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Banana Plant Soil, Additives, and Fertilizer This forum is an area where you may discuss the soil to grow banana plants in, as well as soil additives such as teas, composts, manures, fertilizers and related topics.


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Old 03-24-2009, 12:32 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: AZ41 - multi-purpose spray

Quote:
Originally Posted by harveyc View Post
I can't use the information as I wish because you're not giving us a link to the Grow More products as I asked.
Harvey,
I think you missed this post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard View Post
As you know, fertilizer manufacturers have traditional retail products they sell to the public but for the Ag industry: they have several sets of base, conditioning, nutrient, and pesticide packages which can be combined to meet a particular agricultural or product need. These custom combinations are typically sold high-volume containers unless the order is in large enough quantities to merit bottling it in smaller (e.g., gallon, 2-liter, quart) sizes. So for example, the exotic liquid fertilizers that pot farmers buy are really just re-packaged Grow More or Scotts products at an exorbitant price.
Looking at the analysis of AZ41, I see this can be met with 2 base packages plus 2 nutrient packages currently available from Grow More and probably several other manufacturers.
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Old 03-24-2009, 12:34 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: AZ41 - multi-purpose spray

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Harvey,

I'm not making a comparison. I am stating that the product can be made cheaper. The ingredients are available in bulk from refineries of terrestrial and oceanic plants. Perhaps it is the case that Grow More buys these in larger quantities and hence cheaper. Use the information as you wish.
Richard, I'd truly appreciate to know the suppliers of raw materials, especially the certified organically-processed melaleuca oil. We buy our pre-processed materials in bulk all over the planet, the cheapest we can get to help reduce prices... the most expensive so far is melaleuca and we are starting a process of feasibility of raising our own melaleuca crops to lower the prices.

From eight years of introduction and trials (from a different company), we haven't changed much our prices because we are fossil-fuel free, and are only affected by the shipping and processing energy prices. From eight years ago, the oil prices have a net increase, sending the conventional petroleum-derived fungicides and insecticides to within our mostly unaffected price range per potency (computation based on total price used per unit of land, AZ41 versus other conventional inputs to do the same job). And most of all, being a gateway to organic growing or having pesticide-free products is a major advantage to small start-up companies like us.

Some fungicides are more expensive than us, comparing fungicide versus AZ41 in grapes. But grapes has other inputs such as nematicides and insecticides.

With raisin grapes for example, we usually compare total use of fertilizers, fungicides, nematicides, insecticides per unit acre farmed versus fertilizers plus AZ41. Then we also compare revenues, yield vs yield, and final pricing at the packing houses. The raisin products by our users have earned top dollars based on premium quality, and so much more if our grower is in the CCOF program.

We can't openly publish farmers personal data but suffice it to say that they have been repeat customers and are very satisfied with the overall bottom line performance of AZ41. That is why we have also purchased a 20-acre farm parcel in Visalia, for our test and show case and can have published data sometime next year where we can show real numbers.

We have recently penetrated blueberry growers in California. The initial trials produced bigger berries and excellent control of root rot. So one of our plant nutritionist is assisting a big grower, reformulating the existing blueberry nutrition. That is an information that we cannot share, except on the general idea of how much AZ41 was used.

One of the complaints of some of our farmers is that when they used AZ41 on their vegetables is that they produced oversized lettuce heads, eggplants, tomatoes, zucchinis, gourds, etc., that don't fit with their normal boxes. They now are using bigger sized boxes or are readjusting to lower their fertilizer use. They now get multiple crops of eggplants and peppers.
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Old 03-24-2009, 12:49 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: AZ41 - multi-purpose spray

It truly helps if the products are higher valued, our work would be easier. But consider the fact that bananas grown in tropical countries are often the cheapest valued crop in the tropics, and yet a major multinational company in the Philippines is using AZ41 regularly on their bananas. If the price of AZ41 cannot justify the increased revenue, then they would have stopped using it a long time ago. It is the same with the major pineapple producer of Australia, if the cost do not justify the benefits, then they would have stopped using the product. These are companies with full-blown agronomy and horticultural departments to look into these. These are the companies that don't use products without field trials. In fact getting them to do just the initial trial was very hard. But finally they kept an open mind and tried it scientifically, compared it with their existing conventional products, and have concluded based on benefits versus cost analysis to order our products regularly. This is the same with many other farmers and users that were brave enough to try it out and compared their bottom line. As for us hobbyists, it is encouraged that we test it first as directed.

