every 21days.

I am using this mix for about six weeks.

What do you thing about this amount and the mix? Any suggestions, any ideas ?
Over my head but sounds good to me
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Old 05-01-2012, 05:19 PM   #3 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Creating my own Fert

Good luck, we use all organic and sometimes it isn't what we want but we still know what is in the mix. Nice thing about organic that if it is mixed right one cannot over fertilize. Here the soil is very sandy, actually we live on a 160 foot sand dune, so in the garden area we use worm composted cow manure and pine needle compost.
This puts in most of the needed nutrients and the carbon, and some room to breathe. When a plant is ready to go into the ground we add microrhizal fungi to the roots and water in good. Many use Thrive or an equivilent to improve the root system and its ability to absorb nutrients from the soil. Wish you luck and post results please.
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Old 05-01-2012, 07:58 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Creating my own Fert

Quote:
Originally Posted by bananafarmer View Post
I give this mix to my plants in one watering every 21 days.

When I have 450 bananas every banana gets 33 gr K, 22g N and 5,5gr P with every watering every 21days.

I am using this mix for about six weeks.


Your computations are excellent.

Here is something to compare to: If each plant receives about 57 gallons (216 liters) water total every three weeks, then the amount of N-P-K is nearly ideal. It would be equivalent to 100ppm Nitrogen, 25ppm Phosphate, 150ppm Potash concentration in water.

To calculate ppm concentration in water, for example of Nitrogen:

[Total lbs] • [% N] • (1600 / 135) • (100 / Gallons) • (100 / IR) = [ppm N]

where
[Total lbs] = total pounds of fertilizer mix
[% N] = percentage of Nitrogen in the fertilizer mix
Gallons = gallons of water being used with the mix
IR = injection ratio. If you are not using a fertilizer injector, then IR = 1.

It appears you are only supplying your bananas with raw N-P-K. They would both perform better and taste better with a micronutrients supplement. An inexpensive way to do this is with Liquid Seaweed Extract. It is not balanced for plants, but is better than none.

Happy Growing!
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:11 PM   #5 (permalink)
 
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Red face Re: Creating my own Fert

I have much to learn! I was just going to use MG.
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Old 05-01-2012, 10:56 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Creating my own Fert

You've got the big 3 covered, Don't shortchange your plants on the other macro and micronutrients. If your pH is high(>7) you might run short on Mn, Zn an B.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:02 AM   #7 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Creating my own Fert

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard View Post


Your computations are excellent.

Here is something to compare to: If each plant receives about 57 gallons (216 liters) water total every three weeks, then the amount of N-P-K is nearly ideal. It would be equivalent to 100ppm Nitrogen, 25ppm Phosphate, 150ppm Potash concentration in water.

To calculate ppm concentration in water, for example of Nitrogen:

[Total lbs] • [% N] • (1600 / 135) • (100 / Gallons) • (100 / IR) = [ppm N]

where
[Total lbs] = total pounds of fertilizer mix
[% N] = percentage of Nitrogen in the fertilizer mix
Gallons = gallons of water being used with the mix
IR = injection ratio. If you are not using a fertilizer injector, then IR = 1.

It appears you are only supplying your bananas with raw N-P-K. They would both perform better and taste better with a micronutrients supplement. An inexpensive way to do this is with Liquid Seaweed Extract. It is not balanced for plants, but is better than none.

Happy Growing!
The ppm-aspect is really interesting, never did it this way, I suppose also it is difficult for me to make according to ppm-ratio.

I have sprinkler-system, before feeding the plants with fert I water about fifteen minutes to prepare the plants and the soil,

then I give the fert in a 220 liter barrel, not at one time, giving some amount to the barrell mix it with water and do this a few times again.

This is because for better distrubuting the fert, also I do not want to burn the bananas, suppose urea can burn , when high ppm in water.

After giving fert I go on with watering for about 15 minutes, I check visually and sometimes I am digging the soil a little .


The micro-nutrients-aspect is a aspect that I have to care more about.

A few days ago I bought an american product called Rally, from the Nutri Phites series, produced by Biagro Western Sales INC., looks like a very good product for me.

I give it once a week now to the plants , the amount is 300 g evry use. Hope this is a good amount.




Nutri Phite Rally has 0,4% Bor ,1,5% Copper, 12% Iron ,3,5% Mangan, 4% Zinc, 2% Magnesium, and 14% S (sulfur).

I also give Humic Acid to the plants, about 1,5 liters every week, I could buy some canister with 20 liters for a very good price.


According to the company the product is usable for organic farming, the product itself is called organic.

The product is called Toromol, from a turkish companya called Makrotarim.