We are also targeting even lower valued crops that have problems and can make a case of price versus benefits. In the US Crops for now, the higher valued crops are fewer but they are an easier market to penetrate.

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Old 03-24-2009, 01:04 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: AZ41 - multi-purpose spray

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Harvey,
I think you missed this post:
No, I did not miss the post, Richard. You seem to like to play games with words and seem to imply that you can come up with the same product from a couple of Grow More products, but you won't list them. Do they contain the same ingredients (not just the same analysis)?

Why do you refuse to list the Grow More products you refer to?

You seem to be missing the point in a significant way. If you don't have something that you can compare results to, you have no basis to judge the price of another product.

Seriously, Richard, quit playing games.

Harvey
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Old 03-24-2009, 01:13 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: AZ41 - multi-purpose spray

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Richard, I'd truly appreciate to know the suppliers of raw materials, especially the certified organically-processed melaleuca oil.
Joe, I do not know what all the plant sources are for the lignosulfate and EDTA chelates available as base liquid components from Grow More. I do know that they are approved for certified organic farming in California. I also know that some of them are refined kelp extract. Finally, these chelates can become invalid for Calif. certified organic if certain compounds are added -- for example, Urea Nitrate.
My knowledge of all this comes from working on a new product with Grow More targeted at the hydroponic industry. It will be 9 to 18 months before we begin manufacturing.
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Old 03-24-2009, 01:14 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: AZ41 - multi-purpose spray

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SaltyDad,

We noted that it is INCOMPATIBLE with copper-based products and AZ41 itself has no significant amount of copper to cause havoc on aquatic life. AZ41 has only trace contents in the ppm region, then you dilute it 250 to 1000 times .
We recommend NOT to mix any copper containing product during the spraying because it can render both products, AZ41 and the copper-based product, ineffective.

One excellent property of AZ41 is that it has sticker properties because of its saponnins, a natural surfactant that breaks the surface tension of water and is able to wet even between the "hairs" of tomatoes and eggplants. Having a sticker property, you can mix it with other foliar fertilizers at the same time and there is no need for you to add sticker chemicals. It will then be absorbed by the plants quickly, like if you apply them 2 to 4 hours ahead of the rain, and the plant stomates are open, then, even if it rains afterwards, there is no need to worry as it has been absorbed, together with the foliar fertilizers that you mix together with it.

Most foliar fertilizers have only traces of copper, so it is not a problem mixing with other foliar fertilizers. What AZ41 is incompatible with are copper hydroxide such as Kocide, and copper sulfate such as those of the blue-colored fungicides. It would render the solution ineffective if you mix them together.


Joe
Joe:
I have that Asian Pear which were attacked by Fireblight last year and I treated it with copper sulfate when it was dormant and applied again when the buds started showing. But I used also the AZ41 a couple of times.
And I did not see any wilting of new buds.
I was going to say that AZ41 helps but it maybe too soon to say.
Cooper sulfate did not eradicate the fireblight last year because the symptoms were there still although less excessive.
What I did not know is that AZ41 may have help to eradicate fire blight.
Or is it too soon to tell. My Asian Pears starting to bloom and form leaves at this time.

Benny
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Old 03-24-2009, 01:20 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: AZ41 - multi-purpose spray

Benny, last year was a year with low pressure for flreblight as we didn't have any spring rains in our (yours, Joe's, mine) area. With the rains we had this past weekend and also a couple of weeks ago, commercial pear growers in my area have been needing to spray more and I would expect your threat of fireblight in 2009 to be higher than in 2008. I didn't spray any of my trees for anything in 2008 and had very little fireblight or peach leaf curl. The lack of rain obviously wasn't so good for the water supplies for the state, though.

I only have two pear trees left, down from about 800 trees 10 years ago. Fireblight was a major problem, only behind codling moths and low commodity prices.