Last edited by bananafarmer : 05-02-2012 at 12:17 AM.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:08 AM   #8 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Creating my own Fert

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Naranja View Post
You've got the big 3 covered, Don't shortchange your plants on the other macro and micronutrients. If your pH is high(>7) you might run short on Mn, Zn an B.
In the next time I will buy a ph-analyzer, really have to check the value of my soil and water.

The aspect of the macro and micronutrients seems to be very important, I also believe its difficult to make it perfect.

Some reasons, I leave the leafs and all the banana-stuff inside the greenhouse, it is becoming compost and surely has a lot of nutrients inside, this is good , but the truth is I don not know in which amounts , and I do knot know which elements may be too little.

I never made a soil-analysis, so I do not know my soil-condition.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:15 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Creating my own Fert

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I also give Humic Acid to the plants, about 1,5 liters every week, I could buy some canister with 20 liters for a very good price.
Humic acid is a soil conditioner and not a plant nutrient. 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of water 3 times per year is plenty. Do not spray it on the plants, it can clog pores and provide a substrate for fungi to grow in. If you did spray it on your plants and it is not going to rain for awhile I would rinse them off.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:22 AM   #10 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Creating my own Fert

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Humic acid is a soil conditioner and not a plant nutrient. 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of water 3 times per year is plenty. Do not spray it on the plants, it can clog pores and provide a substrate for fungi to grow in. If you did spray it on your plants and it is not going to rain for awhile I would rinse them off.
I give the Humic acid with the sprinkler-system, all the soil gets it, the leafs do not come in contact with it, my sprinkler-system is about 40 cm above the ground.

I realize maybe I am giving Humic Acid much to much. Can it harm the soil?

Many people here use Humic Acid once a week, 500 ml for one hectare. I heard it helps the plant to take the nutritients and creates a better soil.I do not have bad experince with it.

The Humic acid also comprises organic material, suppose bananas like this.

I give this one


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Old 05-02-2012, 12:43 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Creating my own Fert

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I give the Humic acid with the sprinkler-system, all the soil gets it, the leafs do not come in contact with it, my sprinkler-system is about 40 cm above the ground.
Good

Quote:
Originally Posted by bananafarmer View Post
I realize maybe I am giving Humic Acid much to much. Can it harm the soil?
At some point too much carbon and electrolytes will slow down other processes.

Further, you are wasting money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bananafarmer View Post
The Humic acid also comprises organic material.
In terms of carbon chemistry, it is an organic compound. With the exception of CO2, N, and plant hormones, plants uptake inorganic minerals -- not organic material.

Relative to your fertilizer mixture, here are the proportions of secondary and micronutrients I would suggest -- and especially in these ratios to each other. Of course, if your soil already contains some of these, then the individual values need to be changed so that the overall ratios to each other are maintained.

0.8% S
1.6% Mg
3.2% Ca
0.1% Fe
0.01% Cu
0.02% Mn
0.01% Zn
0.02% B
0.001% Co
0.001% Mo
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Old 05-02-2012, 01:07 AM   #12 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Creating my own Fert

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Good




0.8% S
1.6% Mg
3.2% Ca
0.1% Fe
0.01% Cu
0.02% Mn
0.01% Zn
0.02% B
0.001% Co
0.001% Mo
I understand this, when I have all thes elements separated in liquid form, I could make my own mix.

What is the amount for one plant per year, how often should I give micronutrients?

I know it is difficult to answer this exactly, but any information can help me to create bench marks.

And thank you for your infos Richard.
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Old 05-02-2012, 11:03 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Creating my own Fert

This might help you ...

Suppose you were to supply micronutrients every time you watered. I would use this concentration in the total amount of water, including your pre-soak.

The amounts are in ppm:

S 28.5
Mg 57
Ca 114
Fe 2.67
Cu 0.2
Mn 0.75
Zn 0.3
B 0.67
Co 0.0357
Mo 0.0475

It's not an easy set of ratios to get. The main problem is that common sources of Magnesium include equal parts of Sulfur. You might also find it helpful to look for EDHA chelates.
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Old 05-07-2012, 08:20 AM   #14 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Creating my own Fert

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard View Post
This might help you ...

Suppose you were to supply micronutrients every time you watered. I would use this concentration in the total amount of water, including your pre-soak.

The amounts are in ppm:

S 28.5
Mg 57
Ca 114
Fe 2.67
Cu 0.2
Mn 0.75
Zn 0.3
B 0.67
Co 0.0357
Mo 0.0475

It's not an easy set of ratios to get. The main problem is that common sources of Magnesium include equal parts of Sulfur. You might also find it helpful to look for EDHA chelates.
Thank you for your advise, at the moment I am not able to water according to ppm.