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Old 03-24-2009, 01:36 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: AZ41 - multi-purpose spray

Thanks for the info Harvey. What I am driving at is if AZ41 can and will help to cure Fireblight? As it stands now, I don't have the symtoms and may have helped my pears to eradicate it by AZ41 as an added bonus?
But it is too soon to tell. But so far it has no symtoms.
Sorry to hear your pears demise. That's a lot plants you missed.
And as Joe said, as a hobbyist, why not try for experience if it will work.
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Old 03-24-2009, 01:39 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: AZ41 - multi-purpose spray

Benny, I don't miss the pears. I kept one of the original trees, perhaps about 100 years old now. I put in their place the chestnut orchard which has much fewer pests and more profits.

With your encouragement the other day, I finally mixed up some AZ41 yesterday and sprayed it on several of my hobby plants. I did have some scale on a couple of citrus plants (new problem for me), so it was a good time to give it a try anyways.

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Old 03-24-2009, 01:42 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: AZ41 - multi-purpose spray

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Joe, I do not know what all the plant sources are for the lignosulfate and EDTA chelates available as base liquid components from Grow More. I do know that they are approved for certified organic farming in California. I also know that some of them are refined kelp extract. Finally, these chelates can become invalid for Calif. certified organic if certain compounds are added -- for example, Urea Nitrate.
My knowledge of all this comes from working on a new product with Grow More targeted at the hydroponic industry. It will be 9 to 18 months before we begin manufacturing.
We could be nice complimentary products. We will take care about the plant protection part and supplemental nutrition and your products can take care of the complete nutrition portion. The key is to reduce the total amount of water in the products. We have gone to the lowest content of water possible to maintain the consistency of our product in liquid form and still 100% soluble in water and having sticker property. We anticipate mixing with other products and so we keep in mind to have the sticker property that you don't need to have in your product.

One of our forthcoming products called AZFrost will also be using the Kelp and other algae derived compounds for use during winter season on citruses.
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Old 03-24-2009, 01:50 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Default Re: AZ41 - multi-purpose spray

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Joe:
I have that Asian Pear which were attacked by Fireblight last year and I treated it with copper sulfate when it was dormant and applied again when the buds started showing. But I used also the AZ41 a couple of times.
And I did not see any wilting of new buds.
I was going to say that AZ41 helps but it maybe too soon to say.
Cooper sulfate did not eradicate the fireblight last year because the symptoms were there still although less excessive.
What I did not know is that AZ41 may have help to eradicate fire blight.
Or is it too soon to tell. My Asian Pears starting to bloom and form leaves at this time.

Benny

Benny,

AZ41 has bactericidal properties so it could help eradicate fireblight. One of the problems of AZ41 is that it is oil-based, primarily low chain oils for complete solubility with water. Being oil, it may damage the bloom and make it unattractive for pollinators, so we don't recommend spraying at peak bloom (usually at 50% opened flowers).

As long as you apply copper sulfate four hours after spraying AZ41 or apply AZ41 a full day after copper sulfate, there should be no problems. You should apply copper sulfate spray directly unto the blooms of apples and pears to minimize fireblight. We recommend spraying of AZ41 after petal fall or 15 days after peak bloom whichever comes first. I will do formal trial with AZ41 directly on the apple blooms and see what happens.

It is the same with citruses. Don't spray AZ41 when you have a lot of citrus flowers open. Wait until most petals have fallen before resuming the spraying. The idea is not to discourage bees and other pollinators during peak blooms. Although the pollinators will easily escape sprays, it may discourage them from pollinating your crops.

We are also developing a product that will take care of codling moth of apples and asian pears. Just PM me if you have codling moth problems.



Regards,

Joe
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Old 03-24-2009, 01:52 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: AZ41 - multi-purpose spray

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We could be nice complimentary products.
Interesting ... My product will be for hydroponic injector systems and not foliar spray.
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Old 03-24-2009, 02:16 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Default Re: AZ41 - multi-purpose spray

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Interesting ... My product will be for hydroponic injector systems and not foliar spray.
Our product can take care of root related pest and disease problems. Most common problems of hydroponics especially in greenhouses are mites, aphids, thrips, powdery mildew, bunch rots on fruits, and these can penetrate even the most secure greenhouses or screenhouses. That is when you would need our product to take care of the exposed plant parts and under those conditions, these tiny pests would proliferate without any plant protection. Unless you are growing completely submerge aquatic plant crops, then you wouldn't need our product.