But I am creatig a nutri-mix according to the amounts you wrote.

I went shopping today,

I bought: Bor(5Liter) liquid form with 5%

, Mangan 5Liter with 3%

, Calcium 5 Liter with 10%

, Cu 5Liter with 5 % ,

Zn 25 kg with 22%,

FE 25 kg with 17 % ,

Magnesium 25 kg with 16% (also has 32 %Sulfur)

Also Sulfur 50 kg with 98%,

When I mix the amounts within water(complete 10 Liter) I add:

100 gr Mg, 320 gr Ca, 6gr Fe, 2 gr Cu, 6,6gr Mn , 0,5 gr Zn, 4gr Bor.

I get your numbers , the pure amount I get is : 16 gr Mg, 32 gr Ca, 1gr Fe, 0,1 gr Cu, 0,2 gr Mn, 0,1 gr Zn, 0,2 gr Bor. I also get 32gr Sulfur ,which is 24 gr too much.

As you mentioned before many Magnesium-supplements inhibit too much Sulfur, mine inhibits 32%, means when I use 100 gr Mg, I also give 32 gr Sulfur, which is 24 gr too much.

What do you think is it very important?

I can try to find a source with pure Mg, without Sulfur.

What do you think about this mix?

I could not find Co and Mo yet, just in mixed-form, not pure. I spent about 200 bucks for all this stuff. Hope it will suffice for a few years.

Last edited by bananafarmer : 05-07-2012 at 08:31 AM.
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:59 AM   #15 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Creating my own Fert

You could try magnesium nitrate, this has no Sulphur and gives you nitrogen.
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:28 AM   #16 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Creating my own Fert

i know richard wont say..but ive read many places that he sells/makes
a good banana fertilizer..with all our herbaceaous friends love..
i think im going to buy from him.. other sellers of "banana fuel"
are much more..especially shipping..
just a thought..
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:51 AM   #17 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Creating my own Fert

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i know richard wont say..but ive read many places that he sells/makes
a good banana fertilizer..with all our herbaceaous friends love..
i think im going to buy from him.. other sellers of "banana fuel"
are much more..especially shipping..
just a thought..
I would be in America, as a hobby-banana-farmer, I would buy from Richard.

He has really good products and is supporting the customers really good, that is as important as the product itself,

I know many distributors here in Turkey who sell the hell to customers, the customers are forced to use dozens of products in gigantic amounts, what the plants never need.

But I am in Turkey, far away, need big amounts of fuel, I buy my products at the local governmental distributor, the prices are really good there, it is for supporting agriculture.

I do not want to interfere in something.
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:59 AM   #18 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Creating my own Fert

my bad bananafarmer..i should have read earlier u r in turkey..
ya..shipping would kill ya..LOL
ive learned alot on my ferilizing routine,correct balances,plus' and minus'
of organic/inorganic materials..
2 yrs ago..my poor babies were starving out there..i was going on
thinking..frequent fertilizing at low dosages was good.. my tropicals
did ok..but poor things needed much more than i was giving them..
lesson learned..
alot of good people here.. ive learned alot !!!

good luck to ya on your confirguration of fertilizing !!!!!
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:31 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: Creating my own Fert

Quote:
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... As you mentioned before many Magnesium-supplements inhibit too much Sulfur, mine inhibits 32%, means when I use 100 gr Mg, I also give 32 gr Sulfur, which is 24 gr too much.

What do you think is it very important?

I can try to find a source with pure Mg, without Sulfur.

What do you think about this mix?
Well, you have too much sulfur because the wrong set of oxides were chosen. To put the puzzle together correctly requires a lot of work with pencil and paper (or keyboard and spreadsheet!) to find a combination of minerals that will achieve the desired proportions.

Good luck!
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:52 AM   #20 (permalink)
 
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Well, you have too much sulfur because the wrong set of oxides were chosen. To put the puzzle together correctly requires a lot of work with pencil and paper (or keyboard and spreadsheet!) to find a combination of minerals that will achieve the desired proportions.

Good luck!
I will add magnesium without sulfur, I suppose at least my proportions of the nutritions are good. I suppose I am on a good way.

I suppose the products I use are also not bad, two of them have EDTA , chelat-proportion.

One product I was trying to use is not possible to be used with water , its not dissolving in water,it is my powder sulfur (98 %).I have to find a fluid one.

It is good for spreading per hand, and I suppose it is good for killing ants and vermin, but just to be applied on the soil not the plants, suppose it is too strong.

I will learn more and more about nutritions, but at this stage I think my mix will develop and is not that bad.
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