Our product can be piped unto the tubes leading up to misting setup over the hydroponically grown plants to automatically spray every 15 days or month or so, depending on disease and insect pressure. We have some users doing such with their special off-season tomatoes, and he doesn't need a screenhouse nor a greenhouse, just the transparent roof to keep out the rains, and he's making a killing with his off-season tomatoes. And if such a setup is done, there is minimal labor cost and improve application, reducing the cost of using AZ41.
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Old 03-24-2009, 02:58 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: AZ41 - multi-purpose spray

I'd be glad to know how much is the total cost of using combination of other organic based products that would be as effective as AZ41 when it comes to use as organic insecticide, fungicide, nematicide, and can offer supplemental nutrition and at the same time enhance plant's immunity.

I know the total cost of using conventional inputs in some conventional farms and that AZ41 is at par or cheaper than these other inputs. When it comes to CCOF farms, we are the cheapest by far to produce high quality crop products. You would have to use a combination of many other organic products and more of them to achieve the same results, and the total costs are often not justifiable so farmers are not often using such amount to achieve blemish-free crops, and the organic farmer has to market sub-par crops. Spinosad for example and other bacterial-based products used to control insects require re-entry time after application and ours do not.

It even has come to point of compromise, and such lobbying efforts allowed exemption of using up to 10% inorganic or synthesized products when organic farming. You don't need to compromise into this exemption if you use AZ41. Well, we could easily boost our nutrition to 10% inorganic fertilizers and still satisfy requirements as organically approved farm inputs, but we don't need to resort into that. We can let the purists be pure in their organic pursuit, and we can still make the conventional farmers profitable and offer safer choices for their workers. The product is perfectly safe indoors as well, especially for hobbyists who value safety over quality, and we made it possible for farmers and hobbyists to achieve both.

And so far we found no organic based hydroponic products with all the plant protection and other beneficial properties that AZ41 has.
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Old 03-24-2009, 08:56 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Default Re: AZ41 - multi-purpose spray

Harvey:
Joe's experience with AZ41 with scales are very promising. He used to have scale infestation before and at this time he said that he can't see any. He made have cured them. He even asked me if I had scale problems and I said no. He thought that he may have gotten those from me now he thought he got it from somewhere else.
Also, fortunately I don't have coddling moth problem. Only aphids and powdery mildew. But in mortal proportion. But at least now, I can breath easily for I don't see a single one of them and the buds and flowers of all my plants are beautiful and healthy looking. I know I will have a better harvest this year.
I am glad we have Joe to the rescue.
I am about to go berserk just how I was going to combat those pests.
You ought to see my Italian fruit tree a mature one at least 20 feet tall. You would think that the whole tree was painted black and the surrounding soil was full of black fallen leaves. Consequently, the trees close to it was infected also. One of them was my Fuji's. I was so mad I cut the Italian prune drastically and grafted to it some French prunes, Sweet prunes and the Tachima all Joe gave me. But I had left many side branches of the Italian prunes in reachable height and that's what I am talking about. The flowers and the leaves are all healthy looking now. Not a sign of black sooty mold. I looked at the Internet that sooty mold is a byproduct of other infestation such as aphids. And I had millions of them crawling one on top each other for every leaf of that tree. Now, those branches that I grafted have flowers now and so I can taste their fruit this summer.
I am also beginning to use AZ41 to combat soil harmful organisms. I am adding AZ41 whenever I transplant my bananas and other important special plants.
Remember I transplanted to the ground my senorita corm at my pergola plat what's left of it after I discovered its rot? Well, if the AZ41 can resuscitate my corm into living again, then I'd say the AZ41 has a miracle properties. But I would not count on it cause I think that corm is a goner.
Thanks a million Joe just as always.
PS: All of my transplanted plants are thriving and vigorous as well.
And I was able to talk to my neighbors that I cut their trees next to mine at 8 feet level as oppose to 20 feet. Now my fruit trees can see sunshine.
What a wonderful world!
And my wife don't lock me outside anymore! But with a price.
Benny
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Old 03-24-2009, 09:08 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Default Re: AZ41 - multi-purpose spray

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You seem to be missing the point in a significant way. If you don't have something that you can compare results to, you have no basis to judge the price of another product.
Harvey,
I have spent the last 10 years studying the plant science and ag co-op literature in crop nutrition. I have also spent the last 3 years studying the specifications of 100's (maybe a few 1000) nutrient products and the components that manufacturers use to produce them. Consequently, when I read the chemical analysis of a nutrient product, I recognize the base constituents and their costs that have been used to make them just as you would recognize your son as he stands in front of you.

You are thinking in what I would term "retail mode". Consider the various refining industries, for example petroleum. They do not have product names in the retail sense for the base distillates they produce, nor do they post them on the internet. However, if you pick up a chemical trade magazine you'll find (for example) people debating the merits and demerits of ethylene packages from various refineries.
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Old 03-24-2009, 09:49 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Default Re: AZ41 - multi-purpose spray

Richard, you don't have any basis to classify my mode of thinking. You're such a genius that you read minds as well???

I've purchased large volumes of farm chemicals and fertilizers for 15 years and receive many trade publications. I've read of and tried many products based on claims, sometimes not supported. Some have said they perform as well as or better than another product, but have not.

You're still playing games and wasting my time. Put up a product for me to try.

Joe, are you going to offer AZ41 in smaller containers than the 2 liter bottle presently on your web site so that hobbyists can try it at a more reasonable cost? I believe 2 liters is more than many hobbyists would need.
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Old 03-24-2009, 10:35 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Joy Re: AZ41 - multi-purpose spray

Joe:
On second note:
I used to see some white flies flying around when I sprayed AZ41 just 3 weeks ago. I just ignored them.
Now I don't see a single one flying around.
Could it be again a cure for it?
I just wonder.
Anyways, white flies were my mortal enemy with my tomatoes. I just can't see any hope to kill them such that I almost don't want to grow tomatoes any more. White flies were just too many and I could not find any cure. I've used malathion, oil based chemicals, soap, etc...but no chance.
Now I don't see them flying anymore. Not one.

Benny
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Last edited by bencelest : 03-24-2009 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 03-24-2009, 10:52 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Default Re: AZ41 - multi-purpose spray

I am also beginning to think that your product maybe in DANGER Joe. Your product maybe so good that the other Giant companies who manipulated the bottled chemicals for so long on the stores may act accordingly. They may lose millions if not billions of sale if your product becomes known to the public. I think they hired chemists so their products have to use time and again so we buy them all the time. And that's more money to them.
Yours as you say, can be use only once a month and one tabspn per gallon of water.
This is just my thought.
Just as I thought that the candy companies have added so much sugar in the US made candies, cakes and so on and add more salt to chips and so on so that US population becomes obese so the hospitals, doctors can have more patients. You know if you are fat, you are susceptible to many ailments not counting physical.
Just my thought.........Because in the Orient candies and other snacks are not that sweet or salty and the population are not that fat in general. But of course, food resources are a problem too there.
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Old 03-24-2009, 12:44 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Default Re: AZ41 - multi-purpose spray

Benny,

We actually had very tempting offer from one of the prominent oil companies, and also offer from some foreign government cabinet members. We are postponing the meetings with them weighing benefits to mankind and our own retirement benefits. I love to do more and be creative by developing better and safer products when we get more earnings to plow back into research. My love of tinkering will be over if the board decided to have us bought out by another company. One oil company, I know would love to shelve our product, just like you suspect and impose the patent rules for those who attempt to produce the next generation of products based on this one. Another wanted to profit for themselves, by buying us early, on the cheap, and then perhaps selling us off to another company for a profit. There is no assurance that mankind will benefit from safer products that we developed. That is also why I have convinced the board to extend arms to hobbyists. Been looking for a long time for this kind of product, now that it is here, I wanted to share the news. We will be working hard to make it even cheaper, but that takes time if you want to process the expensive raw materials.

Joe

Quote:
Originally Posted by bencelest View Post
I am also beginning to think that your product maybe in DANGER Joe. Your product maybe so good that the other Giant companies who manipulated the bottled chemicals for so long on the stores may act accordingly. They may lose millions if not billions of sale if your product becomes known to the public. I think they hired chemists so their products have to use time and again so we buy them all the time. And that's more money to them.
Yours as you say, can be use only once a month and one tabspn per gallon of water.
This is just my thought.
Just as I thought that the candy companies have added so much sugar in the US made candies, cakes and so on and add more salt to chips and so on so that US population becomes obese so the hospitals, doctors can have more patients. You know if you are fat, you are susceptible to many ailments not counting physical.
Just my thought.........Because in the Orient candies and other snacks are not that sweet or salty and the population are not that fat in general. But of course, food resources are a problem too there.
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